Enhancement - EP discussion - Page 7

Killme888 · 05/16/08, 1:22 AM

Again, your reading comprehension is astounding, or rather the lack of. Someone asked the question, not me, I would never for the life of me make that shitty group. And the 3% increase was comparing WF vs Agi/poison, not just how much WF itself would give.

Philondra · 05/16/08, 2:07 AM

It recently occurred to me that I may be using Yo's Simulator incorrectly with regards to weapon speed. Yo's simulator asks for (directly quoted): "Stats from your paperdoll when out of raid buffs. That is stats from gear + "naked" stats + stats from talents. Use buffs page to select your buffs. If some buffs are missing - input them directly to stats."

Given that my base weapon speed is 2.5 MH and 2.6 OH and there is a separate space in which to enter haste rating, should I enter the base, pre-haste weapon speed, or the weapon speed as shown in the paperdoll (in my case, 5.20% haste = 2.38 MH/2.48 OH)? I have previously entered the base weapon speed as shown on the item, but lately I have been wondering if that was just a reading comprehension error on my part and I should actually enter the paperdoll weapon speeds. Can anyone clarify this for me?

frozndevl · 05/16/08, 1:18 PM

You should enter the base weapon speed, 2.5MH and 2.6OH and then enter your haste % into the haste field.

Neurosisxeno · 05/17/08, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Philondra

It recently occurred to me that I may be using Yo's Simulator incorrectly with regards to weapon speed. Yo's simulator asks for (directly quoted): "Stats from your paperdoll when out of raid buffs. That is stats from gear + "naked" stats + stats from talents. Use buffs page to select your buffs. If some buffs are missing - input them directly to stats."

Given that my base weapon speed is 2.5 MH and 2.6 OH and there is a separate space in which to enter haste rating, should I enter the base, pre-haste weapon speed, or the weapon speed as shown in the paperdoll (in my case, 5.20% haste = 2.38 MH/2.48 OH)? I have previously entered the base weapon speed as shown on the item, but lately I have been wondering if that was just a reading comprehension error on my part and I should actually enter the paperdoll weapon speeds. Can anyone clarify this for me?

There's a space for Haste % on the 4th line...

You enter your Weapon Speeds as they appear on the weapon. So in your case as you stated, 2.5 MH and 2.6 OH.

Malan · 05/18/08, 12:35 AM

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...derhauberk.jpg
New drop off Muru. Compare it to Bladed Chaos Tunic.

← Click Here

Binkenstein · 05/18/08, 1:36 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...derhauberk.jpg
New drop off Muru. Compare it to Bladed Chaos Tunic.

← Click Here

It's not like they couldn't have made one with lots of strength, more crit rating, and three red sockets to exchange with that + a sunmote.

Neurosisxeno · 05/18/08, 4:01 AM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

It's not like they couldn't have made one with lots of strength, more crit rating, and three red sockets to exchange with that + a sunmote.

Good items for Enhancement Shaman that aren't directly tailored for another class? Blasphemous.

Hornbreakerz · 05/18/08, 8:16 AM

Since Lootrank now weighs weapon speed aswell, what do you think I should put in there?

Malan · 05/18/08, 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

It's not like they couldn't have made one with lots of strength, more crit rating, and three red sockets to exchange with that + a sunmote.

That's the part I'm not understanding. If you can get Boomkin gear with sunmotes, and Retadin gear with sunmotes, why the hell didn't they make some tailored gear for Enhancement there too?

Mindrila · 05/18/08, 9:57 AM

Because we are:
a) simply overpowered and can do enough damage naked
b) simply not worth spending a second thought on

That's the impression I get...

Morelis · 05/18/08, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

That's the part I'm not understanding. If you can get Boomkin gear with sunmotes, and Retadin gear with sunmotes, why the hell didn't they make some tailored gear for Enhancement there too?

You know if they did it would just be loaded with Int or even possibly Mp5. I'll gladly wear leather and trade Str for AP if it means not pissing a good portion of the item budget away on useless stats.

Neurosisxeno · 05/18/08, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Morelis

You know if they did it would just be loaded with Int or even possibly Mp5. I'll gladly wear leather and trade Str for AP if it means not pissing a good portion of the item budget away on useless stats.

Apparently they don't realize that Enhancement Shaman aren't like Hunters and we don't need ridiculous amounts of Mana and Mana Per 5 to keep our Mana Pool up. I know with SR and Water Shield alone I can keep my mana up on all fights (except Gurtogg where SR's are usually saved for Fel Rage). With Judgment of Wisdom factored in it is more of a task to run out of mana than it is to keep it up.

Anyways it appears Shaman will have to continue battling Rogues for their gear =/

Krom[Fenris] · 05/18/08, 4:32 PM

Originally Posted by Neurosisxeno

Apparently they don't realize that Enhancement Shaman aren't like Hunters and we don't need ridiculous amounts of Mana and Mana Per 5 to keep our Mana Pool up. I know with SR and Water Shield alone I can keep my mana up on all fights (except Gurtogg where SR's are usually saved for Fel Rage). With Judgment of Wisdom factored in it is more of a task to run out of mana than it is to keep it up.

Anyways it appears Shaman will have to continue battling Rogues for their gear =/

That's the thing tho, SOMEONE at Blizzard must have some small idea because the 3 new T6 set pieces are itemized great. I think option b) was the likelier culprit, we just weren't worth the time. Either that, or they didn't want Hunter loot to turn into Shaman loot for some anal reason.

I don't know. They need to change things obviously, but until then make mine leather.

Malan · 05/18/08, 7:47 PM

By the way, due to many competing factors (increased work responsibilities + websense at work, wife, raiding) I have had very little time to keep up with much of anything in the Enhancement article. I'm locked out of EJ at my new office (there's a proxy option but its a huge pain in the ass to use) and I just moved into a new place and have husbandly duties. So... I am looking for someone who is active enough on the board to keep up with all the corrections etc that might be able to take over maintaining the article. I asked TootsHepcat but he's got basically the same problems I do.

Propel · 05/22/08, 7:01 PM

Originally Posted by Yo!

You calculated benefit of going form 0 to 5% not beyond 5%, try checking what will happen with your settings with 5% haste in place and increasing it to 6% and beyond. It is possible that you hit the same wall as Sebudai did - the point where further increasing haste brings greatly reduced benefit but without the gear that brought those amounts of haste and crit (pushed % of strikes hasted by flurry to 90%+) you would get EP values suggesting back to this gear. I guess this point is the speculated sub 1.5 haste where you are guaranteed to miss 4 windfurries and wait additional 1.4 sec after WF cooldown for the chance to proc it instead of missing just 2 WF and having a chance to proc it immediatly after WF cooldown. It is similar to what people start to observe while reaching expertise limit (3xT6 + shard): EP value for further increasing EP becomes 0 and those items drop down in lootrank not reflecting great use of this stat in place already.

Wearing Hard Khorium Choker plus T6 belt/boots puts you at 4.95% haste, which by my understanding of your post is the ideal passive haste to be at. If so, are the values of [Blackened Naaru Sliver], [Duplicitous Guise] & [Cloak of Unforgivable Sin] diminished?

lugbruz · 05/23/08, 9:38 PM

The AEP ratings for trinkets indicate clearly which trinkets are most powerful; however, much of my output comes from damage done when bloodlust/orc racial/drums/haste pots are used simultaneously. In this context, does an on-use trinket such as the Bloodlust Brooch (T6 AEP 118.33 with a 278/20sec buff) outperform something like the Tsunami Talisman (random chance to proc 340 AP for 10 seconds) that cannot be timed?

I'm unable to find any data about this.

If someone could point me in the right direction...

Atren · 05/24/08, 2:59 AM

Originally Posted by lugbruz

The AEP ratings for trinkets indicate clearly which trinkets are most powerful; however, much of my output comes from damage done when bloodlust/orc racial/drums/haste pots are used simultaneously. In this context, does an on-use trinket such as the Bloodlust Brooch (T6 AEP 118.33 with a 278/20sec buff) outperform something like the Tsunami Talisman (random chance to proc 340 AP for 10 seconds) that cannot be timed?

I'm unable to find any data about this.

If someone could point me in the right direction...

You can time it other way somewhat -- use others when it procs.

Concerning gear -- i think problem is blizzard views us and hunters close enough in itemization so no motes needed.

lugbruz · 05/24/08, 11:33 AM

Thanks, but that in no way answers the question.

McHompHomp · 05/25/08, 5:31 AM

I have looked high and low for a definitive number of +hit and can not find it. I am somewhat new to Shamans, so bare with me. I would also like to know...Why no +hit gems? I suppose I wouldn't need em if I had better gear, but I am stacking up on it for raiding. I can get a max +hit rating of 215. Which is 12.5% or so+ my talents. Anyway, is this to much? I don't actualy stack that much. Anywhere from 175 to 200 is what I put on.

I know this is prolly wrong spot to ask, but your Enhancement Shaman thread is being shut down? I looked for a better spot to post this and could not find it, so sorry.

Exewut · 05/25/08, 6:02 AM

Originally Posted by McHompHomp

I would also like to know...Why no +hit gems?

+hit isn't bad, it's just that other options (+crit, AP, strenght) will give you a higher dps increase for the same itemlevel spent.

Waagaa · 05/25/08, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by McHompHomp

I have looked high and low for a definitive number of +hit and can not find it. I am somewhat new to Shamans, so bare with me. I would also like to know...Why no +hit gems? I suppose I wouldn't need em if I had better gear, but I am stacking up on it for raiding. I can get a max +hit rating of 215. Which is 12.5% or so+ my talents. Anyway, is this to much? I don't actualy stack that much. Anywhere from 175 to 200 is what I put on.

I know this is prolly wrong spot to ask, but your Enhancement Shaman thread is being shut down? I looked for a better spot to post this and could not find it, so sorry.

Shaman: Enhancement

Pretty much covers everything you need to know.

Waagaa · 05/25/08, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by lugbruz

The AEP ratings for trinkets indicate clearly which trinkets are most powerful; however, much of my output comes from damage done when bloodlust/orc racial/drums/haste pots are used simultaneously. In this context, does an on-use trinket such as the Bloodlust Brooch (T6 AEP 118.33 with a 278/20sec buff) outperform something like the Tsunami Talisman (random chance to proc 340 AP for 10 seconds) that cannot be timed?

I'm unable to find any data about this.

If someone could point me in the right direction...

I don't dare say that activated trinkets will always outperform proc-based ones.

What I can say is that when timed with haste / racial damage bonus abilities, on-use trinkets will have a higher value than proc-based effects. On trinkets with AEP values that are really close (within 10-15% of each other), I think you can safely say that the activated one will pull ahead. You still need to activate the trinket whenever it's CD is up and manage to time all other things to start at the same time. This can be a challenge in itself!

Artoxia · 05/26/08, 4:30 AM

Although i'm still stuck in the Black Temple, i am glad to see the development of the new T6 enhancement items. Maybe we can fall back to heavy armor after wratch of the lich king :-)

----

Yesterday i got the [Choker of Endless Nightmares] because no one else rolled for it. At the moment, i'am wearing the [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might]. I am not good at calculating EP weights for "proc-based" items like the Pendant of Might. I tryed to find some information about trinkets for enhancement shamans, but couldn't find any. My crit and hit ratings are quite low at the moment and i am not sure, if i should prefer the Choker of Endless Nightmares.

Another question for me is:

Band of the Ethernal Champion vs. Band of the Ranger-General. Any ideas?

Sashiel · 05/26/08, 9:42 PM

Run the sim with and without the procs and then figure out how much AP you need to make up the difference (trial and error style.)

Lethnon · 05/31/08, 3:32 AM

Regarding the sim...

Yo's hasn't been updated to allow for dual wielding dragonstrike. I am wanting to run those numbers to see how my gear compares with the proc. Does anyone know when Yo's is going to be updated, or if there is an equally good alternative?