Sashiel

If Yo is reading this, any chance OH Dragonstrike could be added to the sim? As it stands, I'm having trouble deciding if I should buy the badge OH, or wait until I can make a second Dragonstrike and spend my badges on a Bloodlust Brooch.

 

Wolflord

Morelis is right with respect to the new Goggles in that they are Sunwell ilevel, although I still consider them tier 6 quality.

For referance with my current EP values I rate:
Cursed Vision - 390
Surestrike 3.0 (mail) - 375
Deathblow (leather) - 360

Though, granted, they are considerably better than all other tier 6 level helms, still nothing particularly game changing (no real reason to level Engineering for them), especially considering the scarcity of the recipes.

 

Aximous

With my values cursed vision is better by 18EP.
2.02agi
2.08crit
1.85hit
cursed vision 416.47
surestrike 398.06

 

spanko

You're right the mail one is slightly better than the leather one, but Cursed Vision is still definitely better than both.

 

Mengus

Why even compare the leather engineering helm to anything, it's not like a shaman can make it (unless Blizzard decides to change how Engineering works).

Though, the argument for going from Eng to LW once you get a CVOS has a lot of merit, especially for the craftable leather gear...

 

◊ Wraithlin

Is anyone else getting wierd values like this if they have only small values of haste ?
My EP:
Str: 2.20
Agi: 2.00
Crit: 2.06
Haste: 1.73
Hit: 1.9
Expertise: 3.47

 

Aximous

Str: 2.20
Agi: 2.02
Crit: 2.08
Haste: 1.72
Hit: 1.85
Expertise: 3.3
These are my values, they seem almost identical to yours. I don't think there's anything strange about the values but I found that rather strange that I have somewhat better gear than you (at least I think so) and our values are almost exactly the same.

 

Quamutei

Using EP values though, how do we rate Dragonstrike? Do we use (212*1.72) for both MH and OH?

 

• Daler

Only if you have 100% uptime on the proc.

 

Veritas17

Well what's the passive haste worth of the dragonstrike proc? Is there a normalized stat we could pull from it and pluck that into Yo!'s?

 

• Daler

Well, at the moment you can only ballpark it. It hasn't gone live as is, and I would not be surprised to see it nerfed to refreshing instead of stacking (a la executioner).

That said, set up Yo's as if you were wielding 2 dragonstrikes (stat- and buff-wise). Run it without the haste proc selected. Note DPS.

Now run it again with the haste proc turned on. Check the DPS difference to get the value of 1 Dragonstrike's haste proc, then multiply it by 2.

It'd be a VERY rough ballpark, but it should get you started. Really, until it goes live, all this is just speculation. If you're concerned about the mats, start collecting what you can. Worst case scenario, you can sell them on the AH for some coin.

 

Veritas17

Well up until tonight, that was my MH weapon for about 8 months or so. I just got a syphon tonight, but i've already got the best off hand in the game at the moment. What i'm interested to see if taking the damage hit would be worth getting the haste proc for my main hand weapon. So using the dragonstrike as an off hand and syphon as a main i'd like to see what the damage results of that could be...

 

• Daler

That should be easy enough to model. Input your stats as if you were DW Syphon MH/Dragonstrike OH. Then simply turn on the DW proc modeler. Proc rates don't alter between MH and OH (aside from a tiny amount more MH hits than OH hits), and since the proc is a flat haste buff, it should be a decent approximation.

I'm guessing the Syphon/MV combo will come out on top, but that's what Yo's sim is for.

 

Quamutei

In doing this with general stats, two 96.7(DPS) Weapons, adding the [Dragonstrike] haste proc increases the estimated DPS Value from 1252 - 1296.


So in a somewhat conclusion:


[Dragonstrike] / [Dragonstrike] = 1296 DPS (Apx)

[Syphon of the Nathrezim] / [Rising Tide] = 1260 DPS (Apx)

This is using generalized stats, with my passive haste. (9%)

I'm going to do a few more tests with some more numbers.

 

Quamutei

All of my stats without my haste gear on in Yo's this time, comparing [Syphon of the Nathrezim] / [Rising Tide] to an estimated [Dragonstrike] / [Dragonstrike] : :



My stats without my haste gear: 1338 DPS - [Syphon of the Nathrezim] / [Rising Tide]
My stats without my haste gear: 1350 DPS - [Dragonstrike] / [Dragonstrike]


So, should haste have a higher EP Rating?

 

Veritas17

Good question... and this is going to sound silly, but i'm trying to figure out exactly how to use the EP values from Yo!'s to my advantage. Do I see the weighted amounts and start seeking that as an active stat to increase? I'm assuming so but I hate doing that especially on these boards.

 

Audrix

I have a doubt/confussion/etc about personal EP. Lets say ok I go into YO's sim input my data and I get my "personal EP values" but what does this really mean? What if I'm geared wrong? Are these values any good? What if I dont want to wear leather becuase I fell bad about taking it over rogues? What about the other mail non tier pieces that hunters have bid on them? Badge gear is also an issue when trying to chose. Why is T6 ehn. set rated so bad? I understand the itemization part but shouldn't tier items be better than non tier?

I'm currently using the EP mod which is kinda handy but its numbers sometimes dont make sence to me. In addition I been using Loot rank and lootzor which has also contribute to this mess becuase each has a different criteria when one inputs the same EP values.

T5 was so much easier to handle than T6 /sigh Sorry about the rant feeling kinda fustrated at the moment thinking of probaly droping alchemy for leatherworking since Sunwell seem to have some very good patterns like the chest and the gloves.

 

frozndevl

What you do is calculate the EP value of a certain item, and then compare that to a potential upgrade. If the upgrade has a higher EP value, congratulations, you can now to more potential DPS.

At this point, run the simulator again because your EP values may have changed.

 

• Daler

Yes, it should be. But it isn't. Hence both the frustration and the low rating in comparison to better pieces (quick e.g., [Bow-stitched Leggings] vs. [Skyshatter Pants]).

@Audrix: Don't use lootzor. If you use Lootrank, make sure you're inputting your EP values from the sim to get an accurate ranking.

 

Aximous

Anyone else noticed more than usual flame shock resists on archimonde since 2.4?
Example WWS

 

Ardonomus

You wouldn't happen to have respecced from resto subspec to elemental subspec recently, would you?

 

Aximous

I did yes but the increase in resists wasn't 3% but rather like 20% which seems kinda odd to me and this extreme resist rate mostly happens only on archimonde and only with flame shock, earth shock is just usual.

 

Atren

Flame shock has partial resists, are those counted (have not used WWS so i dont know)? Also the size of example is extreemly low.

Concerning DS i doubt it will be best to DW it actually. It already now is not best MH and Mounting Vengeance is superior to anything we can wield in MH probably if it was MH.

 

Artoxia

Hi.

I just wanted to find out what my EP Values for my actual equipment are. I used Yo!'s simulator with diffrent hours of hack'n'slash and i am a little confused about the results:

My EP Values for 5000 Hours of hack'n'slash:

2.12 Crit
2.02 Hit
1.77 Haste
0.35 ArP
2.20 Strenght
2.06 Agility
3.49 Expertise

My EP Values for 500 Hours of hack'n'slash:

2.27 Crit
2.16 Hit
2.02 Haste
0.34 ArP
2.20 Strenght
2.21 Agility
3.55 Expertise

My EP Values for 100 Hours of hack'n'slash:

1.77 Crit
1.63 Hit
2.25 Haste
0.37 ArP
2.20 Strenght
1.72 Agility
3.43 Expertise

Especially the results from "100 hrs" and "500 hrs" differ a lot from each other. Wich setup would be the best to find "my" EP Values?

 

◊ Embar

From the 3 you posted, I'd take the 5000 hours set. As a rule of thumb, the longer, the better. I'm sure someone with better math can explain this better than I can though.

Also, Yo's sim does state to use at least 1000 hours for any EP calculations.