Gruntle

Well, I haven't really looked at it in detail ingame so I'm not a 100% certain that this is how it will pan out. I ran with 2/2 Imp WW for a while when I was using a 47/14 fury/prot build, and it seemed like I got a little bit less collisions, but I guess one should do some Blasted lands testing to really check it.

 

Bronwyn

I'll do exactly that in about an hour and will (hopefully) be able to post some combat logs here.

OK, here's the results. Testenvironment was a blasted lands servant, makro with a 3 BT/2 WW cycle and ~40ms Ping.

31:37.921 Bloodthirst
31:39.500 Whirlwind
31:44.125 Bloodthirst
31:48.625 Whirlwind
31:50.250 Bloodthirst

31:56.390 Bloodthirst (theoretical BT: 55.92 --> Loss: 0.47s)
31:57.953 Whirlwind
32:02.515 Bloodthirst
32:07.125 Whirlwind
32:08.750 Bloodthirst

32:14.875 Bloodthirst (theoretical BT: 13.92 --> overall loss: 0.95s)
32:16.390 Whirlwind
32:21.015 Bloodthirst
32:25.531 Whirlwind
32:27.250 Bloodthirst

32:33.406 Bloodthirst (theoretical BT: 31.92 --> overall loss: 1.48s)
32:34.937 Whirlwind
32:39.468 Bloodthirst
32:44.031 Whirlwind
32:45.609 Bloodthirst

32:51.734 Bloodthirst (theoretical BT: 49.92 --> overall loss: 1.81s)
32:53.312 Whirlwind
32:57.828 Bloodthirst
33:02.453 Whirlwind
33:04.015 Bloodthirst

33:10.203 Bloodthirst (theoretical BT: 07.92 --> overall loss: 2.28s)
33:11.640 Whirlwind
33:16.468 Bloodthirst
33:20.750 Whirlwind
33:22.609 Bloodthirst

33:28.750 Bloodthirst (theoretical BT: 25.92 --> overall loss: 2.83s)
33:30.328 Whirlwind
33:34.875 Bloodthirst
33:39.515 Whirlwind
33:41.046 Bloodthirst

33:47.171 Bloodthirst (theoretical BT: 43.92 --> overall loss: 3.25s)
33:48.765 Whirlwind
33:53.312 Bloodthirst
33:57.921 Whirlwind
33:59.437 Bloodthirst

It seems that even with a very low ping of 40, I lose 0.5 seconds per Cycle. I don't know how much this increases with - say - a ping of 150. However, even with 40 we seem to be looking at 10 seconds lost in a Brutallus fight (with 20 cycles in 6 minutes).

More importantly, if you look closely, you will notice that Whirlwind doesn't seem to influence the timings at all (1/2 imp. ww was used):

31:37.921 Bloodthirst
31:39.500 Whirlwind
31:44.125 Bloodthirst (unaffected by ww lag --> 0.2 s late)
31:48.625 Whirlwind (9.125 sec after first ww)
31:50.250 Bloodthirst (affected by possible ww lag --> 0.13 s late)

http://www.dkpsigs.com/sigs/Alleria/79591.jpg

 

Vaeltaja

I had a discussion of Season four gear versus Hyjal and Black Temple DPS gear at EU Warrior forums but it just generally lead into flaming and terrible arguements. Im not sure if this the right place to ask for tips but couldnt come up with a better choise than EJ and this thread, sorry if i did break the forum policy.

I raid as 33/28 and usually the only group buff i get is an Enchantment Shaman, my guild is at 1/6 Sunwell at the moment and working on Brutallus, which pretty much leads me into trying to find ways to increase my DPS. I have access to all the PvP gear but however ive been unlucky with few items such as Bracers of Eradictation, Helm of the Illidari Shatterer and Grips of Silent Justice. Our Rogues tend to get Hit items and Leather as priority so i wont be seeing any items such as Choker of Endless Nightmares and Cursed Vision of Sargeras for a while.

Heres my Armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory

Thing here is that im not huge fun of spreadsheets and such, i do understand that they should work in theory but i still prefer to listen what other people have to say.

So heres few questions to more experienced Warriors with better knowledge of the class and theorycraft.

- Should i use S4 Helm and Chest over T6 with the cost of losing the 4/8 set bonus?

- Should i replace Cataclycm's Edge with S4 Sword?

- Should i use Leggings of Divine Retribution over S4 even though they pull my Hit and crit quite low?

- Choker of Serrated Blades vs S4 neck

- Is Solarian's Sapphire really worth using over Tsunami Talisman in a 5 melee group considering how much crit i lose and my hit dropping even further away from the cap.

Personally im leaning into using doing pretty much all of the changes i mentioned but the people i talked to all had quite different opinions over the matter.

Cheers

Edit: Feel free to delete this one, did a double post which i got warned off already but im too tired to figure out where the delete button is, sorry.

 

DarkS

Vaeltaja, even if you aren't a spreadsheets fan, they will answer all your questions. Try Grim13's one. I'm pretty sure you'll find your answers.

The main problem with PvP gear is the excessive itemstat points wasted in Stamina and Resilience. But if the itemlevel of the PvP part is high enough (S4 in example) then you could prefer it over your PvE alternative. Spreadsheet will show you this.

 

Gruntle

Yeah, when I started to look closer at the cycle I kind of realised that you won't save anything by having 2/2 Imp. WW. Since you're anyway losing 0.1-0.2 per BT the cycle is already thrown off by half a sec when you get to the second WW, which gives the needed slack in the cycle. Thanks for testing it out properly!

 

Daronsk

Now heres something I don't see theorycrafted much but I'm trying to get some information on: 33/28 DW BF build. Somewhere in the various posts on warrior threads on EJ their was a raid leader asking about the viability of this build as glaives were going to get passed down to his arms warrior at some point. However, how this build would gear was never explained and seems a fair bit more complicated then first appears. Personally, I was testing it out last night on Brutallis and managed to pull just above 2K dps where as in a traditional fury spec(my main spec) I'm sitting around 2300-2500 dps depending on group comp. So obviously its viable and the choice is clear if your min/maxing RDPS as we have several other rogues and hunters over the 2K mark.

Heres where it gets interesting though...
Conventional fury wisdom says to stack Ap/Arp/crit over hit and haste for the most part because BT/WW make up a significant amount of our damage in that spec. In a DW/BF spec though mortal strike is hitting like a wimp and scales quite badly, and the main source of damage seems to be your white attacks/Heroic strike. So this raises the question: Should 33/28 be geared as a fury spec or as a Rogue spec? From what I gather rogues stack hit/haste to maximize CP procs and sword spec procs. This build does have sword spec and the procs from it are great way to feed the heroic strike spam, but it lacks Combat Potency(unless you think the extra rage is functioning in a similar manner to the extra energy gained).

So how do you gear this spec I ask to those theorycrafters on this board. Do you favor pieces with hit/haste over crit/Str? And without a spreadsheet covering this spec(or if their is one that would be a godsend) how do you judge relative item values?

Link to the WWS from last night(I was 33/28 for brut and felmyst but 17/44 for Kalecgos, fyi):
Wow Web Stats

Link to the build I was running:
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator

Link to my armory(so you can see the gear I'm running with):
The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Dheez

Hey guys, I would appreciate some insight on a build that I am currently working on. I am a 2H sword/arms-33/28/MS warrior that mostly PVE's. I am wondering what would best help my overall DPS in 25 man raids and right now I am torn between 2 different ways to allocate my stats. Roughly heres where I am at:

1850 AP
35% Crit
Capped Hit
4% Expertise (if i use shard of contempt)
200 ignore armor

or


2150+ AP
30% Crit
Capped Hit
4% Expertise (if i use shard of contempt)
200 ignore armor

Also since I swing pretty slow would Trinkets with a USE ability rather then a CHANCE ON HIT be more benificial to me? If I am right are [Shard of Contempt] [Hourglass of the Unraveller] still worth using?

thank you

 

• landsoul

@ Daronsk

If you are spamming HS, the weight-value of hit decreases at a rate related to how much you use heroic strike. Your strongest stats will probably be ArP/ExP following Crit following STR/Haste. The only difference between the two specs is the devalue of STR/AP. So everything would stay the same, except STR/AP goes down. As far as stat weights go anyways.

 

ManatArms

Maybe i can pry some advice from some Fury warriors here that have been doing this longer then 3 months.

I've recently gone from Prot from Fury, and am in the process of regearing myself for Sunwell raiding. The problem therein lies with my DPS, which is honestly quite subpar in terms of my gear and the level of raiding i'm in.

Let me take last night in Hyjal for example. I ran with a 2 rogue, Enhance bot+Blood Frenzy Bot group, one blessing (salv), and the normal food+weapon buffs. The WWS is blocked in school atm, but I'll venture to assume that i pulled out around 900 average for the 2 hour run.


I'm following the BT, WW, HS rotations alternating between my shouts during the GCD's, and for the life of me i can't understand how i'm doing so poor, considering i've been rage starved on boss fights MAYBE twice in a 2 week period, and had one relatively poor Flurry streak on Bloodboil. Being as we're down to 2 paladins, i'm often running only might or salv, with Kings being the guilty pleasure.

I'm doing my best to radify the situation just based on guild suggestion, but would love some feedback from more warriors about this issue.

 

• Gink

Bit silly question, but you never know.. You aren't putting any weapon buffs on your main-hand are you? Because doing that, and losing out on Windfury, would mean a big hit to your DPS.
Your gear looks fine so I wouldn't say that's the problem.

Other than that, it's hard to make any comments without a WWS.

Gink

 

ManatArms

Heavens no.

I'm using the weightstones on my offhand(MV is blunt apparently -.o) and never have to worry about not having a shammy, so at least that issue is taken care of.

I'll upload one of my better outings when i get home, i feel that using a parse where i only had salv as a blessing won't really argue against my poor dps.

 

ManatArms

Managed to dig up a few parses today,

Here we have our 9/10 run
WWS Loading...

Though this might not be that great, considering i was only in for Council, with one Hero and Reckless to show for it.

9/9, where i ended 9th overall; no might, only kings yet again.
Wow Web Stats

 

Liar

Your gear seems to be a mix between T5 gear, badge gear and one or two BT/SW pieces so I am not sure how much DPS you can expect from that. Have you tried plugging your gear into one of the available spreadsheets and check what DPS you should expect?
That said, work on some badge gear pieces to replace your T4/T5 pieces (again, a sheet helps here since you can just plug in a piece and see if it's a big upgrade or not).

Also, make sure you don't clip your cooldowns. BT/WW immediately when possible, then do the other stuff like shouts and keeping rampage up. Your WWS shows that you did less BTs than you could have ideally over the full duration. Is that because you were clipping them or holding back too much? Also, I checked Mother and saw you did only 4 executes and neither crit even though you used Recklessness that fight. What gives?

Protection Warrior PvP video | Unexpected TankPoints error

 

ManatArms

I'll have the very occasional rage starve when flurry decides to go limp on me, and my tanking reflexes are still spamming HS whenever possible. Last night i really layed off spamming that one too much and just followed with a smother rotation.


As for that mother shot, I've been in the habit of late of timing Reck with Heroism, not as much with Execute. something that's easily remedied however,

 

• Gink

You should have a talk with your Shaman about Heroism timing if it's the usual thing that he pops it out of Execute range. You really want Heroism, Recklessness and Execute-range at the same time.
The optimal timing for Heroism is to pop it somewhere between 35% and 20% boss health, depending on boss abilities. (Right before Najentus Shield, or Supremus kite phase is bad timing)
Have him time it to 45 seconds before the boss hits the deck, or ask him to wait until you call it out, if you think you can time it better. You want it to run out just as the boss dies.

Gink

 

mulinexman

Hi there,

recently I switched from fury to slam and am asking myself now if at all, in wich situation haste posions would provide a dps increase. Regarding that, I did some calculations how haste would affect my dps cycle and this was the result:

2,5 sec weaponspeed:
0,00 - 0,00 - Auto attack
0,00 - 0,00 - Slam begins, GCD begins
0,50 - 0,50 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
1,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
1,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
3,00 - 2,50 - Autoattack
3,00 - 0,00 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins
3,50 - 0,50 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
4,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
4,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
6,00 - 2,50 - Autoattack
6,00 - 0,00 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins
6,50 - 0,50 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
7,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
7,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
9,00 - 2,50 - Autoattack
9,00 - 0,00 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins

2,23 sec weaponspeed:
0,00 - 0,00 - Auto attack
0,00 - 0,00 - Slam begins, GCD begins
0,50 - 0,50 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
1,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
1,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
2,23 - 2,23 - Autoattack
3,00 - 0,27 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins
3,50 - 0,77 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
4,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
4,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
5,73 - 2,23 - Autoattack
6,00 - 0,27 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins
6,50 - 0,77 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
7,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
7,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
8,73 - 2,23 - Autoattack
9,00 - 0,27 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins

1,79 sec weaponspeed:
0,00 - 0,00 - Auto attack
0,00 - 0,00 - Slam begins, GCD begins
0,50 - 0,50 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
1,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
1,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
1,79 - 1,79 - Autoattack
3,00 - 0,71 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins
3,50 - 1,21 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
4,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
4,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
5,29 - 1,79 - Autoattack
6,00 - 0,71 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins
6,50 - 1,21 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
7,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
7,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
8,29 - 1,79 - Autoattack
9,00 - 0,71 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins

1,49 sec weaponspeed:
0,00 - 0,00 - Auto attack
0,00 - 0,00 - Slam begins, GCD begins
0,50 - 0,50 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
1,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
1,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
1,99 - 1,49 - Autoattack
3,00 - 1,01 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins
3,48 - 1,49 - Auto attack
3,50 - 0,02 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
4,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
4,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
4,99 - 1,49 - Autoattack
6,00 - 1,01 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins
6,48 - 1,49 - Autoattack
6,50 - 1,51 - Slam ends, swing timer resets
7,50 - 1,00 - GCD ends
7,50 - 1,00 - MS/WW, GCD begins
7,99 - 1,49 - Autoattack
9,00 - 1,01 - GCD ends, Slam begins, GCD begins

This is just theoretical, the human reaction time nor any lag was counted in.
My main issue with that is, why the cycle isn't altered even with a 1,79 sec weaponspeed (the 1,49 was just trying around) - everywhere I read that the 4x slam, 2x ms, 1x ww cycle isn't working with a weaponspeed of under 2,5 seconds, so what do I forget?

And back to the main question: If I have a 100% flurry uptime (again, theoretical), would haste potions be viable in any situation [e.g. with BL, with drums, with BL & drums ...]?

EDIT: The first number is real-time, the 2nd one is swing-time.

 

Gruntle

Well, it's perfectly possible to continue with the cycle even with a sub-2.5 second swing speed. The problem is that you're not swinging faster than 2.5 sec anyway since the swing timer is reset every time you slam and the gcd is forcing you to slam too late in each swing. This is clearly visible in your cycles, since they are all the same total length (9 seconds). If you setup the cycle for a 3.5 sec swing time, you'll see that exactly the same cycle will take you 12 sec. So going from 3.5 sec swing speed to 2.5 sec means that you increase your dps by ~33%, but going from 2.5 sec to 1.79 sec results in no dps increase at all. So there is no value in haste beyond getting to 2.5 sec if you're adamant on staying with the 4 slam, 2MS, 1 WW cycle. With enough haste it may well be worth to skip a few slams and just prioritize MS/WW instead.

 

Inrak

This is probably going to get in me in trouble, but I'm not a good enough theorycrafter to not ask.

Currently, my human warrior is using Dragonstrike + Talon of Azshara.
Is it worth the mats and time to Craft a second dragonstrike ? Or does it make more sense to grab the badge fist weapons?

I did search the forum for this answer, but I can't seem to find one to this specific question.
I'd appreciate any response.

*** edit ****

annnndddd I'm a moron, I found it after scouring every page with warrior and dps in it. sorry

 

Kjekssmulen

From todays SSC

 

mokg

Daronsk,
I've been using a 33/28 dw spec for a couple weeks now. It performs great but I'm unsure if it's worth it without glaives. Last week I did 2205 dps on brut while I forgot to demonslaying elixir(had no elixir/flask buff at all) and over 1900 on felmyst. This week I did over 1900 on M'uru and 2.3k on KJ. There's definitely room for improvement as I'm lazy, and don't really care about maximizing myself at this point.

 

Froststone

Hi all,

I'm having a problem with my current dps build. I can't seem to generate enuf dps about 500 to 520 dps in raid. Need serious advise on my char as I felt I could not advance much ZA and onwards.

My armory is as follow: The World of Warcraft Armory

Thank you.

 

Kjekssmulen

change specc to 17/44 cookiecutter. What rotations you use?

 

Froststone

Hi Kjekssmulen,

My current rotation is Blood Rage --> Intercept --> Demo Shout --> Blood Thirst --> Normal Attack --> Hamstring -->
(if rage reaches max), Heroic Strike --> Blood Thirst --> Pummel --> Demo Shout to refresh or
(if rage still not max yet) Normal attack --> Blood Thirst --> Hamstring --> Pummel --> Normal attack/Demo Shout to refresh

I tried not to use WW unless the mob(s) is about below 15% health as I found out several times before, I quickly pull aggro from the off-tank target and the off-tank target failed to regain aggro or the target see me as a higher aggro than the off-tank player. I died most of the time due to this.

 

Barmbul

Pummel? Hamstring?