Only thing i can find it theoretically useful is Expertise. For example should there be boss where expertise is useless, but is definetly dps race, it could be useful to swap out expertise items for something else.

But that example has nothing to do with a change an EP values so radical that you had to swap out other items because of an item that you just equipped - you're just describing expertise as being situationally useful.

Sorry if it's not really the subject of the thread. (sorry for my english too, I'm french, I hope you could understand what I'll write :p )

I'm Enhancement chaman and I'm looking for what will be my targeted gear for End BT.

So I wanted to test my targeted stuff with yo's simulator and test my dps with different combination of gear. So I'm searching a character sheet simulater or something like that. You enter the stuff you want to equip and it calculate your PA, your % crit, ...
Does such a program or website exist?

Warcrafter is a site where you can plan gear for yourself if that's what you want.

thanks a lot. It's exactly what I was looking for ^^

So if I can get a Gem with 10 Attack Power, should I use that over a Gem with +8 STR?

Did you mean 20AP? Either way, some very simple math will give you the answer. (Hint - 1 Str = 2AP or 2.2 with BoK)

Happened just a few weeks ago -- somebody did the numbers and discovered that, with the stated T5 stats, [Talon of the Phoenix] was a superior offhand to [Rising Tide], and with the stated T6 stats, the inverse was true. If you've got the Phoenix, and you have a chance to bid on RT, you're gonna want to know which is better for your current gear, and if possible, how much better the RT will be when you DO get T6 stats.

On the contrary -- the difference can be very big. I've seen swings of 20-30 EP after a few simple upgrades (almost always because the piece in question traded crit for hit or expertise). Take that [Shapeshifter's Signet]...for a while, it was best in game according to your EP. According to mine, it's a sidegrade to the Violet Eye rep ring.

Of course, I'm not dealing with anywhere NEAR top end gear -- we've already come to the conclusion that the best gear is the best pretty much anyway you slice it. This may be why some of you don't see the same importance to this that I do. But if at the top end, the best is the best, there is no point to having EP, let alone tiered EP. EP only exists to assist in gearing up TO the best.

This isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the actual situation where gear is accessible, and you need to determine how much of an upgrade it is before rolling, bidding or trading badges for it. This is the situation that vast majority of shamans have to deal with. Do I get the badge gloves, or the badge pants? They cost the same, and have the same iLvl, but have very different stats (haste vs armor pen vs hit rating, etc). This question can only accurately be answered by personal EP: what gear do you have and what gear could you conceivably have a month from now?

For RED Gems:

24 AP > 10 STR > 20 AP > 8 STR > 16 AP > 6 STR > 12 AP

Keep in mind, 5 STR / 5 CRIT might be better than 20 AP or 8 STR, but it's really based on what your AEP values are. Chances are 20 AP will still be better, but 8 str may not

I don't recall it being the case that the weapon was better with one set of stats but worse with the other, it was a case that simulation was showing that the Talon happened to be a better OH than the Tide, not that the EP value was different. Besides the Talon is a 2.7 and the Tide a 2.6, so if someone was using the EP DPS values for those then the comparison was invalid anyways.

[Talon of the Phoenix] is MH only. I presume it was MH question, not offhand. There is no set way to compare 2.7 vs 2.6 speed weapons altough on paper.

I'm not positive, but I'm guessing its gonna be a onehander next patch? The new change et all, like Dragonstrike?

(P.S: the buff on Dragonstrike stacks, so dualwielding Dragonstrikes will be quite amazing)

I doubt Talon going to be one-handed weapon, i recall reading someone already mentioning it is still MH. Reason for this is that it is kind of a set MH + OH and different hands need different graphics from what i have understood. Same reasoning applies to all fist weapons. Especially looking at the badge Vanir set -- 3 weapons instead 2 (One Hand + Offhand for rogues opposed to current MH + 2 different Offhand).

Concerning Dragonstrike, i guess we better wait till live to see if it is oversight or intended.

Yes, talon is still MH only as well as Mounting Vengeance OH only.

Whoa whoa whoa whats this about dual wielding dragonstrikes?? I've been debating a way to get a new mainhaind and had wondered what it would be like to have 2 x the haste proc from dragonstrike... so they're now allowing it to go off hand in the new patch and this is confirmed?

They're non-unique and 1 handed on the PTR.

I've been hoping for this as well, the sim shows Dragonstrike as being on par with S3 and the badge items for me, but with S4 just around the corner I'm sure its days are numbered. We can point to the engineering helms as precedent for an additional tier of upgrades but it's probably still a long-shot. Still the idea of Dual-wielding a S4 equivalent pair of BS maces is pretty exciting. If it doesn't happen though I just hope one of the last 2 Sunwell bosses is holding a decent MH for us.

The Engineering helm is firmly T6 level however (inferior to Cursed Vision), so the precedent really isnt there. Although more options for endgame mainhands would be welcome.

Actually, the new engineering helms are ilvl159, the same ilvl as non-KJ Sunwell boss drops and S4. How well they've been itemized varies depending on what class you are, some of them are very good.

The new engineering helms are all worse than Cursed Vision. Although the mail one is much worse than the leather one, but it doesn't matter because they are all class restricted.

Right... And the whole issue has nothing to do with the quality of the engineering items, it was pointing out that engineers got a new tier of Sunwell ilvl upgrades for their craftables. I was just saying it would be nice if blacksmithing got the same.

The mail one isn't worse than the leather one. I haven't actually done all the maths but it looks better than Cursed Vision too. Are you sure you're looking at the right ones? For reference:

[Surestrike Goggles v2.0]
[Schematic: Quad Deathblow X44 Goggles]
[Cursed Vision of Sargeras]