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Old 04/26/08, 1:08 AM   #1
Binkenstein
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
[Shaman] Elemental Item Comparisons

This is no longer being maintained

I haven't been updating ShamStats much lately, and going by the number of downloads it's still popular.

Over the last few months I've stopped working on it as a Elemental/Resto spreadsheet, and have just focused on the Elemental side of things. This means I could put aside the switching options, and do a bit more customisation.

Thusly, the Elemental Item Comparisons sheet evolved.

So now, I've got three "values". EP, DP, and SP.
These are Equivalence, Damage, and Sustainability points.

Damage points look at the direct damage done over the fight time frame (which you can specify). This is done by calculating the overall damage, then comparing it with the damage done without a particular stat.
Sustainability looks at the same thing, but via regen mechanics (elemental focus, mp5).
Equivalence points are the the two of them added together. Now before you get worried, you can sort by either EP or DS values.

One of the cool things that I've (finally) added in is the ability to specify individual gems for each item you have equipped (and it'll even make sure you have the right gems selected before adding on the socket bonus).

At the moment I am fairly certain I've ironed out the bugs, so if you find anything, post it here.
Also, I know I'm short of some items from 2.4 (the SSO necks in particular) so links to those from WoWHead would be useful as well (as much information on proc cooldowns would be useful)

Lasty, props to Moshne for helping out with formulae & fixing stuff

Link is dead
Posts containing stuff what needs to be updated/included:
http://elitistjerks.com/729737-post30.html - Dark & demonic runes


Added in:
  • Armory import.
  • Destruction Potion (and Mad Alchemists)
  • Shadow Priest DPS -> MP5
  • SSO Necks
  • Heroic gems
  • TTOOM calc
  • Stormstrike (beta)
  • More enchants
  • Hit adjustment between 15-16%

Last edited by Binkenstein : 08/10/08 at 6:01 PM.


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Old 04/26/08, 2:43 AM   #2
Mirranda
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Tichondrius
In answer to the ICD of the neck from SSO (for Aldor Rep) it appears to be ~45s CD AFTER the proc ends. So a 55s ICD from time of proc.

Pretend I typed something witty.

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Old 04/26/08, 8:00 AM   #3
ruizAw
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Свежеватель душ (EU)
still have problem with hit (see pic)


and DEP


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Old 04/26/08, 9:51 AM   #4
gardenborn
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackrock (EU)
given that draenei sham is treated with +1% hit here: can anyone precisely confirm this actually counts for himself aswell? given that the buff still shows up only for grp members, but not for the sham himself?

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Old 04/26/08, 10:40 AM   #5
Undue
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Hyjal
The tooltip reads as follows:

Increases chance to hit with spells by 1% for you and all party members within 30 yards.

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Old 04/26/08, 11:24 AM   #6
Binkenstein
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Originally Posted by ruizAw View Post
still have problem with hit (see pic) and DEP
Ah, I see where that went wrong. Fixed cell A73 on DEP to read =A72*IF($B$21>0.16,0.99-D21+(B21-0.16),0.99-B21)
Can you past that in to see if it fixes it?


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Old 04/26/08, 11:30 AM   #7
Moshne
Bald Bull
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by gardenborn View Post
given that draenei sham is treated with +1% hit here: can anyone precisely confirm this actually counts for himself aswell? given that the buff still shows up only for grp members, but not for the sham himself?
Yes, this has been proven time and again. It has also been established that despite the fact you get the aura with two draenei in the group, you don't get a 2nd 1%.

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Old 04/26/08, 11:46 AM   #8
gardenborn
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackrock (EU)
thanks, I know what the tooltip reads, but, and apparently thats still in someway correct, the mechanic does not work as easily as you could suspect. I was told several times that the aura would work, but there wouldn't be an effect for the aura causing sham. but thats obviously wrong then. thanks for the info -_-

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Old 04/26/08, 2:15 PM   #9
ruizAw
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Свежеватель душ (EU)
Originally Posted by Binkenstein View Post
Ah, I see where that went wrong. Fixed cell A73 on DEP to read =A72*IF($B$21>0.16,0.99-D21+(B21-0.16),0.99-B21)
Can you past that in to see if it fixes it?
yes, its fix. But weigh 1 hitr still not equal (Hit=50=3,96% -> 1 hit=2,202; Hit=27=2,14% -> 1,698) - im not swap items, just add hitr in cell P15

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Old 04/26/08, 5:35 PM   #10
SneakerXZ
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Burning Blade (EU)
Hey, nice tool!

I tried it and I found bug. I wrote fix for it. Spell Crit Rating is calculated wrong. You ignore values from elixirs, flasks, oils and food, though you forgot add [Skullfish Soup].

I wrote fix for it. Put this to K7

=O15+VLOOKUP(B4;flasktable;9;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B5;belixirtable;9;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B6;gelixirtable;9;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B7;oiltable;9;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B8;foodtable;9;FALSE)
and fix for hit:

Put this to K8

=P15+VLOOKUP(B4;flasktable;10;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B5;belixirtable;10;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B6;gelixirtable;10;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B7;oiltable;10;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B8;foodtable;10;FALSE)
You should this add for other stats like stamina, spirit etc.

Don't forget remove it this calculation from total crit.

Last edited by SneakerXZ : 04/26/08 at 5:50 PM.

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Old 04/26/08, 6:28 PM   #11
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Originally Posted by ruizAw View Post
yes, its fix. But weigh 1 hitr still not equal (Hit=50=3,96% -> 1 hit=2,202; Hit=27=2,14% -> 1,698) - im not swap items, just add hitr in cell P15
Ops, try =A72*IF($B$21>0.16,0.99-D21+(B21-0.16),C21-D21)

Originally Posted by SneakerXZ View Post
Hey, nice tool!

I tried it and I found bug. I wrote fix for it. Spell Crit Rating is calculated wrong. You ignore values from elixirs, flasks, oils and food, though you forgot add [Skullfish Soup].

I wrote fix for it. Put this to K7

=O15+VLOOKUP(B4;flasktable;9;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B5;belixirtable;9;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B6;gelixirtable;9;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B7;oiltable;9;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B8;foodtable;9;FALSE)
and fix for hit:

Put this to K8

=P15+VLOOKUP(B4;flasktable;10;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B5;belixirtable;10;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B6;gelixirtable;10;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B7;oiltable;10;FALSE)+VLOOKUP(B8;foodtable;10;FALSE)
You should this add for other stats like stamina, spirit etc.

Don't forget remove it this calculation from total crit.
You didn't check M7 & M8 did you? But you're right about the Skullfish Soup bit.
Hmm. Now that you mention it I'm just chaining a couple of cell references there, so I could tidy that up and make M3-9 refer to the row 15 stats rather than doing it via K3-9


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Old 04/27/08, 2:34 AM   #12
Totec
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Uldum
also wanted to point out, if you look at the socket bonus calculator in ruizAw's picture, it doesn't appear to be working correctly either.

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Old 04/27/08, 4:04 AM   #13
SneakerXZ
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Burning Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by Binkenstein View Post
Ops, try =A72*IF($B$21>0.16,0.99-D21+(B21-0.16),C21-D21)


You didn't check M7 & M8 did you? But you're right about the Skullfish Soup bit.
Hmm. Now that you mention it I'm just chaining a couple of cell references there, so I could tidy that up and make M3-9 refer to the row 15 stats rather than doing it via K3-9
I did, It's reason why I wrote "don't forget remove it from total crit".

Sorry for my english

Foods, Elixirs, Flasks, Oils add Rating then It should be in column with rating not in column where is crit in percents.

BTW: Could you add support for [Destruction Potion]?

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Old 04/27/08, 4:18 AM   #14
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
The rating column was just showing what you had from gear. I've since cleaned that part up to show the overall stat effects (and keeping the % values as I need them, but hiding them)

As for Destruction Potion, I'm not too sure on how I should handle it.

I guess I can add in a 120*15/120 for damage, and 44.2*15/120 for crit based on that (and then to a use check for valuing alchemy stones too)


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Old 04/27/08, 4:22 AM   #15
SneakerXZ
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Burning Blade (EU)
I doubt that [Alchemist's Stone] affects this potion.

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Old 04/27/08, 4:46 AM   #16
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
For when I add it in I mean. At the moment I'm just assuming that mana pots are the default, thus the static 40mp5 value


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Old 04/27/08, 12:46 PM   #17
Ratticus
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Thrall
Trinkets look to be bugged.

Right I have Essence of the Martyr with a better DP then The Skull of Gul'dan.

Looks to me like the healing column (column U) is being used when the dmg column (column V) should be.

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Old 04/27/08, 12:49 PM   #18
Moshne
Bald Bull
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Whisperwind
I suspect that one is my fault from when we updated the references away from the HEP/DEP values. Trinkets slipped through the cracks as they didn't need to be updated for the gem or enchant references.

EDIT: Or perhaps not, I am not able to replicate the problem, what do you have set as your sort value, EP or DP. The Skulls EP value is going to vary depending on if you are mana sustainable or not, do you have SPriest, JoW, and other such buffs turned off? Also, which list is it showing as an upgrade in, the main page, or the upgrade?

EDIT 2:

I found it, or I suspect I have, its referencing the heal column for hit, are you not hit capped in this instance of the sheet?
@Bink, in the trinketlist page, the DP calculation is referencing column U for hit instead of X, giving some wild values on non-hit capped setups for healing trinkets.

Last edited by Moshne : 04/27/08 at 12:59 PM.

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Old 04/27/08, 1:07 PM   #19
Moshne
Bald Bull
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Whisperwind
Also, the hit cap value is a bit uncontrolled, I never really tested it being a draenei and having a hard time not being hit capped. As it stands, if you are not hit capped by even a fraction of a percentage, it gives full value to hit on all items that you are looking at (which was the problem with the Martyr, as it was showing 134 hit rating at full value.) I'm not sure if its worth putting in a check for or not, but you could add a conditional check DEP page hit calculation. I'm trying to draft up something workable for it now.

EDIT: Hmmm...it looks like you would have to put a top end DP value check on every item sheet to put a ((16*hitr)-(hit*hitr))*dhit) maximum limit on the IF(slotequip=A2,U2*hite,U2*dhit) calculation to prevent hit from going wild when close to the cap.

Last edited by Moshne : 04/27/08 at 1:13 PM.

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Old 04/27/08, 2:46 PM   #20
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Originally Posted by Ratticus View Post
Trinkets look to be bugged.

Right I have Essence of the Martyr with a better DP then The Skull of Gul'dan.

Looks to me like the healing column (column U) is being used when the dmg column (column V) should be.
Originally Posted by Moshne View Post
I suspect that one is my fault from when we updated the references away from the HEP/DEP values. Trinkets slipped through the cracks as they didn't need to be updated for the gem or enchant references.

EDIT: Or perhaps not, I am not able to replicate the problem, what do you have set as your sort value, EP or DP. The Skulls EP value is going to vary depending on if you are mana sustainable or not, do you have SPriest, JoW, and other such buffs turned off? Also, which list is it showing as an upgrade in, the main page, or the upgrade?

EDIT 2:

I found it, or I suspect I have, its referencing the heal column for hit, are you not hit capped in this instance of the sheet?
@Bink, in the trinketlist page, the DP calculation is referencing column U for hit instead of X, giving some wild values on non-hit capped setups for healing trinkets.
Fixed.
Originally Posted by Moshne View Post
Also, the hit cap value is a bit uncontrolled, I never really tested it being a draenei and having a hard time not being hit capped. As it stands, if you are not hit capped by even a fraction of a percentage, it gives full value to hit on all items that you are looking at (which was the problem with the Martyr, as it was showing 134 hit rating at full value.) I'm not sure if its worth putting in a check for or not, but you could add a conditional check DEP page hit calculation. I'm trying to draft up something workable for it now.

EDIT: Hmmm...it looks like you would have to put a top end DP value check on every item sheet to put a ((16*hitr)-(hit*hitr))*dhit) maximum limit on the IF(slotequip=A2,U2*hite,U2*dhit) calculation to prevent hit from going wild when close to the cap.
Noted. I think I know what to do to fix this bit now.

For reference, something someone emailed me (please don't, just post it here)
Not sure why this hasn't been caught yet, but the calculation for mana is pretty off. You are using the full value of intellect*15 instead of (intellect - base_intellect)*15. We know each race has a different base mana, and some funky 1 mana per first 20 points of intellect takes place. So mana = base_mana + (int - base_int)*15.

Cell Main!R9 =VLOOKUP(Main!B16,racestat,5,FALSE)+(int-VLOOKUP(Main!B16,racestat,3,FALSE))*15
Cell DEP!G27 =VLOOKUP(Main!B16,racestat,5,FALSE)+(B17-VLOOKUP(Main!B16,racestat,3,FALSE))*15

Additionally, the value of base_mana for Taurens is incorrect.

Cell Lists!E73 = 4223 (not 4350).


A request. Would you return a total DPS time before OOM back to the Main worksheet page? Currently I have to ensure my fight duration is large enough, then check the hidden DEP worksheet for the DPS time calculation. Or I have to manually iterate the fight duration cell to see where DPS drops off. Knowing what gear gets me what DPS time is critical information.


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Old 04/27/08, 5:55 PM   #21
Ratticus
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Thrall
I am 1 pt short of being hit capped. So if the +heal column is being treated being referenced for hit rating that would explain the odd values I am seeing. I was looking directly at the trinket page and the DP column.

An item I would suggest adding from patch 2.4 Cloak of the Betrayed
[Cloak of the Betrayed]
When gemmed its about equal to the Ruby Drape of the Mysticant which is damn impressive for a non-heroic blue. The type of item shaman just starting out should know exists.

Thanks for all the hard work.

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Old 04/28/08, 12:43 PM   #22
Buanna
Piston Honda
 
Troll Shaman
 
Hellscream
Crit in L7 is not looking at buffed Int, consequently, nothing is. Arcane Intellect and Blessing of Kings are not shown to be DPS increases.

L7 is =(2.2+(K7/critr)+(K3/80))/100.

It probably should be =(2.2+(K7/critr)+(=M3/80))/100


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Old 04/28/08, 1:58 PM   #23
ruizAw
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Свежеватель душ (EU)
Can you post fresh version?

And tell me - before cap - hit > dmg (crit) or < dmg (crit)?

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Old 04/28/08, 5:27 PM   #24
Praxagora
Banned
 
Blood Elf Druid
 
Zul'Jin
Bink, I posted my question under the elemental thread; basically my +dmg numbers are off on your spreadsheet to what they are in-game (1107 w/ totem), and also on the spreadsheet itself. When I add up all the +dmg from my items on the spreadsheet I come to a total of 1,153, not 1198. Why is this? The Skyshatter shoulders and gauntlets are off by a few +dmg. In-game my shoulders (w/ gems + enchant) add up to a total of 82, not 86, and the gauntlets add up to 78, not 80. Is there a reason they are adding up to those numbers and not the numbers I get in-game? I was also wondering why you added +38 damage to the Sextant. Thanks!





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Old 04/28/08, 5:28 PM   #25
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Originally Posted by Ratticus View Post
I am 1 pt short of being hit capped. So if the +heal column is being treated being referenced for hit rating that would explain the odd values I am seeing. I was looking directly at the trinket page and the DP column.

An item I would suggest adding from patch 2.4 Cloak of the Betrayed
[Cloak of the Betrayed]
When gemmed its about equal to the Ruby Drape of the Mysticant which is damn impressive for a non-heroic blue. The type of item shaman just starting out should know exists.

Thanks for all the hard work.
Added
Originally Posted by Buanna View Post
Crit in L7 is not looking at buffed Int, consequently, nothing is. Arcane Intellect and Blessing of Kings are not shown to be DPS increases.

L7 is =(2.2+(K7/critr)+(K3/80))/100.

It probably should be =(2.2+(K7/critr)+(=M3/80))/100
Fixed
Originally Posted by ruizAw View Post
Can you post fresh version?

And tell me - before cap - hit > dmg (crit) or < dmg (crit)?
Maybe at the end of the week.

Prax: I can't tell anything from the screenshot you have up. I can go double check the item stats, but I think your problem revolves around the gems/enchants selected. Also, for proc or use effects, I've turned those into average values so we can compare them better.

Last edited by Binkenstein : 04/28/08 at 5:39 PM.


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