david0925

Just made a Drakefist on live to play with it a bit. I have yet to get a double proc of Haste from it and DS. However, it seems to refresh itself a lot.

Any intuitive or calculated thoughts on that?

Maniq is my hero

 

Sashiel

From the sounds of it, dual-DS is just refreshing the buff on live, just as it was on the PTR. I'm still tempted to make a second one since I have all the mats I need already, and I have tons of things I'd like to buy with badges other than the OH. I'm hoping Yo's sim is updated soon so I can see how much dps I'm losing by using the second DS.

 

Joukoh

Is there a excel sheet, programmed for an enhancement shaman only, where test different kind of gear/enchants and see what kind of damage output you get?

If there is, give link in reply please

 

Skiace

No, and if you read this you'll understand why.

 

Shegokigo

Explain Please:

Got a new piece of gear (Nether Shadow Tunic), gemmed and enchanted it. Now I run Yo's for my new EP and it's telling me these things.

Vengeance Wrap > Cloak of Fiends
Mantle of Darkenss > Shoulderpads of the Stranger
Nyn'Jah's Tabi Boots > Soft Step Boots of Tracking.

So I change gear, get the NEW EP from that gear, run Yo's and my DPS has dropped by 10pts?

WTH am I doing wrong?

 

Taowth

Yo's takes the imputted values and outputs EP for gains from that base set of values. Thus its Ep is dependant on what pieces you have as a whole, aiming EP for your next upgrade.
But what you did was you took its values as a whole, and then changed out 3 pieces. If you do it 1 piece at a time, switching out values, you'll probably see that (for example) where the changing of chests makes vengeanve wrap better, changing chest and wrap probably doesnt make mantle of darkness better.
Something along those lines.

 

Skiace

I have recently had a problem with Yo's sim which may or may not be your issue. The output Lootrank string was setting ranged ap to 1 as well as melee ap, so it was counting every point of AP on gear twice, which screwed up a lot of things. In particular, it highly overvalued gem slots due to 20AP gems being counted as 40.

 

frozndevl

I just want to confirm that this is not an isolated bug. I had the same problem today; easily solved by changing the Ranged AP down to 0 when you get to lootrank.

 

RaceBannon42

I had the same thing happen to me today. It took me a few minutes to figure out why all my values were off and why my Liar's Tongue Gloves had suddenly jumped way up on the chart.

 

Shegokigo

Yep, this fixed my problem.

I'd also like to ask a question I've had for a long time, why can I not import my profile from armory? It'd really help do my parses faster.

 

Irosk

Ok heres the situation,

Group compisition: Resto shaman, 2h arms warrior, combat swords rogue, survival 17%+agi hunter, BM Hunter

I am looking for some feedback as to wether GoA or WF totem would be better? General gear level is BT/MH and some high tier SSC/TK.

Thanks in advance, Irosk.

 

• promdates

Perhaps reading the Enhancement Shaman Theorycraft Think Tank post should enlighten you as to what you should do. Arms warriors should get Windfury, simple fact. Without it, their dps is less than stellar, and so is their rage generation. I think at one point, the original thread said if DPS Warrior*2+Combat Sword Rogues+Ret Paladins>Hunters+Ferals then WF. Either way, with a DPS Warrior and a Sword Rogue, you should really give them Windfury.

"On a scale of one to mein kampf, how many racists does it take to make a guild look terrible?"

[03:28] L_J: it's "olololo hero class"

[01:09:39] <DeeNogger> Any of the resident grammer nazis on right now?

 

Shegokigo

Here's another oddity for Yo's EP.

I've run 5 100,000hr EP calculations, and everytime I'm getting a haste value of 1.04 or lower.

So it's showing my Cloak of Fiends being a far behind item of my Vengeance Wrap, yet when I swap, my DPS stays the same in the parses...

Any clue what's causing the huge drop in Haste EP in Yo's recently?

 

Killme888

Honestly, this is one of the biggest misconceptions, arms warrior does not gain that much of a dps gain from WF, fury does. Looking through WWS, white dmg + heroic for arms is about 35% of their damage, while fury warriors is about 65%.

Someone back in the big enhancement thread did the math, and arms warrior gain roughly 3% more damage, rogues gain about 1.5% with WF vs GoA + poisons/sharpening stones, while enh/druids/hunters gain 3% more damage with GoA.

So in that particular case, I'd say GoA is better, and that's not even factoring the extra AP everyone would get from the surv hunter with the extra agi.

 

Areus

With the new changes to Recount, it shows the number of WF Attacks that members of your group recieved. Through a BT clear, WF made up ~5-6% of our combat rogues damage, and 7-8% of our Arms Warriors damage. That is over the course of the entire evening.

Its nice that this is now a veiwable stat in-game, and it also helps to show how much of thier damage is coming from Sword Specialization as well. With these changes, as where damage is coming from become more visible, it becomes harder and harder to not drop WF when at least 2 people in your group benefit from it.

 

Killme888

And.. how much damage would they gain when they use sharpening stones/poisons + GoA? Exactly, now stop spreading more misinformation. We already know how much they would benefit from WF totem without recount, we didn't just pull numbers out of nowhere to compare them.

 

Allev

delete me please.

 

Touf

That's a terrible analysis. Arms warriors aren't viable without windfury because they won't have enough rage to use their abilities. The rage from the extra swing is required to keep any sort of cycle going. If you really want to use GoA just ditch the warrior somewhere.

 

Killme888

Obviously something that goes off every 10-15 seconds on average is gonna somehow give you all the rage you would need.. right? I don't see warriors have rage problems with end game gear keeping up their cycle, the rage from WF proc would just be used for heroic strike.

 

• promdates

So when in doubt, twist WF/GoA... If you have a Ret Paladin in your raid, JoW will help you a lot. Without one, you'll end up drinking mana pots and using SR a bit more offensive like.

Perhaps the Arms Warrior TTT thread will say something about WF or no. I seem to recall our Arms Warrior coping something about being worthless without WF, and he's complained in the past when he wasn't in a shaman group or didn't get WF because he ended up almost rage starved.

Not to mention the Shaman TTT has a section about setting up groups, and about what totem to drop when you have certain classes in the group. Now, unless everything written before now was totally wrong, you should find cited proof first and show Malan the info so he can change it and cite the correction.

"On a scale of one to mein kampf, how many racists does it take to make a guild look terrible?"

[03:28] L_J: it's "olololo hero class"

[01:09:39] <DeeNogger> Any of the resident grammer nazis on right now?

 

Killme888

Oh I agree, it'd be so boring playing enhancement if I don't twist. But it just bothers me whenever people see that a single warriors in the group, that wf should be placed down without question. While that would've been true before the instant attack change, it's not so much anymore.

http://elitistjerks.com/615828-post6511.html

Shows how much dps difference WF vs Agi/poison is for rogues, unfortunately I couldn't find one for warriors. With that specific group comp in question, since the shaman is resto and can't twist, it comes out about even regardless of what totem was dropped.

 

• Vulajin

That comparison is horribly inaccurate and was based on a version of the rogue spreadsheet that woefully underestimated Windfury. A more accurate comparison has me at 2020 DPS with only WF, and 1947 DPS with GoA+IP. Twisted totems give me 2081 DPS.

 

Areus

It's not misinformation. It's correcting you 1.5-3% that you posted above me.

The group that I run with also gets WF/GoA twisted on bosses so I have no doubts as to the benefits of GoA for the group. WF is the better buff, and if you can't twist or dont want to twist that is your own perogative. It is no misconception that WF is the better buff, stop trying to debunk that unless you come back with more solid information.

 

Killme888

...

Do you even read? Noone is arguing that WF is better of the two totems, what we're trying to figure out is that which is better for that specific group setup: Resto shaman / Arms / Rogue / BM Hunter / Survival hunter. Obviously WF is better for Arms/Rogue, but the other two gets no benefit whatsoever, and since the shaman is resto, he can't really twist.

 

Areus

I'm sorry I misunderstood you and that your raid cannot manage a good melee group and forces you to make these REALLY HARD decisions. I was just correcting your 1-3% increase for the 2 classes you mentioned which was factually wrong. Don't take it so personally.

In a group like that, whichever people in your raid happen to do more damage drop what benefits them more. If your melee are stellar performers then drop WF, if your ranged is top notch, drop GoA. Or take two weeks, WWS both times, do one of each and see which one yeilds better performance. There are options abound.

While we're at it, lets just look at all the other random groups that can be made while we're at it...