Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Class Mechanics

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03/10/08, 3:59 AM   #1
xiaoxin21
Don Flamenco
 
No account
Human Mage
 
No WoW Account
[Enhancement Shaman]Yo!? Help me

Read these before asking.

1)Shaman: Enhancement
2)Shaman: Windfury
3)Melee Combat Mechanics

Last edited by xiaoxin21 : 06/18/08 at 5:44 AM.

Offline
Old 03/10/08, 4:37 AM   #2
Littlefinger
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
The easy answer is that Blackout Truncheon is not a good Enhancement weapon no matter what proc it has. The 1.5 speed ruins it pretty much. I'd say you're better off sticking with what you have. And I wouldn't say that's a question that can't be answered elsewhere so as of yet this thread has no meaning.

Offline
Old 03/10/08, 4:39 AM   #3
Myul
Don Flamenco
 
Human Warrior
 
Eredar (EU)
There was allmost exactly the question only one page back with the heroic fist drop with a haste procc.

Just use the tier 3 blacksmithing mace procc on the second page and assume lower results.

And since the truncheon is only a 1.5 speed weapon and has the same dps as your both much slower weapons, it should never be a choice for you.

The "help me please" thread should have his original post updated on a regular basis with all the most important questions that will be mentioned during the time. Are you willing to do that? And it should be started when the wiki project is out, which isn't by now, is it?

A help me please thread shouldn't be the place to ask stupid question that could easily be answered with reading the orginal post of malan wisely. And any other/new question can be placed until the wiki release in the original thread.

Offline
Old 03/10/08, 6:34 AM   #4
xiaoxin21
Don Flamenco
 
No account
Human Mage
 
No WoW Account
Oh, I can update somewhat, I was just following the format of the mage help me please thread(which has no format at all ) as it is the one I am following regularly. People just seek help and get answers hopefully with no updates on main page.

Also the blackout trucheon is like 6-7dps more than my current OH, which is why I asked as it may be more viable with a WF/FB combo.

Maybe I can get a list of FAQs and update the first post?

Last edited by xiaoxin21 : 03/10/08 at 6:57 AM.

Offline
Old 03/11/08, 6:26 PM   #5
Rapparee
Piston Honda
 
Rapparee's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Bloodhoof
Originally Posted by xiaoxin21 View Post
As usual the answer can be found at Yo's Sim, Crazy Shaman's DPS & AEP calculator (c) Yo.
To start off I have a quesion. My current weapon is Resonating Axe - Items - World of Warcraft and Mag'hari Fury Brand - Items - World of Warcraft in offhand. Recently I obtained the Blackout Truncheon - Items - World of Warcraft.
I have beginner level gear.
The World of Warcraft Armory
I put in your stats from the armory. I also put 8str and 4str+4crit in the blackout sockets.
I left the raid-buffs page alone.
I used the dragonstrike proc to simulate the blackout's proc. and got the following results:
resonate+blackout = 1048
maghari+blackout = 1042
resonate+maghari = 1045

The blackout's results are necessarily worse than that since the dragonstrike proc is 212haste, but blackout is just 132.
However, it's pretty obvious that you can use any of those 3 weapons and be roughly the same DPS.

I noticed that you have [Fury] which of course is a must wear item for you. You enchanted it with Crusader. I suggest that if you're so poor that you can't afford mongoose, then being a DPS raider is not something you're cut out for. I am not trying to be mean, but why are you bothering to maximize your DPS, when you can't afford it?

According to Yo's simulator, at your level of gear:
2x Mongoose enchant is worth about 43dps.
2x Crusader is worth 20dps.
Upgrading from Mag'hari to Fury was worth about 41DPS increase for you (i.e. replacing mag'hari with Fury netted 41dps).
You do realize that double mongoose is the same DPS increase that Fury was for you?
Stop being cheap. Spend the gold for proper enchanting. If you don't have the money to raid as DPS, then raid as a healer. Healing is much cheaper, even with mana pots. Also, patch 2.4 should help you out since there will be reasonable gold from 25man raiding. Not sure about the gold available to 10man raiding. But either way, you need to enchant your properly, not this poor man crap that you're pulling.

Your shoulder, cloak, feet, one weapon and legs are all NOT enchanted. This is the true source of your DPS woes.

Offline
Old 03/11/08, 9:26 PM   #6
xiaoxin21
Don Flamenco
 
No account
Human Mage
 
No WoW Account
Rapparee: Thanks for your help. I would enchant mongoose after I get the 2.4 badge items since crusader is vastly cheaper than mongoose, and I don't feel like dropping a mongoose on my green mainhand too. At that point of posting I do not have fury yet. For my other gear, I would enchant once I get epic versions from Karazhan and ZA.

I find the Yo's simulator hard to use, due to the fact that I would have to manually input stats every time I use it,quite tedious especially since I also have to calculate the rating to % each time and add it up too. Is there any 3rd party script that is written that could remember what you keyed the previous time and just auto input for you?

Offline
Old 03/20/08, 7:11 PM   #7
Shegokigo
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Blackrock
I have a question about Yo's Crazy Shaman DPS Simulator

Why is it, that everytime it hit "theorycraft" it gives me different AEP weights if I didn't even change any settings? Which AEP weights do I believe?

Offline
Old 03/20/08, 7:33 PM   #8
vorda
Bald Bull
 
vorda's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Originally Posted by Shegokigo View Post
I have a question about Yo's Crazy Shaman DPS Simulator

Why is it, that everytime it hit "theorycraft" it gives me different AEP weights if I didn't even change any settings? Which AEP weights do I believe?
Run a few long ones and take the average. The sim is as close as possible to a real situation, which is the answer as to why it gives a different result each time.

Offline
Old 03/20/08, 7:40 PM   #9
Shegokigo
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Blackrock
So instead of running 5 "theorycrafts" at 1000hrs

I should do 5 at 5000hrs and average the ratings for my "true AEP weight"? (since trying 10,000hrs pretty much froze up my Firefox everytime)

Offline
Old 03/20/08, 8:22 PM   #10
Xoya
Bald Bull
 
Xoya's Avatar
 
Xoya
Orc Shaman
 
No WoW Account
If you're going to run one with the intent of finding your "true AEP weights", I would recommend leaving your computer on overnight and running Yo's simulator in its own Firefox window with nothing else open. Run it for 100,000 hours, as this accomplishes the same thing as running it 10 times for 10000 hours and averaging the results, and you won't have to babysit it. It's not really freezing your Firefox, it's just running in its own thread so Firefox handles it poorly if you try to do anything else in that Firefox window while it's running. In addition, make sure you're not running WoW while you're doing it, as that really tends to freeze things up.

Basically... do the all-night test as I recommended and you'll have your "true AEP weights" waiting for you in the morning.

United States Offline
Old 04/17/08, 6:50 PM   #11
cloakedling
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Smolderthorn
I am slightly confused by the mechanics of windfury and was hoping that someone could inform me.

Why is it that the damage from dual-windfury greatly exceeds that of the sum of using windfury on each weapon individually?

ie: (sample values)
WF on just main-hand: 100 wf dps
Just off-hand: 60 wf dps
Main-hand & off-hand: 200 wf dps

At first I thought it was just a by-product of increased flurry and ua uptime, but similar results occur even when disabling those talents on Yo's simulator. Any insights into the functioning of windfury would be greatly appreciated.

Offline
Old 04/18/08, 12:02 AM   #12
Corvin.
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Death Knight
 
Zenedar (EU)
Check TTT, section: Windfury Proc Rate.

Offline
Old 04/18/08, 8:41 AM   #13
Daler
Bald Bull
 
Daler's Avatar
 
Undead Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by cloakedling View Post
I am slightly confused by the mechanics of windfury and was hoping that someone could inform me.

Why is it that the damage from dual-windfury greatly exceeds that of the sum of using windfury on each weapon individually?

ie: (sample values)
WF on just main-hand: 100 wf dps
Just off-hand: 60 wf dps
Main-hand & off-hand: 200 wf dps

At first I thought it was just a by-product of increased flurry and ua uptime, but similar results occur even when disabling those talents on Yo's simulator. Any insights into the functioning of windfury would be greatly appreciated.
Let's not make this another thread filled with questions that have been answered elsewhere, shall we?

This, and pretty much everything under the sun about enhancement, has been covered in the new Theorycraft section. Read everything there FIRST, and then make a post here if you still have a question.

United States Offline
Old 04/18/08, 12:29 PM   #14
Toots Hepcat
Care for a jelly baby?
 
Toots Hepcat's Avatar
 
Troll Shaman
 
Llane
Originally Posted by Daler View Post
Let's not make this another thread filled with questions that have been answered elsewhere, shall we?

This, and pretty much everything under the sun about enhancement, has been covered in the new Theorycraft section. Read everything there FIRST, and then make a post here if you still have a question.
Uh, Daler? I see the point of this thread is to explain Theory that's been covered everywhere but is hard to swallow. Let's keep the thrash out of the Theorycraft, allowing those who don't want to repeat themselves to keep their minds on more important tasks.

I, however, am a windbag and love to repeat myself, so here goes.

The reason 2x WF is superior to 1x WF, even though some of your WF attacks are smaller offhand attacks, is simple: when you have WF on one hand, the chance for that one hand to swing is 20%. However, when you put WF on BOTH hands, EACH hand has its proc chance increased to 36%.

So in essence, you're not getting twice the chance to proc WF, you're getting about three times the chance.

What's more, no matter how many hands you put WF on, it now has a 3s cooldown in between procs. That means you'll never hit a 20% proc rate with any weapon slower than 3s -- the first attack after a windfury has a 0% chance to proc. Thus, this tripling of your chance to proc WF actually improves your damage from MH WF procs, too! (The Main Hand has a natural advantage to proccing Windfury, regardless of weapon speed, because Stormstrike always evaluates the main hand first).

Neither of these divergences from the tooltip -- the 3s CD and the 36% chance to proc on either hand -- are documented publicly by Blizzard, but either is easily detectable in any combat log. They've been around since patch 2.1, which I believe is a year old.

You can see this first hand without doing any theory. Get a copy of Recount, then go farm with WF MH and FT OH, then farm with 2x WF on some slow weapons. I guarantee you will see more DPS. And as your gear improves, WF just keeps getting better and better.

Last edited by Toots Hepcat : 04/18/08 at 1:22 PM.

Offline
Old 04/18/08, 7:11 PM   #15
Hotiedraenei
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
Shadowsong
I apologize if this is the wrong spot for this question but didnt see a need to start a new thread just for a issue on YO Simulator.
I am having a problem with getting YO Simulator to give a EP Value for Expertise when I am running the sim for a EP Value. I Have tried the same stats with different amount of time of 1000, 2000, 5000. Also have tried turning off features like the Jewelery SS Might (Scryer) and still not getting a EP value for expertise.

Numbers I have inserted into the sim are the following.
AP 1610, Crit 27.78, Hit 9.58, Haste 2.79, Arm 84, MH 103.0, Del 2.5, MH Ex 53, OH 103.0, Del 2.5, OH Ex 53, Spell Hit 3%, Spell Crit 3.64, Str 257, Agi 300.

Procs and stuff have the following Duel Mongoose, Windfury, Trinkets = Bloodlust Broach, and Shadowsong Panther, Totem Stone breakers, 4-piece set none, Relentless Gem, Earth +Fire, Jeweler SS Pendent of Might (Scryer).

Wondering if I am doing something wrong to get this problem.

Offline
 

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Class Mechanics

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Enhancement Shaman AEP Mod Mordekhuul User Interface and AddOns 1 09/30/07 8:39 PM
[Shaman] Enhancement shaman cloak enchant Spider Class Mechanics 2 09/25/07 11:58 AM
[Shaman]The State of Raiding Enhancement Shaman Ralgarog Class Mechanics 51 06/06/07 2:34 PM
[Shaman] Enhancement and MP5 Khlysti Class Mechanics 20 05/08/07 2:56 PM
Enhancement Shaman vs Resto shaman for healing in TBC? Demlou Public Discussion 4 10/06/06 12:04 PM