[Enhancement Shaman]Yo!? Help me - Page 19

Bellante · 08/20/08, 3:06 AM

Is it purely because it's an early version that you don't just upload a compiled version?

I have no programming skills, but the beauty of Yo's! from a userperspective is that it's easy to use. People who have never compiled a program before will be turned off by this, which is a shame.

If it's intended to be a proper program at some later point when all the testing is done, then just ignore this.

tukez · 08/20/08, 3:41 AM

Originally Posted by Bellante

Is it purely because it's an early version that you don't just upload a compiled version?

I have no programming skills, but the beauty of Yo's! from a userperspective is that it's easy to use. People who have never compiled a program before will be turned off by this, which is a shame.

If it's intended to be a proper program at some later point when all the testing is done, then just ignore this.

There is a compiled Windows version included.

Pitbuller · 08/20/08, 6:37 AM

I test my ep values with Tukez sim. I really shocked when comparing these against YO's sim ep. Ap value is very high. I used exactly same parametres. When I did base value test Both sim's showed same dps with starters values. Tukez sim got better modelling with procs(haste push ppm down with autos) but that can't cause this big difference.
Varianse with Tukez sim is very minimal which save lot of time. No need for multiple runs and calculus avarages.

Any thoughts why Ap/ep number is so different?

Config file used.

Yo's sim EP values:
EP                  value     DPS       test total DPS
ap                  1         0.3407      1835
crit rating         1.88            
hit rating          1.7      
expertise rating    3.33            
haste rating        1.68      
armor ignore        0.34            
spellpower          -            
spellcrit rating    -            
spellhit rating     -           
strength            2.20
agility             1.82
intelligence        -

Tukez sim EP values:
EP                  value     DPS       test total DPS
ap                  1         0.39      1852.55
crit rating         1.62      0.64      1847.57
hit rating          1.48      0.58      1846.47
expertise rating    2.30      0.91      1848.44
haste rating        1.49      0.58      1855.30
armor ignore        0.28      0.11      1846.99
spellpower          0.37      0.14      1843.51
spellcrit rating    0.10      0.04      1836.02
spellhit rating     0.63      0.25      1842.29
strength            2.20
agility             1.57
intelligence        0.03

Edit: Corrected shocks.
Edit: Corrected expertice and spell hit values. Weapon speed was 2.6 with YO's sim also.

tukez · 08/20/08, 9:52 AM

Originally Posted by Pitbuller

I test my ep values with Tukez sim. I really shocked when comparing these against YO's sim ep. Ap value is very high. I used exactly same parametres. When I did base value test Both sim's showed same dps with starters values. Tukez sim got better modelling with procs(haste push ppm down with autos) but that can't cause this big difference.
Varianse with Tukez sim is very minimal which save lot of time. No need for multiple runs and calculus avarages.

Any thoughts why Ap/ep number is so different?

I looked at your armory and noticed that you had some stats a little off. I changed these:

mh speed 2.6->2.8
expertise 21->83 (notice, that it's rating)
spell hit 3.0->0.0 (input the spell hit which shows on your char sheet)

Then your armory profile shows the different talents than config. Maybe that is intended?

I am running Yo's sim currently with the same config. I' tell the results when it's finished. It's been running 17min now, sim time 15000h.

...30min. It's still running. How long does it usually take with 15000h? CPU usage is still high, is it possible it crashed?

tukez · 08/20/08, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Pitbuller

I test my ep values with Tukez sim. I really shocked when comparing these against YO's sim ep. Ap value is very high. I used exactly same parametres. When I did base value test Both sim's showed same dps with starters values. Tukez sim got better modelling with procs(haste push ppm down with autos) but that can't cause this big difference.
Varianse with Tukez sim is very minimal which save lot of time. No need for multiple runs and calculus avarages.

Any thoughts why Ap/ep number is so different?

I can't get Yo's sim finished...anyway, I changed the EP ranges from the config to ap 60, crit 40, hit 40 and it decreased ap value by little amount(crit 1.69 hit 1.55). Different EP ranges might be part of the reason. I suggest using small EP ranges, maybe in size of what one piece of item could change your stats.

Pitbuller · 08/20/08, 12:01 PM

Expertice ep value is bit odd ball. If sim use ratings and you put step range to1-3 then ep value can be 0. I suggest that you change step size to one expertice instead of rating.

eyeofsauron · 08/20/08, 2:11 PM

hi im new here and i have a question.
(somehow i cant post a new thread and coulnt find anything better than to post here, so if its totally wrong, dont judge me)

i know there is a cast sequence macro in the enhancement schaman thread, but i dont like it
i dont want stormstrike in my castsequence, when twisting totems, it irritates me and jou lose 1 second on per makro because jou have 10 sec in the makrpo, but only nine sec for stormstrike cd

is it somehow possible to do a macro with just windfury and grace of air totem in castsequence, so that when i cast windfury, i can cast grace of air direktly after it, but when haveing casted grace of air, to have a cd of 8 secs to cast windfury again?

you would help me very much by answering this

greets gtom austria
EyeofSauron

• Daler · 08/20/08, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by eyeofsauron

hi im new here and i have a question.
(somehow i cant post a new thread and coulnt find anything better than to post here, so if its totally wrong, dont judge me)

i know there is a cast sequence macro in the enhancement schaman thread, but i dont like it
i dont want stormstrike in my castsequence, when twisting totems, it irritates me and jou lose 1 second on per makro because jou have 10 sec in the makrpo, but only nine sec for stormstrike cd

is it somehow possible to do a macro with just windfury and grace of air totem in castsequence, so that when i cast windfury, i can cast grace of air direktly after it, but when haveing casted grace of air, to have a cd of 8 secs to cast windfury again?

you would help me very much by answering this

greets gtom austria
EyeofSauron

/castsequence reset=8 Windfury Totem, Grace of Air Totem

Personally I don't use the reset function since many fights will require me to replant totems sooner than 8 secs (unlucky string of AoE during Council, e.g.). But I do keep the twisting macro separate from SS and Shocks. If I wanted a 1 button class, I'd roll a warlock, set up the drinking bird, and go make a sandwich during boss fights.

eyeofsauron · 08/20/08, 2:35 PM

yeah i got that makro like that, but it doesnt give a cooldown after the grace of air totem, i can instantly cast another wf totem
i just have the problem that, whe n counting an clicking on totems, you dont have the perfect feeling of time, and you could eliminate that by that macro, to play more effective

• Daler · 08/20/08, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by eyeofsauron

yeah i got that makro like that, but it doesnt give a cooldown after the grace of air totem, i can instantly cast another wf totem
i just have the problem that, whe n counting an clicking on totems, you dont have the perfect feeling of time, and you could eliminate that by that macro, to play more effective

While he no longer supports the addon, Disquette's air totem timer provides a simple graphical solution to timing your totems and abilities. It's called DisqoDice, and it's available at Curse.

There are plenty of others that will do the same thing, usually with more bells and whistles. Some selections are in the TTT page, if memory serves.

tukez · 08/21/08, 2:55 PM

How long cooldown do on use trinkets trigger? Is it the same duration as the trinkets buff or something else? I mean the cd when you are not able to use other trinkets. Currently in my sim, it's 15s.

Sydane · 08/21/08, 3:20 PM

The cooldown triggered is the duration of the buff. So an item like [Bladefist's Breadth] triggers a 15 second cooldown on your other trinket whereas [Bloodlust Brooch] triggers a 20 second cooldown.

Killzaid · 08/21/08, 5:43 PM

I have been coming here for a long time but I have never really felt the need to post myself, but now I have 2 question I would like to ask

.
First off, I looted the Clutch of demise from Brutallus this week, it was a tiny upgrade over choker of endless nightmares (166 vs 163ep). However, after running yos simulator again with my updated values, my haste values drastically dropped ( its at 1.64 now while crit is at 2.00) causing clutch of demise to be inferior to the choker.

I think this is due to the fact that I had 4 drums in party enabled in the buffs screen. But my question is: "Is my haste ep value supposed to go this low?" (119haste total now).

My second question is a rather general and maybe somewhat rude question, as Im worried about my personal dps.
As you can see on Wow Web Stats I only got 1638 dps there. I did not have an ideal group (3x rogue +ret pala) but I used demonslaying, 3x haste pot and we had (close to) 100% drum uptime.
I think I should be able to get much higher dps, as my fellow enhancement shaman with slightly superior gear is able to do 2k on brut (in good group ofc). (here is a wws of him Wow Web Stats weeds). So basically my question is: wtf am I doing wrong (I know this is rather rude to ask, but I am really bothered by this lack of personal dps and I cant seem to find a cause besides having terribad fps).
(Some additional info, I was not totemtwisting on that brut kill, just keeping up wf)

I would really appreciate some help on both matters

Lumb · 08/22/08, 6:16 AM

Just to clarify, on Yo's sim should I be inputting expertise or expertise rating. Obviously these are two very different numbers and I don't want to screw item choices up because of it.

On a side note, i'm hoping that once I get t6 boots (meaning I will have 3 parts sunwell T6) I will be able to equip my shiny t6 shoulders again:

1. For the 4 set
2. I should be expertise capped for dodges without my shoulderpads of the stranger, and then I guess that means they would hold less value.

The only way to find out for sure is the sim, I suppose!

Jheherrin · 08/22/08, 6:30 AM

You only need to run the sim once to find out.

If I remember correctly, it will reduce expertise weighting to zero once you are over the cap, so if you put 50 (above exp cap but below exp rating cap) in as expertise and you get a zero weighting for expertise, then it uses expertise rather than expertise rating

Wundorn · 08/22/08, 6:34 AM

Originally Posted by Sydane

The cooldown triggered is the duration of the buff. So an item like [Bladefist's Breadth] triggers a 15 second cooldown on your other trinket whereas [Bloodlust Brooch] triggers a 20 second cooldown.

This is patently false, as a general rule. For example, I can trigger my PvP Trinket immediately after triggering Berserker's Call.

However, many trinkets do share CDs with each other. It's possible that all the ones you're simming have one shared CD, which would make Sydane right, at least for now.

If you look up an item on Thottbot it lists all the other items that share CDs with it. However, I don't vouch for its accuracy.

Sydane · 08/22/08, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Wundorn

This is patently false, as a general rule. For example, I can trigger my PvP Trinket immediately after triggering Berserker's Call.

However, many trinkets do share CDs with each other. It's possible that all the ones you're simming have one shared CD, which would make Sydane right, at least for now.

If you look up an item on Thottbot it lists all the other items that share CDs with it. However, I don't vouch for its accuracy.

It's entirely true, as a general rule. The rare exceptions are a couple of healing trinkets that still stack.

Whether or not totally unrelated non-dps trinkets trigger a cooldown is hardly relevant to a dps simulation. I don't really think anyone is going to simulate if a DPS trinket triggers the cooldown on the Gnomish Poultryizer.

For DPS trinkets, that give an on-use buff like AP, the cooldown triggered on the other DPS trinket, is the length of the buff. It is not a static 15 seconds which is what he said he's been using, although many of those trinkets have 15 second buffs.

tukez · 08/22/08, 7:06 PM

I have some concerns about my simulator's flurry and haste mechanics. Currently with flurry, same speed weapons go out of sync. Also haste effects do not affect mid-swing. These posts([Warrior] DPS Spreadsheet 2.3 and beyond) have some "evidence" that my mechanics are wrong: same speed weapons stay in sync with flurry and haste effects do affect in mid-swing. I just want to know if this is the general opinion or not?

HappyDude · 08/23/08, 5:43 AM

Originally Posted by tukez

I have some concerns about my simulator's flurry and haste mechanics. Currently with flurry, same speed weapons go out of sync. Also haste effects do not affect mid-swing. These posts([Warrior] DPS Spreadsheet 2.3 and beyond) have some "evidence" that my mechanics are wrong: same speed weapons stay in sync with flurry and haste effects do affect in mid-swing. I just want to know if this is the general opinion or not?

About a year ago there was a thread on flurry mechanics: [Melee Combat]How Does Flurry Work. It isn't actually conclusive (as far as I can tell), but it does bring up the issues involved in simulating it, as well as a number of theories to describe it. It _is_ a year old, so may be out of date, but I haven't noticed anything regarding flurry theorycrafting around here since then. You may also want to take a look at the Parry Mechanics thread, which helps to explain some of the results from the combat log in the flurry thread.

As to mid-swing haste effects, the evidence you linked seems pretty conclusive to me that haste is indeed applied mid-swing. It wouldn't be too hard to find someone with an abacus of violent odds and a slow two-hander to generate some combat logs and test it out, but I don't see how it could generate different results to those posted in the warrior thread.

Wundorn · 08/24/08, 11:48 AM

I won't swear to this, as it's just based on memory.

I recently switched from 2.5/2.6 to 2.6/2.6 weapons, and it's been really different. Previously they'd get progressively more and more out of sync with each other, and in a fight lasting more than a few seconds it felt like I was landing hits constantly.

But with dual 2.6s, that's no longer the case. They always seem to land together. And this does correspond to what was said to be the current state of affairs a year ago: that with 1 flurry charge left, both weapons got the benefit of the flurry haste. At that time I posted a question, which was whether this effect was enough to counter the loss of DPS from the *other* bugginess in flurry, which was that critting on the last charge wouldn't renew flurry.

Now, that last bug was documented as fixed FOR WARRIORS in a recent patch. I do not know if it was fixed for us, and completely forgot to test it.

If you have a reasonable log, it should be pretty easy to establish the state of both these bugs (fixed or not) in a pretty short amount of time.

BTW, last I recall hearing, Yo!'s does *not* get the dual-2.6 (or dual-whatever-speed) final-flurry-charge-for-both thing right. But that was about a year ago, I don't know what the story is now.

Wraithlin · 08/24/08, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by david0925

Resurgi:

On your flow chart you twist at 5 second mark rather than immediately after shock ended. I am assuming that is to avoid the conflict that will happen at 13 second, which you will be shocking at 13.5?

Yes, if you twist after your first shock your group lose WF or 2 seconds, this loss of DPS is needless because there is a rotation that never clips or causes WF down time. Shock/SS clashes cannot be avoided without points in elemental, but all other losses of DPS are avoidable with a little thought.

The problem is thoughtless people tied twisting and SS together because they all have a 10s cool down and they wanted to mash 1 button mindlessly. The golden rule is that you should always twist after a shock and never after a SStrike, however this rotation precludes a 1 button macro.

tukez · 08/25/08, 7:12 PM

-Haste mechanics fixed to affect mid-swing.
-Flurry mechanics fixed to keep same speed weapons in sync.
-ep_expertise_rating changed to ep_expertise. Now you input it in expertise, not in expertise rating.
-Trinkets added: Blackened Naaru Sliver, Darkmoon Card: Crusade.
-Combatlog version's timestamp changed to more readable form.
-Combatlog is now written to file combatlog.txt. You can set different simulation time with combatlog output: simulation_time_combatlog.

enhsim - Google Code

Please test these changes. Changes to combatlogging makes this little easier. Thanks for any testing and feedback.

Timewasted · 08/25/08, 9:16 PM

Am I doing something wrong? I changed my mh_expertise_rating (and the offhand value) from 112 to 28 (rating to actual value), ran the sim, and it gave me dodges. I then changed the name in the config to mh_expertise and ran the sim. I didn't get dodges, but it complained about not having mh_expertise_rating. Am I correct to assume that you meant to warn for mh_expertise and not _rating?

tukez · 08/26/08, 2:04 AM

Originally Posted by Timewasted

Am I doing something wrong? I changed my mh_expertise_rating (and the offhand value) from 112 to 28 (rating to actual value), ran the sim, and it gave me dodges. I then changed the name in the config to mh_expertise and ran the sim. I didn't get dodges, but it complained about not having mh_expertise_rating. Am I correct to assume that you meant to warn for mh_expertise and not _rating?

It is actually ep_expertise from the EP ranges.

Timewasted · 08/26/08, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by tukez

It is actually ep_expertise from the EP ranges.

Hmm? My config looks roughly like

ep_ap				45
ep_crit_rating			20
ep_hit_rating			20
ep_expertise			4
ep_haste_rating			35
ep_armor_ignore			110
ep_spellpower			60
ep_spellcrit_rating		30
ep_spellhit_rating		30

mh_speed			2.80
oh_speed			2.60
mh_dps				100.2
oh_dps				107.9
mh_crit				35.94
oh_crit				35.94
mh_hit				8.24
oh_hit				8.24
mh_expertise			28
oh_expertise			28
ap				1882
haste				6.79
ignore_armor			560
str				430
agi				324
int				218

...

When I run the sim on that config, it tells me

mh_expertise_rating not found from config.
oh_expertise_rating not found from config.

But despite the warnings, the sim appears to be working correctly.