[Priest] Holy Raiding Compendium v2 (WoW-2.4.3) - Page 2

Bendyr · 04/02/08, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by Zedd

For the Gruul/Mag Level list. (aka what my alt Priest is healing)

Wont the [Belt of the Long Road] be the better option ?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Savere

First time poster, so if theres a better spot to ask this I'm more than willing to move it.

I'm currently a CoH healer that is mid way through SSC and TK and I happen to have both the [Ribbon of Sacrifice] And [Pendant of the Violet Eye]. The question I have is that according to the trinket options those two are fairly low on the totem pole when compared to some of the other trinkets I currently have potentially have available to me, yet I find that stacking the 2 buffs for raid wide burst dmg usually means I can get around anywhere from 8-15 stacks off of the pendant depending on latency and reaction time. If HP's allow it, I try to use inner focus in order to use as much as the buff as I can outside the 5SR. I can also count on those situations when it's just the melee groups taking heavy dmg, reach the 5 stack buff from the Ribbon easily on 2 or 3 groups.

Am I justified in continuing in this fashion, or am I blinding myself to better options with all the swirly lights?

Love the site guys, awesome information/tools/threads

The Ribbon of Sacrifice is unimpressive for CoH spam, because it really only helps if a lot of people are healing the same target. Ribbon is better for Tank healing, and it's not really even that good for that.

Pendant of the Violet Eye works out to 16 mp5 in ideal conditions, which is easily achievable with other trinkets with much better other stats and effects.

ObservingLife · 04/02/08, 3:14 PM

Just looking at the ilvls on the gear tells you whether or not PMC is better than the new badge gear (hint: it's not). It's a dumb question. ilvl 115 vs ilvl 141 ... I wonder which one will win?[/quote]

This statement is way too encompassing and perhaps even a bit out of line. As numerous different things in this game have shown (bangle of endless blessings and rejuv gem, which are in brought up in this guide, green off hands for enh shaman, 3 Piece Tier 2 for Resto Shamans, and so many others), ilvl is NOT an all inclusive indicator of an item being better than another. While it would be very reasonable to *assume* these items were better by the significant ilvl difference, these boards are all about hard facts and not assumptions. PMC is (was, pre 2.4 at least) rediculously well itemized for any fight that stamina was irrelevant. People don't know how items stand in the new itemization standpoint, and MP5 was a very solid stat before that, and the lack of MP5 on the new badge gear could easily lead people to draw conflicting conclusions of PMC vs new badge gear, thus comming here.

(I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong: the new badge gear is pretty amazing. Just that people asking about it could easily have some justification for asking).

As for tailoring: its definitley the fastest way to get gear if you have it leveled or are gonna drop the cash to level it. However, with no keying on kara as I mentioned earlier and so many overgeared people running it, its not hard to get carried in a couple karas and soak loot to get to an acceptable gear level to run heroics. So I wouldn't consider it essential, but it will make the first couple weeks of crazy badge farming easier, unless you're very lucky on your first kara.

Penicilin · 04/02/08, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by constantius

All the people asking about PMC vs badge gear are missing a very important point.

How are you going to GET badges without gear? I mean, ok, badges are easy to get ... but not that easy. You require Karazhan / Zul'Aman / heroics to effectively farm badges to get ~ 500-600 badges worth of gear. And you're not going to get that many badges by running around in blues.

Go tailoring, make PMC and Whitemend, and then farm badges. The badges will fill in your gloves, boots, and bracers slots, and give you an option for an offhand. You can pick up a trinket. Cloak comes from Karazhan, and you can grab a neck from ZA. At this point, you're almost kitted out. You THEN start replacing the tailoring gear (6 weeks later) with badge gear. All told, it'd take you over 3 months to get 600 badges if you start from scratch.

I mean, farming badges hard-core, with tons of 25-mans, heroics, ZA every reset, and Karazhan when I'm bored, I get about 125 badges a week. Most of that comes from the 25-mans, though -- BT+HS is 22 badges, Magtheridon is 3, and Gruul's Lair is 5.

And I have gear, which means I'm not running instances for gear/badges -- I'm running them for badges.

Just looking at the ilvls on the gear tells you whether or not PMC is better than the new badge gear (hint: it's not). It's a dumb question. ilvl 115 vs ilvl 141 ... I wonder which one will win?

I dont think I was saying I start from scratch, did I?

I was asking whether is PMC inluding his pasive effect better/same/worse compared to badges loot. As I am not able to make calculation myself, I asked here. Not counting effect its clear ofc.

Sinndir · 04/02/08, 3:53 PM

Jayde you need to include Quick Lionseye for a possibel Yellow Gem slot, as it is viable.

ailesdeciel · 04/02/08, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by Penicilin

I dont think I was saying I start from scratch, did I?

I was asking whether is PMC inluding his pasive effect better/same/worse compared to badges loot. As I am not able to make calculation myself, I asked here. Not counting effect its clear ofc.

The generous amount of spirit on the new badge loot will make up for losing the set bonus. With all of the new armor in chest, legs, and feet, you get 126 spirit plus 3 red sockets and a blue socket. If you put shadow pearls in all of them, you get 146 spirit including socket bonuses. Looking at your armory, you get a whopping 111 net gain on spirit with the new gear which is huge. OOFSR is more amazing than ever for mana efficiency.

Penicilin · 04/02/08, 3:59 PM

This is not priest I am playing atm. Switched to horde side a lot of the months ago, but thanks for a clear answer!

deathwatcher · 04/02/08, 5:00 PM

Hello thank you alot for all the help. I am a 1st time poster. I only have a few questions.
1st.
Flash Heal / Binding Heal:

/cast [mod:ctrl] Flash Heal(Rank 9); Binding Heal

This is a handy way to cast Binding Heal whenever you need to, while normally just hitting Flash Heal to save mana.

This is nice, but is there another macro that I can use that will cast Flash Heal as the primary heal, and Binding Heal as the ctrl heal. I have made this macro and it doesn't work, and I have also tried to make a different macro but that wasn't sucessful either.

2nd. I am a shadow priest by trade. My offhealing set is pretty good for how much work i've put into it. But I really don't know how to gem my gear. Is it better with the changes in 2.3 and 2.4 to get spirit gems over the healing/mp/5 gems?

constantius · 04/02/08, 5:07 PM

Let's say you put the Flash/Binding heal macro onto your bars and bind that slot to 5. Now, assume you try the modifier CTRL+5. And it doesn't work.

I had this happen, and it took me half an hour to figure out why. Something I had installed had bound CTRL+5 to something completely random that I never used, so it was conflicting. Make sure this is not the case for you.

Additionally, modify the macro to the version I have changed it to above, listing the spell ranks, which are required. Also, the first spell in the macro above is what will be cast when the modifier is held; the default case is at the end (so I swapped them, so that default is Flash Heal).

Jayde · 04/02/08, 5:38 PM

I know I've made this argument before, but if you check my profile you'll still see that I use PMC in my "pure healing" (e.g. non-stamina fight) gear set.

Why? Honestly, the set bonus is insane. It's even more insane after the patch.

For me currently, the PMC set bonus is worth 48 Mp5. That's 16 Mp5 per piece. Splitting the set bonus evenly, you end up with:
a) The chest is slightly better than all other T5 options (most average slot)
b) The shoulders are slightly worse than T5 shoulders (worst slot)
c) The belt is better than anything pre-Sunwell (best slot)

When looking at things from a pure healing stat/budget perspective, there is no way to actually "beat" PMC until you at least have the T6 Shoulders and Chest.

So, yes, PMC is still very much worth it. Yes it looks dumb. Yes, you lose a little bit of Stamina (which is a bit overrated if you ask me, since all your other pieces will have Stamina, making it easy to reach 9k in raids even with PMC--one can also socket damage/stam gems in the blue slots if they are concerned and you still come out ahead on the healing stat front...)

Especially if you are not in T6 level content, do not dismiss PMC. The new badge boots and legs are insane, as is the 2.4 weapon combined with the 2.3 offhand. The 2.3 badge gloves are also extremely nice. Use your badges on those slots first.

Sure, you could get The Gown of Spiritual Wonder + Belt of the Long Road + Mantle of the Avatar. You would have "almost" as good healing stats... If you have those items, it's obviously a bit overkill to bother with going tailoring or something. However, if you are already tailoring or just recently 70 or already have PMC, it's a lot of effort that you could probably spend upgrading other pieces first just to result in a net loss in healing stats for a bit more Stamina. My advice would be to pick up those other pieces if you can without too much effort, and swap for stamina fights if needed.

Vlydia · 04/02/08, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jayde

I have an index in my spreadsheet now for showing the equivalency of +1 Healing vs. +1 Haste Rating in terms of HPS for all ranks of GH based on current stats, if that is of any help.

At least for my current stats, +1 Heal is an increase of .37-.46 HPS depending on rank, whereas +1 Haste is .92-1.44 HPS depending on rank. So, in terms of raw HPS increase, it's usually around 3:1. However, as +Haste only increases HPS and +Heal increases HPS and HPM by the same ratio, I tend to weight +Haste as half as good in direct comparison, giving it around a 1.5:1 ratio or so in overall usage. This is a bit dependant on how you want to look at it though.

Originally Posted by Jayde

Yellow -
*Luminous Pyrestone
Seer's Chrysoprase
Luminous Noble Topaz
*Dazzling Seaspray Emerald
Dazzling Talasite

Wouldn't Quick Lionseye be best if this is infact true?

Jayde · 04/02/08, 5:49 PM

If you were dismissing the HPM gains and going for pure HPS increases, in theory it would be for GH at 3:1. However, I'm inclined to half the relative value due to the failure to increase HPM at the same ratio, and basically do only half of the same function. For GH, 10 Haste wouldn't be a very competitive gem unless you're only looking at pure HPS. (Then it's probably the best if you have high enough +healing already.)

For CoH, however, given the discussions on healing vs. haste for that purpose it may be extremely competitive.

So, I suppose it depends on how you want to weight things, really. For someone who does CoH a lot, I could certainly see the use of +10 Haste gems.

• Shocktar · 04/02/08, 7:32 PM

I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment of the [Vial of the Sunwell]. I've found that, despite the fact that is most certainly not the best healing or regen trinket available, there are many fights when the instant heal every two minutes is very impressive, especially if you combine it with the fact that the trinket's heal is not on the GCD and cannot be silenced, as well as being able to crit and being affected by fel armor, tree of life, and spiritual healing. I have no other way to directly burst heal (aside from mending, which of course requires the target to be taking damage, and if I have to heal while moving, now, that may not be an option).

It's very well placed in five mans, and remember that it keeps us out of the FSR. I've had many times on fights such as Hydross (limited raid experience) where I have to move and compensate for other healers blowing it. Granted, on long bomb fights where I have to stand and heal, or stuff like Lurker, Gruul, or Mag where it's fairly predictable damage, I'll pick a more conventional trinket, but having the healthstone-vial combo for self healing, or having an instant heal that will save that retarded raider when I need it is both a unique skill I do not normally posess and opens up quite a bit of possibilities.

Finkum · 04/02/08, 8:44 PM

Originally Posted by constantius

Just looking at the ilvls on the gear tells you whether or not PMC is better than the new badge gear (hint: it's not). It's a dumb question. ilvl 115 vs ilvl 141 ... I wonder which one will win?

This isn't universally true at all. Aside from it's total lack of stamina PMC is incredibly well itemised, whereas many pieces of the new ilvl 141 gear are (it is suspected deliberately) poorly itemised (although this is less true for the healing cloth than for the dps cloth, fortunately). Moreover the only overlap item available from badges is the chest slot [Gown of Spiritual Wonder], which is (discounting stamina) only slightly better than the PMC chest in isolation and a significant regen downgrade if it means you are breaking the set bonus; a set bonus which has increased in value as a result of the 2.4 spirit/int changes, and can easily give an additional 30 - 40 mp5 while casting at the T4/ZA/badge level.

heel · 04/02/08, 10:59 PM

Circle of Healing is very, very bad in Sunwell.

deathwatcher · 04/03/08, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by constantius

Let's say you put the Flash/Binding heal macro onto your bars and bind that slot to 5. Now, assume you try the modifier CTRL+5. And it doesn't work.

I had this happen, and it took me half an hour to figure out why. Something I had installed had bound CTRL+5 to something completely random that I never used, so it was conflicting. Make sure this is not the case for you.

Additionally, modify the macro to the version I have changed it to above, listing the spell ranks, which are required. Also, the first spell in the macro above is what will be cast when the modifier is held; the default case is at the end (so I swapped them, so that default is Flash Heal).

Thank you very much Constantius that helped alot. I decided to bind it to alt instead of ctrl because it is easier to hit. I would never have thought of other key bindings. Much appriciated! ^_^

Flinkindolin · 04/03/08, 2:36 AM

Originally Posted by heel

Circle of Healing is very, very bad in Sunwell.

Would you please elaborate on this declaration? My guild hasn't had a chance to get into Sunwell yet, but I'd like to be prepared.

constantius · 04/03/08, 2:48 AM

Alright, we're arguing about PMC. Here's the numbers. For sake of argument, a blue slot is a [Sparkling Star of Elune], a red slot is [Teardrop Living Ruby], and a yellow slot is a [Luminous Noble Topaz]. Obviously epic gem replacements don't change much.

Assumptions:
500 spirit without the robe, belt, and shoulder slots (raid-buffed)
500 intellect without the same (raid-buffed)

[Primal Mooncloth Robe], [Primal Mooncloth Belt], and [Primal Mooncloth Shoulders]

Stamina: 0
Intellect: 62
Spirit: 62
Healing S&E: 312
Mp5: 25

+ set bonus gives 5% regeneration while casting.
+ 25 Healing S&E raid-buffed from spirit

Totals:
660 Mp5 OO5SR (overall)
247 Mp5 I5SR (overall, assuming no other Mp5 from other pieces of gear, 35%)
337 Healing S&E

[Gown of Spiritual Wonder], [Belt of the Long Road], and [Light-Mantle of the Incarnate]

Stamina: 72
Intellect: 87
Spirit: 123
Healing S&E: 296
Mp5: 0

+ 50 Healing S&E raid-buffed from spirit

Totals:
730 Mp5 OO5SR (overall)
219 Mp5 I5SR
346 Healing S&E

Assuming 25% OO5SR regen over the course of a typical fight, the regen numbers are:

PMC: 350 Mp5
Other: 347 Mp5

I'm willing to trade 3 Mp5 for 790 HP, 9 Healing S&E, and not looking like a January 2007 refugee.

If you assume access to Void Reaver (I mean, c'mon), then the numbers are skewed even closer to the side of the badge / crafted gear, since T4 shoulders are pretty bad. T5 push the numbers completely in favour, and access to something like [Amice of Brilliant Light] destroys PMC.

constantius · 04/03/08, 2:49 AM

Originally Posted by Flinkindolin

Would you please elaborate on this declaration? My guild hasn't had a chance to get into Sunwell yet, but I'd like to be prepared.

Heel is being sarcastic (I hope), as CoH destroys in Sunwell. It's basically an instance designed for CoH priests. Brutallus slash damage, Felmyst aura damage, healing shadowbolts inside the mind of Kalecgos ... it's like CoH heaven. And the trash has so much AE that CoH destroys on healing meters, and on effective healing done.

We're currently running 2 CoH, 1 IDS priest for Sunwell, and loving it.

ilkori · 04/03/08, 3:17 AM

Hmm. I need to do some clarifying here.

RE: Tailoring
Aside from PMC/Whitemend, there are other tailoring pieces. (I should have been more specific when I mentioned "other mixed pieces.")

The other side of the coin deals with high ilvl gear. I saw only a couple tailoring pieces mentioned in the end-game section - and those are under fairly tough competition with other pieces. I would assume that having a tailor available for these drops increases the chance of faster progression due to the increased odds of a drop being useable. But, assumptions like that aren't worth a whole lot if there are ways to evaluate in more detail. The question, then, is: Given X Healing Priests in a raid, how many should be tailors for optimum progression?

Put another way, is the chance to get an equivalent piece of gear sooner for a raid member worth the oppourtunity cost of enchanting +40 healing on rings for every fight (before and after said upgrade), or similar benefits from other professions?

Haste, crit, and healing all work together. Unfortunately they are nonlinear. I've started working on it a little. I won't post my work yet since it isn't finished and is not presentable. There are two seperate problem spaces, as I see it. One is MT healing and inspiration procs. The second is any situation where healing throughput is critical (pun not intended), and topping-off is not a significant factor (such as CoH raid healing). Some previous discussion is quoted below. (There was likely quite a bit more discussion, but these seemed to be the relevant bits from what I found in the time I had.)

Originally Posted by ObservingLife

Also: further in depth analysis of crit for throughput on CoH? Adept's elixir, Spiritual guidance versus Holy Spec, etc? My feeling is because of the relative cost of crit rating versus +healing and the pretty sick coefficient for CoH there will be few situations this would be relevant, but its worth looking into.

(I'm not trying to be a mooch, just in no position currently to do analyses, so throwing it out there, will get to it this weekend if it hasn't shown up yet)

Hoping this will reduce some redundancy

Holy Priest Theorycrafting
(Mention of talent difference - more discussion earlier)

[Priest] Holy Raiding Compendium (2.3.x)

Originally Posted by Irise

This is my post from a now dead thread about Healing Priests.

--- Quote ---
There is a much simpler way of calculating Inspiration uptime. The chance that Inspiration is up at any time depends solely on what happened in the last 15 seconds. Let

G = Number of Greater Heals cast in the last 15 seconds.
F = Number of Flash Heals cast in the last 15 seconds.
C = Crit chance for Greater and Flash Heals.

Probability that Inspiration is active = 1 - Probability that Inspiration is not active = 1 - (1 - C)^(G+F)

So assuming 12% crit rate and 6 Heals cast (G+F) we get the uptime of 53.6%.

Let add the fact that we have 2 priests healing this target with 12 crit chance each and roughly 6 heals every 15 seconds. Then the uptime becomes 1 - (1 - 0.536)^2 = 78%.

Looking up armor damage reduction formulas from WoWWiki, at 20k armor Inspiration will reduce incoming damage by 16%. So with the uptime of 78% we are looking at a total decrease in damage of around 13% with two priests. With just one priest the damage reduction will be 8%.
--- /Quote ---

Note that doubling the number of Priests does not double the uptime due to overlap. My main issue with inspiration is that it doesn't work well with the great OFSR that priests have.

Liths · 04/03/08, 4:53 AM

Originally Posted by ObservingLife

Also: further in depth analysis of crit for throughput on CoH? Adept's elixir, Spiritual guidance versus Holy Spec, etc? My feeling is because of the relative cost of crit rating versus +healing and the pretty sick coefficient for CoH there will be few situations this would be relevant, but its worth looking into.

(I'm not trying to be a mooch, just in no position currently to do analyses, so throwing it out there, will get to it this weekend if it hasn't shown up yet)

Critical strike rating to improve throughput with only a 150% mod will always be a bad idea. Asuming 10% base crit rate, it'd take 46 crit rating to increase average healing done by 1%. 46 crit rating would get you 101 healing for the same ilvl budget. 101 healing would increase CoH healing by 23.8, asuming your CoH heals for 1100 before this addition, thats an increase of almost 2.2%. The only real point of crit rating is, for any spell, inspiration up time. If an item comes with crit rating, it doesnt hurt, but I wouldn't really strive for it.

That said, adepts elixir is a very viable choice. If im on any sort of tank healing, I always prefer it. You're trading 26 healing for 24 crit rating, at a rate of 92.3% instead of 45.5% if it followed the ilvl formulas. Actually, it's much worse than that since it's both dmg and healing, but it's not like that part it used for much. Compared to all the other elixirs, healing power has a terrible ilvl value. The only reason that we use it is the lack of viable options, and of course that +healing is a stat every priest want to get as high as possible.

AresDocares · 04/03/08, 5:28 AM

I got a question about spirit and gear.

Since 2.4 and having +1k spirit fully buff