Bigbazz

Goodjob on the sheet, i have a question about the trinket [Solarian's Sapphire]. In the spreadsheet it currently has no stats, therefore i have no way to tell how it compares to other trinkets.

I understand it may not be so straight forward to model its dps value based on the fact that it increases your attack power through battleshout, but could it be possible to model it on the common "5/5 commanding presence" talent build which would mean the trinket is worth 87.5 attack power. Im not altogether "Clued" into all the maths involved with it, however i would like to see how it compares, since seeing that currently it shows as "0" dps value is far from the truth.

 

bcswen

Bigbazz, while it is true that selecting the Sapphire in your trinket slot gives 0 dps, the option for the Solarian's Sapphire buff to Battle Shout already exists in the 'Talents and Raid' page, right next to Commanding Presence.

 

Punjanbi

Excellent spreadsheet. I'm very glad I found this as it has made me aware of things that needed to be changed. Is there a way to update this to reflect [Brutal Gladiator's War Edge]? I'm sure it's an upgrade over the vengeful but would like to see the numbers associated with it.

 

• landsoul

New version released. See first page for details and download.

 

Lapp

With the new version and particularly the armor penetration changes, I've made some interesting discoveries.

The following setups exclude Thalassian Ranger Gauntlets (extremely marginal dps increase, but hard to acquire), Thori'dal (slight dps increase, but also hard to acquire), ring enchants (not everyone has access to them, but it's not like they would have any effect on other gearing setup), and Hard Khorium Choker (actually a great dps increase, but not everyone is JC).

Assumed buffs/consumables are fairly maxed, with Imp FF, FI, TSA, and Imp EA not used; the latter would actually make for another investigation, as the soft ArP cap drops significantly--I imagine there will be interesting results, but I'll look into it later.

There are two sets--best setup with Fists, 6200 and 7700, and best setup with Glaives, 6200 and 7700. The main purpose of this is to figure out what changes one should make between fighting a 7700 and a 6200, and all deliberation after these links discusses the 6200 setup (or changes from the 7700 to the 6200), even if not stated. This is because the 7700 best setup is rather solidly set in stone, seeing as the 7700 ArP soft cap is unreachable currently, but the 6200 best setup is not (prior to this investigation, at least), since this spreadsheet modeled ArP beyond soft cap incorrectly prior to this latest release.

Here are the setups (in this spreadsheet):
Fists 7700
Fists 6200
Glaives 7700
Glaives 6200

I've been awestruck that there is so little difference between the best setup for a 7700 boss and the one for a 6200 boss, despite having some ArP well over the soft cap. I expected that some non-ArP alternatives would be better, but in all cases but one, they are worse.

In the case of the Fists setup, you wouldn't change one item going from a 7700 boss to a 6200 boss. Every possible alternative is a dps decrease. The best actual solution is to have a second Hand of the Deceiver enchanted with Mongoose, resulting in 15 more dps.

As for Glaives, going from 7700 to 6200 is almost the same case. Due to the MH Glaive having 21 hit, you can swap SS Ring with Hard Khorium Band, and this is the only such swap that yields more dps (and doesn't take you below the hit soft cap like this same swap would with the Fists setup). Seeing as you can't get a second MH Glaive, you wouldn't be able to Mongoose it (not only is it unique, but that would still be really impractical if it weren't; there are other people, you know! :p). Also, by some dumb stroke of luck, this 6200 Glaive setup yields exactly 1337 ArP, which is awesome, and almost exactly at the soft ArP cap, depending on whether bosses are 6185 or 6200 (1335 and 1350 caps, respectively). I read about the former some time ago but I'm not sure which it is; not that it really matters, though.

Glaives is obviously also the better setup for both cases, but not all of us are lucky enough to get them :<

(Edit) Imp EA info:

It seems that enabling Imp EA has no effect on the above gear setups. In the case of fists, having a second Mongoose'd MH remains the best choice, and similar to Glaives with no EA being right around soft cap, this gets you just 99 (84 if they're really 6185) over the hard cap, so you'd be at 0 armor against a 6200 boss at all times :o. For Glaives, the same ring swap is the only thing you can do to increase dps.

So, thanks for this change to the sheet, Land (granted it's modeling correctly :p); it's been very insightful. And hopefully this post has been useful and informative to you all. Feel free to point out if I've made any errors :p

(Edit) In the 6200 Fists sheet, I forgot to change the MH enchant to Mongoose

 

Llilyth

There is a "Choose Race" setting in the Gear Display tab, but also "5 Expertise Main Hand" and "5 Expertise Off Hand" settings in the Talents and Raid tab. Does the "Choose Race" setting not automatically apply the Expertise bonus if a Human equips a Mace of Sword? One must set the "5 Expertise" settings also?

 

Bulvine

The choose race in the spreadsheet only establishes your base stats and maybe the orc racial Blood Fury. This sheet does not take into account what type of weapon(ie sword, mace, fist or axe) you put on your mh and oh. That is why you must pick the "5 Expertise" options in the buff/talents tab.

 

Grim Reaper

Would it be possible for you to model Devastate, One-handed weapon specialization, Vitality and Focused Rage? Oh, and a option to enable/disable Flurry and Bloodthirst. I know it might be a lot to ask, but it would be appriciated :P

I just want to see the difference in damage output between a regular 17/44 spec and a 17/3/41 spec at a high gear level. I know already that Devastate is quite a lot better than Bloodthirst, but not so sure about Flurry vs One-handed specialization, and how the total difference will be.

 

StrikeQ

With my current gear upgrading to the OH Glaive is a 8 DPS loss over the Badge slow fist. Going from both badge slow fists to both Warglaives is only a 12 DPS increase. Using MH Glaive and OH Slow Fist is almost a 10 DPS upgrade over both Glaives.

That doesn't really seem right. Just wondering what kind of reasoning would explain why the spreadsheet says that. I am first up for Glaives if he ever chooses to drop them, and there is no doubt they are an upgrade. Is it only the set bonus that makes it better? I'd figure as plain weapons w/o the set bonus it'd still be an upgrade.

 

Kaan

You have to activate Warglaives under "Sets" first, then you will see a bigger increase.

And yes, Warglaive Offhand is worse in theory, but in real a lot easier and more constant to play, than a slow offhand.

 

Rhaegar

Hey there,

I recently discovered your hilarious spreadsheet and played around with it a bit. I hope this doesn't work out as some of the usual "I'm doin too less damag!!1111 wtf?!??!?! lol^^" post, but I wonder:

How far does this spreadsheet count AoE damage into account? Putting in my equipment gives me a potential 560 DPS reduced to only selfbuffed values. Which isn't perfect, but solid for most heroics I guess. At least our normal group setup gives a whooping 200 DPS increase.

Anyways, I tried this out for a few days and I seem to be stuck at about 500 DPS while questing dailies (!). So my question is: where are those 60 DPS? Is it pure AoE damage from SS or WW I'm missing there? Or am I doing something wrong?

What I know I could improve is: I don't use my trinkets very often and I really need to work on my rage dump with HS. But would that give me truely a 10% increase in DPS?

Thanks for your time.

 

Whistles

Spreadsheets assume an ideal rotation and usage of trinkets/abilities. You won't always have 5 stacks of Rampage or have a 0 lag rotation or use your trinket exactly on the CD so your DPS will be lower. The DPS in the spreadsheet is designed to be against a single target so multiple enemies will raise your DPS though as will taking damage for more rage.

So there isn't a way for it to be perfect for you, just use it to get a general idea of what items and stats to focus on.

 

manglemangle

Why wouldn't you? I never let rampage fall off after the first initial build up which would be perhaps 3 swings.

 

Whistles

If you can keep 5 stacks of Rampage up constantly while you're doing dailies you're a better warrior than I.

 

Rhaegar

Thanks for the clarification, Whistle, I try to do exactly that. That's why I asked.

But to be more exact: How much loss can I tolerate without starting to think about my rotation, usage of rage, etc? From my point of view 10% DPS-loss is quite a bit, or is it just as it is while questing and not being able to use the damage potential to the max.

 

Whistles

I'd try to get some data from a single target boss in a heroic that doesn't require you to run around or avoid stuff. Just sit there and DPS and see what your numbers average out to. If that's significantly lower then make sure the buffs and everything in the sheet are set right and look at what you can improve.

Of course there isn't really a reason not to always be thinking about your rotation and rage usage honestly.

 

Graul

I never even bother with Rampage while doing dailies. For bosses however, refresh it too soon and you wasted rage. Wait too long and you end up having to build up 5 more stacks, which is also costing you a small amount of the rage you would have gained if the AP was already up. As was already stated, spreadsheets are averages and in a vacuum.

 

Lord Pendragon

Heya folks.

How much dps would you say the Tier 6 set bonuses are worth? While most T6 pieces for warriors are overshadowed by off-set pieces, I'm wondering whether the set bonuses can make up for that at all, and if so to what degree.

Thanks for any insight.

 

Edenfall

Hello. Have to say; I have not read all posts in the Warrior threads to this point, because I am somewhat in a rush.
To cut to the chase, I need to know whether a DPS Warrior does more damage (total from raid) with either Blood Frenzy or two Warglavies.

To explain further, we just had two OH Warglavies drop in a row, and since our last Rogue is on vacation we need to prepare for who to receive a possible next Warglavie. At the moment we have 2x Warriors (Blood Frenzy, Arms/Fury) and two Core Raider Rogues. The Arms/Fury Warrior has an OH Warglavie, as does one of our Rogues. The remainder are our Arms Warrior and currently Vacating Rogue.

Of course, I'd love to give the DPS Warrior a Warglavie if it should drop, but it might not be prioritized if Blood Frenzy will out-DPS dual Warglavies.

Let's say we've got...

Warrior Tank
Warrior Arms
Warrior Arms/Fury
Rogue
Rogue
Hunter X
Hunter Survival
Druid Feral
Paladin Retribution

...Blood Frenzy, or Warglavies? Anybody got facts?

Nolife is defined by dedication and ideology.

http://www.dkpsigs.com/sigs/Ragnaros/48740.jpg

 

Rauch

If you want to see how effective Blood Frenzy is in general for your raid makeup, take all your physical dps classes and add up their dps in a fight (say Brutallus), assume you have 100% Blood Frenzy uptime which is generally true, divide this by 104%, and multiply that value by 4%, and that's about how much raid DPS Blood Frenzy is contributing. Now, a Warglaive set generally can boost dps by about 150 to 200 dps (vs. a Demon) for either the rogue or warrior, and a fury warrior with similar level gear to an arms warrior should be pushing at very least 300 more dps than the arms warrior (assuming no threat issues and similar group buffs), so that's around 500 dps over the arms warrior when adding the warglaive bonus in (using the best case for simplicity). Now ask yourself, 500 dps or an arms warrior's raid buff that gives 4% to all physical damage (which will depend on how you stack your raid and taking note that this affects tanks, rogues, warriors, druids, hunters, pets, and ret. pallies). Now, you give that glaive to a rogue first, they get the boost to what should already be very good dps, they have an agro dump, and they'll receive the Blood Frenzy bonus on top of that.

I personally love fury, I can only dream of having a warglaive set at this point, but for now, Blood Frenzy is too much to give up unless I can out perform myself as arms by almost 600dps (dropped 2k dps on Brut this week as arms ). As much as I hate to say it, the rogue getting the set first and keeping the arms warrior in will benefit the raid much more right away than the fury warrior getting the set first. The only exceptions I could see would be your arms warrior being geared very badly, being very bad at playing arms, or both. Hopefully you guys get lucky and a 2nd MH drops right away, good luck!

 

Whistles

Why does this matter? You have to give it to a Rogue or a Warrior so it's either the tank or the Arms warrior based on your list. If the question you're asking is actually "Should our Arms warrior go Fury if he has a glaive?" then the answer is probably no but it's a simple calculation.

Raid Physical DPS/1.04 * .04 > Fury Warr DPS - Arms Warr DPS

If that's true then he stays Arms assuming the Fury and Arms warriors both know how to play well.

 

MasterKazoom

Hi,

Just some questions, if they have been answered before, I apologize for not sifting through 24 pages of discussion.

For the most time I've been using Grim's Excel spreadsheet, but with the lack of updates I tried out this spreadsheet, which left me quite confused at some times. I read the instructions, about updating the sheet after every item update and so on, but some things still seem to be a bit off. For instance, when I change my boot enchant from surefooted to something else, the dps drops from say 2122 to 211x, which is okay, but if I switch the enchant back to surefooted, it doesn't go back to 2122, even after reselecting the item anew and updating the sheet again. This happens with different gem selections, socket bonus selections, and I probably forgot some other place where the end dps jumped weirdly.

Any input if I handled the sheet wrong would be appreciated.

 

Rauch

MasterKazoom, you have to perform a manual recalculation on this sheet twice whenever you make a change. Ctrl + Shift + Y or look under the "Edit" menu and hit "Repeat" twice. I just edited the tool bar and added the Repeat button to it, makes it a bit more trivial.

 

MasterKazoom

I did that once after updating every item, not twice though. I'll try it out now.

 

perkynose