tiltie

from my experience, blue dragon's regen beats that of memento by a large margin for long fights; however, for short fights memento gives you a better worse-case scenario because darkmoon can go without proc'ing at all. I'd use memento+alchemist stone which save me addictional mana via downranking

sunwell trash - when i'm in the mood i'd go full haste set including 2 x battle master alacrity trinkets for +80 spell haste. But i think your repair bill goes up as you do more at trash.

 

Closenocigar

If you're MT healing i would put [Memento of Tyrande] in anytime... you'll be mainly casting greater heals, thus getting very few chances to proc [Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon].
Memento is safe bet, plus gives you some nice +heal... [Redeemer's Alchemist Stone] would be the obvious 2nd trinket for an alchemist, earring for other professions.

In Sunwell you'll get to use CoH a lot, not only on trash... making Dragon much more viable, but i'll still use Memento i think (once i finally get it, 3drops in first 5 kills, then nothing till now...)

I don't like the Dragon Card because odds are it will do absolutely nothing for you, while Memento is sure to proc and has the sweet +heal.
But i've been very unlucky with drops (no earring), so still swapping in [Bangle of Endless Blessings] for bossfights

Edit: linked wrong alchemist stone

 

Havoc12

Although it might seem that 300-350 HP is not much, remember that PWS goes above current HP, its not plain healing. This is equivalent to an extra 30 temporary sta on the target. Temporary HP is a lot more powerfull than straight up healing, especially if you can react fast. Importantly PWS also generates less threat than healing. I personally consider PWS a core priest talent and would never ever skip imp PWS.

Scaling:
FH = 58%
PWS vanilla = 30%
PWS talented = 34.5%

2500+Healing

FH rank 9: 2780 healing 5.9HPM@0 overheal -- 5.31@10% -- 4.72@20% -- 4.425@ 25% overheal
PWS vanilla: 2015 absorbed 3.65HPM. PWS does not overheal
PWS talented: 2317 absorbed 4.2 HPM. PWS does not overheal

You can see that with the talent PWS compares favourably with Flash Heal due to the fact that it does not overheal. If you also have to work with a -healing debuff, then PWS is even more valuable.

 

Lambi

Yes, but if you start adding innervates into the equation together with transition fights and being human (haha suckers), then adding the fact that you can activate the trinket whenever you actually need the mana (there are many fights where you don't need the added mana at all times), I find it alot better. Oh and to make things worse for you guys... our shadowpriests all have memento, earring and the healing wand from trash

 

Thorongil

@PWS Discussion: I´d generally consider skipping IPWS when going CoH, since aggro might be an issue in this case. However, I´d never skip it when going IDS, since then I will generally try to heal Main Tanks and I use it quite frequently when doing MT-healing, especially in situations where movement is required PoM+Renew+Shield is the only thing I´ve got (or also in situations, where a lack of healing or total stop of it is predictable).

True, IPWS does not give an incredible boost, but I have never encountered any critical situation in a boss fight where aggro would be an issue for a non-CoH-priest, thus Silent Resolve simply lacks use for IDS-priests in my opinion.

 

Havoc12

I don't see why CoH priests should have a problem with aggro.

 

Thorongil

I do not know either (since I am our IDS-priest). I was simply quoting some of the previous posters here who argue, that aggro can be an issue with CoH sometimes.

 

Vihermaali

I don't exacly know what happened, but I've at least once pulled aggro with CoH from a tank (Bloodboil). I tried to ditch silent resolve once when we were doing BWL. Result, I managed to pull aggro from Flamegor and twice from Nefarian. Never dared to spec 0/5 again.

Yes, it may be "l2p issue" from one point of view, but universal truth is that shit happens. I want to heal whenever I want with no worries of aggro. When tank is getting hit for 8-10,5k normal hits, few hundred hp's on pw:shield isn't going to change things around.

 

• Richelieu

In my experience as a CoH priest with only 1 point in SR (plus Subtlety on cloak), Bloodboil is the only BT or Hyjal fight I've ever pulled aggro -- and that only has happened when we are doing it with 7 healers and I am tasked with healing two BB groups. My solution to that is now just to downrank CoH 1 notch in that situation (and actually watch Omen).

We are 5/5 Hyj and 9/9 BT, about to start Sunwell -- can any experienced Sunwell raiders speak to whether SR becomes more important to a CoH priest in there?

 

Sinndir

Viher, I too had a few problems on Gurtogg while learning (even later with lots of haste). I was running 3/5 Silent Resolve and the cloak enchant and outputting close to 3500 HPS, that is a lot of threat (consistently). Only reason I was able to maintain that mana was an innervate, a shadow priest group and [Redeemer's Alchemist Stone].

Not saying that Improved Power Word:Shield is not viable, I just prefer the reduced threat, if nothing more than for the first 10 seconds of a fight.

 

Sinndir

Lambi my question to you is do you still find the [Earring of Soulful Meditation] better over [Memento of Tyrande]?

I have recently switched to a [Redeemer's Alchemist Stone] and [Memento of Tyrande] combination, though I have never seen a [Earring of Soulful Meditation] drop.

As for trinkets, can anyone forward me to a place in this thread with [Bangle of Endless Blessings] math? I still think the return on it is very, very good.

 

Bjork

It has already been covered. Only bossfight in Sunwell where Silent Resolve has any use is on Felmyst phase 2 (given that your tanks have learned how to pick up adds on M'uru).

I guess this is down to personal preferences again, but here's the numbers at least.

Only BoS: 0,5*0,7=0,35 threat/heal
Bos, 5/5 SR: 0,5*0,7*0,8=0,28 threat/heal
Bos, 5/5 SR, Cloak enchant: 0,5*0,7*0,8*0,98=0,27 threat/heal

Now this is not global threat, there must be at least 15 adds up ... so:

Only Bos: 0,35 / 16 = 0,022 global threat/heal
Bos, 5/5 SR, Cloak enchant: 0,27 / 16 = 0,017 global threat/heal

The difference is ... small! I don't know how people can even know or feel the difference, because the second those mobs are touched by a tank, you won't have heal aggro. My guess is that a lot of people have had some bad experiences from before the paladin learned the encounter hence thinking that SR is of any use there. As already said, you can safely renew 10 targets before even one single skeleton has spawned and have those renews rolling giving you zero threat, then you also have fade as backup (minus 1500 threat) which give you 0 threat for 10 seconds as long as you don't heal more than around 70k! It's not like those adds one shot you anyway.

To repeat myself, if you have heal aggro without Silent Resolve you most likely have it with SR (or a different healer has it - who doesn't have fade) because no tank has touched it. If shit hits the fan and you end up with some skellys on you, fade and they run away.

 

Mideci

And to further amplify the general Silent Resolve discussion, if you are "needing" it other times, it's tank failure. If having it is saving you and not having is causing you to pull aggro something else is going on. I'm not qualified to discussed Felmyst and M'uru (although I'm sure the above does the job just fine), but I'm fully qualified to discuss Bloodboil, etc. I've never run with any points in Silent Resolve, nor enchanted my cloak with Subtlety, have healed Group 1 and assist healed on Group 2, etc. etc.

I would remind people, by the way, that much of your raid is going to respec a great deal inside Sunwell, and I certainly wouldn't worry about Richelieu's question in the abstract which if read out of context says: Should I respec now that we are starting Sunwell. Definitely not for Kalecgos. And one of you is probably going to want to be IDS for Brutallus, yes.

 

Havoc12

I do not know about these fights. I have never had trouble with threat. Unless the boss frequently has threat dumps just as you put out a hard burst then you physically cannot pull aggro from the DPS. If it is an aggro dump then your overall threat will be low and fade is enough, worse of all there is no guarantee that silent resolve will help you. Its only 16% less threat. Which at low threat levels is not that much. I often replace even salvation with another blessing. Reduced threat can be nice, but the return is extremely low.

I fear that if you want to heal without worrying about aggro SR wont help you. You take 1 point in silent resolve even with imp shield and its not possible to spec 5/5 SR without making a sacrifice from mental agi, which is hands down not worth it. At the very best you are looking 4/5 SR vs 1/5 SR which is 12% threat reduction. Hence if you have subtlety and BoS, you are looking at 0.7*0.84*0.98 = 57.6% threat versus 65.9% threat. Just 8.3% less threat compared to 1/5 SR. This can certainly help you avoid some overaggro, but in the majority of cases it won't. I know some people say they feel a difference, but its simply wishfull thinking. Its only because healer aggro is a rare event.

What is certain is that without aggro dumps you wont pull aggro no matter what. Threat dumps means your overall threat will be low so fade will work. At the very worst you can fade pre-emptively. I often fade just before the pull starts so that there is zero chance I pull aggro in the first few seconds.



On the contrary. That is precicely when impPWS is the most important. You would only use PWS if the tank is low enough to be killed by the next hit. If that is the case every point is critical.

More importantly PWS is not just there for tanks, but also for saving DPS from death. At the end of the day imp PWS is temporary HP and imp PWS is worth an extra 30 temporary sta.

Untalented PWS, is simply not worth using unless you or your target have a pretty hefty -healing debuff. Its that simple. Its that extra 15% that boost it to the point where its competitive with flash heal. PWS talented is a safer but somewhat less efficient spell than flash heal. PWS vanilla is not safer and significantly less efficient that flash heal. 300 might not sound like much but its a great deal compared to the numbers you are dealing with.

Swiftmend heals for about 3k. Do you think there is a druid out there that would not take a 3 point talent improving it by 10%?

PWS/PoM, is functionally equivalent to swiftmend. Imp PWS increases its value by 10%.

You there are things you can do about your threat. Use more PWS and PoM, fade pre-emptively and so on. There is nothing you can do to circumvent the loss of power on PWS, except replace it with flash heal.

It is possible that silent resolve can help you in a sticky situation where CC breaks or where a kiter screws up, but if you dont have it someone else will. At the very worse a fade and a BoP from a paladin is probably all you will need.

 

Thorongil

Although this is a bit exaggerated in my opinion it quite neatly hits the point. Moreover, this "a few hundred hp won´t do the job" argument is kind of pointless. It´s always about "a few hundred hp". You could also skip ImpPW:F for the sake of the same argument. It also just provides a few points of stamina. You could also save your DKP for a new healing item, if it provides just a few further points of +heal. Admittedly I do exaggerate this comparison myself, but the principle point is: It´s always about 'a few points' of something in WoW. The simple point that can be derivated out of this Tier2-Disc-discussion is: If you feel you have aggro issues take SR, if you do not -> take ImpPW:S.

 

Closenocigar

@ Sinndir

This is on first page in trinkets overview:



It is pretty good, i use it all the time by lack of a better alternative, but i have to decide before each fight if i'll need the regen, or if i can use [Essence of the Martyr] for extra healing... [Earring of Soulful Meditation] and [Memento of Tyrande] have healing and regen combined into one trinket, making them more usefull overall, with [Earring of Soulful Meditation] having the extra benefit of having the choice when to get the regen...

Like stated above: an excellent option for those who do not have access to some of the above trinkets.

 

Isin

Hey guys, I have a COH spec that's very similar to the one outlined in the OP, but the other day someone asked me why I have 2 points in Healing Focus, and I was kind of stumped.

Since I'm primarily raid healing, I'm generally just spamming instants (Renew, PoM, CoH). Am I better off spending these points somewhere else? Like Extra crit in Holy Spec, Lower mana cost PoM with 2/2 Healing Prayers, or even just better survivability with more points in Spell Warding?

 

Flinkindolin

Just because you have an instant-cast doesn't mean you should only cast your instant-cast. Raid healing as CoH is too often reduced to "I just spam CoH." A well-played priest will take advantage of his or her entire arsenal, including but not limited to PoH, GHeal, Flash, and Binding Heal. All of those have a cast time.

Healing Focus might not be necessary if all you do is spam your instants. But... what if one of the Main Tank healers dies on Brutallus and your Raid Leader calls for you to switch to Tank heals to cover? If you don't have Healing Focus, are you going to say no because Meteor Slash casts will pushback your tank healing spells?

You have Healing Focus because you need to be prepared for anything. Having CoH does not limit you to CoH. Having CoH makes you a _great_ raid healer, but it in no way reduces you to _nothing but_ a raid healer. The biggest advantage a priest has is flexibility; a spell for every situation and a situation for every spell. If you skip Healing Focus you reduce your efficiency in key healing roles and really reduce yourself to _nothing but_ a raid healer. (to be extreme)

 

Sinndir

I really like the interesting discussion with PW:Shield; I think we all need to think of it more as a buffed than anything, not to mention if you are well coordinated you can stack them (I laugh when I see 4x shields on someone).

Shield gaining 30% of our healing makes it definitely viable.

I have no where near the +healing that some of you do (2156) here is my gains

Untalented - [1265 base + (Healing*0.30)] = 1912 absorb
Talented - [1265 base + (Healing*0.30)]*1.15 = 2199 absorb

A gain of almost 300 hp.

Have not seen the mention that it gives that small 2k buffer which can buy time for other healers, or yourself time to get another heal off.

Tough situation, but it is worth it, and I'm not sure the threat would be. I'll respec this week for Felmyst and see how it goes.

 

Vihermaali

Gurtogg Bloodboil - NPC - World of Warcraft
He's untauntable with debuffs on tanks that forces tank switches. In other words, they have to hold back on their threath so that the other tank can take over. In addition to that, the debuff bloodboil allows me to spam 0% overheal Circle of Healing non-stop.

Another example of where threath may be a problem: felmyst. Multiple (15-20+) undead adds spawning around a HUGE open area, with tank(s) having to run around picking them up, combined with "0% overheal non-stop CoH spam" environment.

Yes, some power to pw:shield is not insignificant: if threath reduction was a trainable skill I'd put the points in imp. pw:s instead. But threath can in some cases be a problem when you know how to spam spells hard enough. And don't really want to watch out for threath. Just like "when you pull aggro" is "a specal case" that is fully preventable and shouldn't happen, so is the situation "when you have to cast pw:s" on someone. But guess what you choose depends on person. Taking aggro is harder for me to prevent. Not because I am bad with aggro managment, but because I don't want to have to hold back on healing.