Smurrf

In looking ahead to WotLK, and the 10 talent points that will come with it, I find myself intrigued as to the potential specs that will become available. I'm really curious as to what new talents will show up deep in the new trees, and how powerful they're going to be.

Since we have no idea what those will be, though, and have no way to gauge them, I'd like to see what kind of alternative builds people can come up with for leveling in Northrend, just from existing talents.

For instance, a 41/0/20 spec (or any similar to the one linked) will be able to have UA/Ruin at level 71, leaving a solid 9 pts to place anywhere you fancy. Sadly, there's nothing else that's really interesting within reach in the Destro tree, so the options will exist for early Demo talents or for high end Aff talents.

A version of the 0/21/40 (or variants) can put 10 pts straight into Unholy Power & Master Demonologist, which opens up some more possibilities. Have an imp out in the early going of a fight for instance, to lessen initial threat, then pop out and sac a succubus for a nice boost in damage later on in the fight...just as one example.

A Felguard spec (or variants) could see full Shadow Mastery (as well as Siphon Life) at level 80. And what Affliction lock wouldn't mind having a Felguard running around, creating havoc?

I'd like to see what other people can come up with...I'm likely going to at least be leveling UA/Ruin because Affliction is just too much fun, but perhaps someone can come up with a viable hybrid with all three trees involved, or find a way to make other proposed (and trashed upon) specs much more viable.

Please, keep discussion to only current and existing talents. There's no way to tell how the trees will change, what new talents will come out, and speculation of those is better left elsewhere...this is just to get peoples' minds moving.

 

SchLing

Isn't it a bit early to talk about this? Considering the talents tree will most likely be re-done to fit the new top level like they did when The Burning Crusade came out.

 

Flamingcloud

Dots are horrible for leveling unless you plan on dotting everything and running away.. That leaves you pretty open the get ganked imo.. Only options really are felguard and destro with a sacrificed voidwalker/felhunter barring new talents that are good for leveling.

Felguard with ruin is probably the fastest for killing, and destro with sacced mp5/hp5 pet best for downtime.

 

Smurrf

Is it early? Sure it is. Is it too early? Eh, I don't think so. With confirmation that the expac is in Alpha, info is going to start coming out at us, hopefully, in short order.

It's entirely likely that the existing trees will get an update. With new talents, changes to existing talents, and so on, there's of course no way to know for sure until the new trees are revealed in all their glory. But I think the flavor of the individual trees will stay the same, and I don't foresee too much in the shifting around of where most talents are. I highly doubt that UA, for instance, will become a 21 pt talent. For the same reason, I don't think that Imp'd Shadow Bolt will see its place moved around either. Is Ruin likely to move? I would think so, given how cheap it will be to get...but that's pure speculation.

But for most specs, does it really matter if some of the filler talents get shuffled a bit? Not really. So long as S&F and Demonic Sacrifice combined cost 61 pts to max out, it won't matter if Imp'd Searing Pain get reduced to a 1 pt talent or not, or Imp'd Imp, VW, and Succubus all get combined to a single 5 pt talent. Warlocks are far more versatile than some other classes, and the addition of new points to spend isn't going to change that in the least.

Depends on your server type, I'd say. I presume you're on a PvP server, where leveling (if I understand correctly) is an entirely different beast than playing on a PvE server. I had no problems in dotting things up, fearing them, dotting more up, etc, until they all fell over dead. With life returns from Siphon Life, Drain Life, Death Coil, and FSW (which may end up still being viable as grinding gear, with the HP returns), dot & kill does have its place, I'd say.

 

Flamingcloud

I dont see why you would do a 20 second dot when you can just kill level 70 mobs in 3 seconds with two shadowbolts..

Or are you theorycrafting for a lower gear level then full sunwell? =p

 

ArethorCM

While I will most likely be going some form of a destro spec with a sacced VW, I'd have to disagree that DoT specs aren't viable for leveling. I leveled 60-70 as UA affliction and one of the big draws was that I was able to DoT and drain up 5-10 mobs at a time, depending on the type of mob. While the mobs may arguably die a little slower, the fact that you're able to pull a large number of mobs counterbalances it.

However, this is assuming that there are a decent sized clusters of melee mobs that you can essentially tank. In a single target situation I've found Destro with sacced VW to be the quickest way to rip through mobs.

I also think it's a bit early to speculate. As we saw with the talent changes for TBC, the trees changed enough that people changed their minds on leveling specs. Don't forget that they will also have to make sure that the trees are still balanced for PvP. With the current trees a typical SL/SL build can be extended down to 5/5 Contagion and Instant Howl of Terror.

 

kronchev

What?

Leveling as affliction is damn near easier than leveling felguard. In fact, I would say it IS easier, and yes, I play on a PVP server. "Dotting everything and running away", try dotting everything and HOTing. By the time the fear wears off 5,6 mobs are dead. Lifetap back up, bandage, repeat. As someone above said, yes you can 2 shadowbolt a mob dead in 3 seconds (nice amount of haste I guess), but its pretty bad for efficiency, which you seem to think is alright with a sac. It's not really.

Elitist Jerks forum: Now work safe, because you don't want to get caught wasting your company's time!

It was a question of how the abilities of the fight are handled. I did not know the answer so I come to the place where I expect to see well formulated, concise and correct answers. Not snotty comments. - eclectic778

Vent is only necessary because of bad players. - ebbv

 

ArethorCM

If you want to be even more efficient, as the mobs are feared you can lifetap and drain or pickup Imp. Drain Soul. This should limit your downtime more.

Destro with a sacced VW isn't terrible for efficiency as long as you are able to kill the mobs quickly. There is some regen time while moving to your next target and if your gear is good enough you won't get hit by melee mobs and will only be hit by 1 cast of ranged mobs. This is of course only speaking from experiences farming and doing dailies at current level and with Full BT/Hyjal gear.

 

Flamingcloud

I disagree, and would argue that affliction is the bad gear leveling spec (along with demo). Mana is near infnite with a sacced vw. Full sunwell destruction could probably get to level 75+ before a melee mob even hit them once. I've been affliction, i've tried the whole pull everything SL it all and collect loot, and found it to be significantly slower, more dangerous, and more health/mana intensive (you get hit by mobs a lot more, and dots are higher mana cost). I would definitely argue that affliction is by far the worst leveling spec.

 

ArethorCM

Unless they increase mob health considerably I'd have to agree with Flamingcloud in terms of efficiency. Once you hit 71 the option of picking up Shadowfury becomes available. Granted it's not the most mana efficient spell, but it will also help in reducing incoming damage and will give the warlock more control over mobs while leveling.

 

Vlar

What gear level were you trying that at? you are comparing it to being Destruction at Sunwell level. Going by personal experience, I changed from Affliction to Destruction at beginning Tier 5 level, and although it is becoming easier (still sucks for shard farming), I still can't farm as efficiently as I could by having my imp out and dotting everything in sight. Dark Pact is a major benefit to having no downtime

 

Flamingcloud

Around your gear level was the last time I was affliction, and even then I found destruction to be better especially on same level mobs. Add in about 100dmg 150 haste 100 crit and +6% dmg to shadowbolt on top of that and things die in 2-3 bolts and you can get 3-5 bolts off before things get to you. Downtime is decreased by so much when mobs don't hit you and you don't have to drainlife.

 

galzohar

If you made me pick a spec with current talents it'd probably be a felguard spec with picking ruin at 71. But since 51 point talents could have tremendous potential I think it's almost safe to assume the ultimate leveling spec will include one of these new 51 point talents and therefore you can't really speculate much until we see those talents. Anyway remember that a leveling spec starts at 70 not 80, therefore it should get the majority of its power at the earlier levels and not at 80 where it gets replaced anyway. Kinda reminds of of back in the days of Diablo 2 where everyone planned their skills based on a lvl99 where it actually doesn't matter how effective your leveling skills are at 99 becuase by that point you're done leveling I mean if a spec is nice at 70 and gets better at ~71-73 it could be nice, but if a spec gets most of its power at ~76-79 then it's not a very good leveling spec, as by the time you get its full power you're already done leveling and respec anyway.

 

Deathwing

Gotta agree flamingcloud, affliction is terrible. Any sort of overall killing speed(good luck getting a group of highly contested spawns when the expac releases) gain is nullified by either having lots of mobs beating on you(no, SL and DL do not negate mob dps) or running all over place looting your kills. Demonology is ok, would be better if the felguard was a bit tougher and wasn't such a mana whore.

Destruction is quite nice. 2-3 bolts(shadowburn if no crits), lifetap while going to next mob, repeat. And that's at my level of gear(T4/T5). If I go non-stop farming, I have to drink/eat a pod or bandage up every 20 kills. As for shards, that's quite easy. If you get a SB crit, more than likely your next SB or the one after it will kill the mob. Drain soul while the fatal SB is in flight.

 

weet

While I agree it is mostly irrelevant to discuss this without knowledge of the up to 51 pt talents, I think certain people are wrongly estimating a couple of things. While currently i prefer farming as destro simply because I don't have to think as much and we overgear 65-70 non elites but a large margin, it is alot different when this is not the case.

The ability to move while killing mobs, killing mobs with 3 hasted gcds and dragging mobs as they die on top of you really is a big factor in comparing downtime and kill speed. Questing is alot different from grinding for cash at level cap and the ability to multi pull 3+ mobs while moving and having them all die at your feet is very significant when going from mob hub to next one. Talk of taking more damage is largely irrellevant when you are not pulling mobs non-stop as along as the extra hp deficit isn't enough to stop one from dying until you move along to the next area. Destruction also takes alot more damage/takes longer when you are forced to pull multiple higher level mobs.

Ultimately as it stands I think affliction based, felguard based and destro based builds will all level fine it would more come down to personal preference as well as the relative mob hp levels.

 

Lovecraft

One of affliction's (and demonology, I suppose) main levelling draws is that it gives you the option of soloing numerous elite group quests that destruction's lack of mobility would struggle with. For example, at level 61 I managed to solo the Overlord quest in HFP - affliction gives you a lot of tools and safety nets for doing things like this. It may be possible to do as destro, but it wasn't exactly easy with what I would call the best spec for it.

Destruction will certainly kill faster, especially now most warlocks can easily get the gear for it, but it can't match the flexibility that a DoT/drain build (aff or demo) brings, which I would argue is most valuable when you're doing unknown content and exotic quests.

It's not a criticism of destruction in any way, more of a defence of affliction for levelling.

 

dakalro

I find SL/SL (SL Succu on defensive, 2xT5, SL/Corr/CoA) the fastest mass killing spec for warlocks. Depending on mob clustering it can go from awesome at Legion Hold (0 downtime) to so so when killing mobs where you can't reach the next one in 1-2 GCDs so you aren't continuously dotting. Depending on how Northrend areas are I'll go with either SL/SL or normal PvE destro spec with sacced VW, but that one isn't a nice leveling spec in a ganking area.

 

Pintofbrew

No warlock connoisseur m'self but it seems that there are exponents of either spec who are quite strongly-minded: Some seem to think that the MC-Hammer style of Affli to be an indication of superiority, others preferring a mage-style stand-and-nuke noting that running around to find a mob to loot is a waste of time.

From my personal (lacking) experience I'd say the most valuable tool I found in Affli for leveling purposes was the combination of drain life to negate down time and Dark pact. The problem with this however, is that past lvl 50 or so the dps difference between Drain Life and SB is such that it's debatable whether it's better to bolt your way through a mob and drink every few rather than LT a few times, DOT one mob less, drain it down to "recharge" etc. It makes for interesting micro-management and resource-control but it surely isn't efficient in time terms.

I'd think that by 80 (amazingly breath-taking 40-51 talents aside) a 31/0/40 would be the hybrid of choice. No more mana issues, Blood Pact for all (rejoice!) SnF keeping the bolts nice and plump and the option of non-trivial Drain Life in an emergency. Lame 21-35 talents in destro make it a rather bad choice, however, for leveling.

At 64 I respecced an odd and rather silly 9/x/44+ for incinerate and found the life-gain from Soul Leach, translated into mana with I-LT, combined with mana from I-Drain Soul (and the rather depressingly lame Cataclysm) made for much reduced downtime compared to an SB spam due to Incinerate's inherent efficiency. Perhaps it's worth considering Incin as a Destro-spam leveling spell rather than SB?

 

dakalro

The benefit of SL/SL is in the fact that you don't even need DL for 100% uptime and you don't drain tank anything. The spec is all about casting continuously and always be moving (only instant DoTs on mobs, def succu as another dot, SL for reduced damage, 2T5 for no damage on pet) totalling 2 mobs every 10.5 seconds, bit faster with haste. You do lose durability like a tank though.

And destro with sacced VW is far from no downtime, you still have to drink every 10 minutes or so and by the time you need to drink you're on dangerously low HP for a PvP server. Though tailoring a spec for "grinding" durability would prolly mean 3/3 Leech. But it has the advantage of fast killing/mob, allowing for very good speed in a scarcely populated area (or very crowded with players as WotLK start will be). And you usually never 2-shot any mob that doesn't have ridiculously low hp with sacced VW unless you crit.