[Mage] 2.4 TC, aka Guys in Blue Dresses - Page 49

Snips · 08/06/08, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by magedot

I hope this is in the correct thread. I play a frost mage on my server, and I gear myself to use the extra spell hit from frostbolt. (I'm at 127 at the moment). I have encouraged a few people in my guild to do the same, but as of this past weekend's Gruul run, they noticed that they were getting more resists than they've seen before. I have a WWS of the run below and was looking at Azurefrosts data.

Wow Web Stats

He is a draenei mage with 127 spell hit (he might have been running with 114 I'm not totally sure). But in either case, during the Gruul fight he was at a 5% miss rate. Am I wrong with my numbers? Or has anyone else taken a look at this post 2.4.3 patch? I tried to search for any other "ghost hit" threads, but didn't see any.

Thanks for your help.

has someone got a definitive answer for this as of 07 August 2008?

I'm a frost mage.
I've read so may conflicting reports. I'm not "leet" myself, but i am worried i may be wasting 38 points of hit as i am currently capped at 164 because i was told this bug had been fixed long ago. if this is not true and the cap rate is still 126 for Frost, could someone please let me know.

Snips

• Wizeowel · 08/06/08, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Snips

has someone got a definitive answer for this as of 07 August 2008? ... I've read so may conflicting reports.

Gofa gave the answer. If someone, anyone, ever has proof about frostbolt being 'fixed' they are quite welcome to post that proof. It would need to be a very large sample size, perhaps 10000 frostbolts or so. It's just that after every patch someone asks this question or similar. "Hey guys since the latest patch it seems like Onyxia is doing more deep breaths."

Until someone does post some new research, you should trust the first post in this thread and not let yourself be influenced by rumour or speculation. So yeah you are 37 points of hit over capped.

freaknastee · 08/19/08, 3:26 AM

Originally Posted by Snips

has someone got a definitive answer for this as of 07 August 2008?

I'm a frost mage.
I've read so may conflicting reports. I'm not "leet" myself, but i am worried i may be wasting 38 points of hit as i am currently capped at 164 because i was told this bug had been fixed long ago. if this is not true and the cap rate is still 126 for Frost, could someone please let me know.

Snips

--------------------

According to my last WWS reports (40/0/21) it seems "ghost frost hit rating" is still in effect.
Wow Web Stats

Lurker - 74 hits, 0.9% missed <-- in range
Archi + Supremus, 0.0& missed <-- in range

Azgalor (low sample amount), 2 hits 0.0% miss <--- in range
Akama (low sample amount), 6 hits, 0.0% missed <--- in range

Kaz'Rogal, 41 hits, 0 misses <--- in range

Teron, can't figure out what WWS is saying. I got constructs 2nd so I was AB spamming. The only FB I cast was ap,pom,trinket,frostbolt. It did not count it as a "hit" but it did have a "max damage" statistic.

Here are the one's that make me doubt it, hence seems above.....

Rage - 5% miss, <--- wtf
All SSC bosses, 61 hit, 2.1% miss <--- wtf

All are with 40/0/21 3/5 arcane hit, 3/3 ele precision.
12.6 hit rating = 1%, 1 hit rating = 1/12.6
@124 hit rating
So I should only need 126 hit rating
soooo my % to hit should be 99-(0.079*2) = 98.842% (Is my math wrong?)

----------

Ok after writing all of that and reflecting on it, we do need a bigger sample >.<
I'll rock more hit rating and take another WWS sample and post an update...

Lord Loom · 08/19/08, 5:53 AM

I've been raiding deep frost lately and except for Rage (high frost resist + binary frost spell = huge "miss" rate regardless of spellhit) I'm getting results close enough to my theoretical hit chance that I have no reason to believe ghost hit doesn't work so indeed I don't know where these rumours always come from. For a take on this and input on sample size, refer to Wizeowel's post. Your sample size is, as you noticed, far too small to be of statistical significance, when 1-2 unlucky resists can greatly skew the percentage.

Anaxo · 08/19/08, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by freaknastee

Rage - 5% miss, <--- wtf
All SSC bosses, 61 hit, 2.1% miss <--- wtf

FYI, Rage Winterchill has a high frost resistance. Hence why your miss rate on him doesn't match anything else.

solbergb · 08/19/08, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by freaknastee

--------------------

Ok after writing all of that and reflecting on it, we do need a bigger sample >.<
I'll rock more hit rating and take another WWS sample and post an update...

Yes, your sample size is way too low to distinguish 2.1% vs 1.2%. This is especially
true as this is a sample size over different bosses that may or may not have frost
resistance mucking things up.

There are statistical techniques that will tell you how big a sample you need to
have a 99% confidence rating in the result and the deviation you can expect for
a given sample size. I was going to get all geeky and work it out but I'm rusty
by about 2 years on it and my license for my fancy statistics tool expired so I'm
afraid of giving out misinformation.

So the following is conservative, based on hazy memories of trying to distinguish
similar variances in quality projects:

For a good test, get a tank and healer, find a L70 raid boss they can tank pretty
much forever and spam frost bolt 1s. Get a sample size of at least 500 and
that's probably good enough to distinguish a 1% shift with reasonable confidence.

If you're trying to distinguish tenths of percents, you'll need more like 10k.

Murrena · 08/31/08, 6:17 AM

Hi, I am currently equipped with 4T6 pieces, 1156 dps with 28.27% fire crit and 8% haste. Almost all my gemming is on spellcrit+spd. Also I must mention that my gear is not fantastic and I am missing a few (in my opinion) crucial items (like Head piece and trinket from Illidan, as well as Tempest of Chaos and offhand from MH), but I am just unlucky, so I have to play with what I have.

I was "raised" with notion that crit is the most important stat (after capping hit) for a fire mage, and should start on 30% (unbuffed). When haste was introduced, I tried to balance spellcrit and haste, but prefered to get to around 30% before working on my haste.

Since recently I have been hearing from mages on my serv, that I should change gemming to forego crit in favour of haste. Any advise/opinion on this?

thanks

Docjowles · 08/31/08, 2:06 PM

This should really go in http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16781-mage_help_me_please/, but the mages you've been talking to are correct. Gemming for crit is about the worst thing you can do, since point-for-point, it takes far more crit rating to earn 1% crit than it does to earn 1% hit or haste. You don't want to completely ignore crit, but we get plenty of it on our gear anyway. You will get a much better return by gemming for haste or pure spell damage.

Shtarbuck · 09/25/08, 4:40 PM

As it stands right now, is there a popular school of thought with regard to what the two best trinkets to use are?
I see a LOT of mages using skull + head, but wasn't sure if that was just what they felt were the 2 best or of there was some reasoning behind it.

Bringing it up here for sake of it being mentioned as an issue in the original post.

From what I'm aware for 40/0/21 the 2 are SCB + Hex for the specs ability to stack all of it's CD's at once along with it being a very mana hungry spec making the SCB's benefits 2 fold. But I'm not aware of there being such a clear cut pair for Fire.

solbergb · 09/25/08, 4:47 PM

The answer is "it depends on your gear and spec" and to some extent "on your behavior"

As an example, a trinket that procs on randomly works better on a spec that casts lots of fast casting spells than lots of slow spells with moderate crit rates..up to the point where its internal cooldown makes the more frequent procs irrelevant. Stuff with +spell damage for limited time works better if you have talent-based cooldowns to stack it with...assuming you actually make use of it at the right time. If you are low on spell hit or run out of mana, some trinkets are more attractive. If you have trouble with on-use trinkets, using them properly, a trinket that randomly procs or just has a lot of raw spelldamage and no clicky thing might be better for you. If you die a lot because of low stamina and can't fix this with behavior, a stam trinket might be better than a DPS trinket.

This site:

Man Out of Time - Theorycraft-o-Matic

Will let you enter your stats and will rank trinkets in order of how much DPS they give you. The output is fairly good if your input data is ok, but there are some assumptions about rotations and behavior that may not match yours. It assumes a well played mage with good rotations, one of the standard raid specs and well timed cooldown use.

I don't know if it has had the review of RAWR, but it seems pretty good and is where I would go first if I had no idea what might be useful for me.