[Shaman] Elemental Item Comparisons - Page 3

◊ Binkenstein · 05/01/08, 8:33 PM

Bunna, everything looks ok on my one, but I know I've made some corrections (Upgrades was looking at the heal column, for instance)

Handy, the reason I went for a constant value was because I was getting circular reference errors with haste procs on trinkets. However, you should probably notice that Quag's haste value gets around this by referencing a different haste value that excludes that trinket slot (although at the moment it's doing a straight vlookup off a table, rather than a forumula). I plan on fixing that up, as well as adding it in for Skycall & Skull.

Moshne · 05/02/08, 3:04 AM

Originally Posted by Mirranda

This is my personal request, being as I rerolled from a hunter, I used Cheeky's spreadsheet quite a bit before I switched over and started using yours.

The one thing that was an amazing thing to have was an Armory import of your items/gems so you didn't have to spend 10 minutes updating the spreadsheet every time you open it (after d/ling the update/getting new gear, etc).

Not sure what's involved in that, and obviously no immediate rush, but it would be a really nice feature.

When I was helping Bink with the shaman sheet I tried figuring out a way to do it, and its just quite a bit more complicated than I initially thought. Now that finals are over, I may give it another shot.

Mirranda · 05/02/08, 4:12 AM

Originally Posted by Moshne

When I was helping Bink with the shaman sheet I tried figuring out a way to do it, and its just quite a bit more complicated than I initially thought. Now that finals are over, I may give it another shot.

I sent a PM to Cheeky asking what was involved in doing it, or whether he had time to throw in some insight for us. I don't expect that he does, but it doesn't usually hurt to ask.

Daler · 05/02/08, 12:40 PM

Edit: Note to self--Drink coffee, THEN post. Please delete.

fasian · 05/02/08, 1:01 PM

Morning,

Using the newest version of your SS i've noticed one thing that seems odd. The EP and DP numbers are exactly the same, while the SP is currently all zero's. I know this is a work in progress, but in prior sheets the 3 values were dramaticly different.

I am enjoying the new format as well as the addition of the new features, Just having some /headtilt moments.

◊ Binkenstein · 05/02/08, 6:38 PM

If you have sufficient mana/regen to last you the fight duration, the SP values become zero. The default duration is 6 minutes (Brut!) but if you extend it out to 10 minutes you should start to see a change.

Mox · 05/05/08, 1:32 PM

Is there an updated version of SEIC up yet, or eta?

◊ Binkenstein · 05/06/08, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Mox

Is there an updated version of SEIC up yet, or eta?

Moshne currently has the latest version while he wrangles with that Armory import thing. Talents, gear, gems all work, but enchants are causing a few problems.
Once that's done, I'd like to get the modelling for Skycall/Skull in as well as what I've put in for Quags, get the S4 gear added in as well as new Sunwell stuff, finish off the instances (HFC & MgT) and factions (SSO), and I think I'll be ready for another release.

If I get some help with items that I'm missing, outside of those mentioned above, then I'd give it another two weeks or so, depending on raiding/work/RL.

Mirranda · 05/06/08, 3:15 AM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

Moshne currently has the latest version while he wrangles with that Armory import thing. Talents, gear, gems all work, but enchants are causing a few problems.
Once that's done, I'd like to get the modelling for Skycall/Skull in as well as what I've put in for Quags, get the S4 gear added in as well as new Sunwell stuff, finish off the instances (HFC & MgT) and factions (SSO), and I think I'll be ready for another release.

If I get some help with items that I'm missing, outside of those mentioned above, then I'd give it another two weeks or so, depending on raiding/work/RL.

Thanks very much for your guys' hard work by the way.

Mox · 05/07/08, 7:13 AM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

Moshne currently has the latest version while he wrangles with that Armory import thing. Talents, gear, gems all work, but enchants are causing a few problems.
Once that's done, I'd like to get the modelling for Skycall/Skull in as well as what I've put in for Quags, get the S4 gear added in as well as new Sunwell stuff, finish off the instances (HFC & MgT) and factions (SSO), and I think I'll be ready for another release.

If I get some help with items that I'm missing, outside of those mentioned above, then I'd give it another two weeks or so, depending on raiding/work/RL.

What format do you need the items in, I've usually got tons of free time at work and can go through the S4/Sunwell items.

◊ Binkenstein · 05/07/08, 4:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mox

What format do you need the items in, I've usually got tons of free time at work and can go through the S4/Sunwell items.

name,zone/type,boss/zone,faction,set,gems,class,armor,stam,int,spirit,heal,damage,crit,hit,mp5,res,haste, socket bonus,bonus type

If you can get me that information I can copy/paste it in & down fill the calculation cells.

Melthar · 05/07/08, 9:19 PM

Getting a couple of wierd occurences with the spreadsheet. Firstly on the trinkets tab:
Name---------------------------EP---------DP
Hex Shrunken Head-----------52---------52
The Skull of Gul'dan-----------52---------52
Icon of the Silver Crescent----51---------51
Darkmoon Card: Crusade-----47---------47

Notably Icon showing up as higher EP and DP than the Darkmoon Card: Crusade, This only happens when I already have Icon equipped as one of my trinkets. It appears to be giving an unnaturally high value to whatever trinket you already have equipped. If I replace my Icon with a Hex's Head on the main sheet it shoots the value of Hex's head up to 66 vs 47 for the card, and 41 for Icon. Equipping a Shard of the Scale in the same slot gives 52, 47, 41 for comparison.

Also as far as I can tell, CSD is not being calculated correctly on the DPS main sheet. Replacing my CSD with "Blood of Amber" (12 crit gem) in a piece of gear results in the exact same DPS. Trying on a different helm without CSD (Hood of Hexing) resulted in more DPS once gemmed appropriately. I'm guessing the DPS calculations include the CSD crit damage multiplier by default (or don't include it at all) which makes it difficult to compare vs non meta helms.

◊ Binkenstein · 05/07/08, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Melthar

Getting a couple of wierd occurences with the spreadsheet. Firstly on the trinkets tab:
Name---------------------------EP---------DP
Hex Shrunken Head-----------52---------52
The Skull of Gul'dan-----------52---------52
Icon of the Silver Crescent----51---------51
Darkmoon Card: Crusade-----47---------47

Notably Icon showing up as higher EP and DP than the Darkmoon Card: Crusade, This only happens when I already have Icon equipped as one of my trinkets. It appears to be giving an unnaturally high value to whatever trinket you already have equipped. If I replace my Icon with a Hex's Head on the main sheet it shoots the value of Hex's head up to 66 vs 47 for the card, and 41 for Icon. Equipping a Shard of the Scale in the same slot gives 52, 47, 41 for comparison.

Also as far as I can tell, CSD is not being calculated correctly on the DPS main sheet. Replacing my CSD with "Blood of Amber" (12 crit gem) in a piece of gear results in the exact same DPS. Trying on a different helm without CSD (Hood of Hexing) resulted in more DPS once gemmed appropriately. I'm guessing the DPS calculations include the CSD crit damage multiplier by default (or don't include it at all) which makes it difficult to compare vs non meta helms.

CSD is broken because it's looking for the ideal gem, rather than Gem 1 on the helm (should be Main!D36).

As for the item value change, easiest way to figure it out is to zip your copy up, and send it to me so I can see how it's behaving.

Lucitron · 05/08/08, 2:05 AM

Hmm... don't know if I downloaded an old version or if I actually found a minor bug. To the point, Orcs have apparently got a new racial of +18 spelldamage.

Great work never the less.

STEALTH EDIT:

Yup, thats the on-use orc racial.

Aah, my bad there. Goes to show that I've only rolled Tauren and Draenei Shamans.

◊ Binkenstein · 05/08/08, 3:35 AM

Yup, thats the on-use orc racial.

Kerfkong · 05/08/08, 6:14 AM

Was just wondering if you could throw the JC unique gems up to. Obviously the crit one is horrid now, but I was wondering where the 14 damage one sits for a red socket. Is it even worth keeping, or did I make all those gems for nothing?

◊ Binkenstein · 05/08/08, 6:32 AM

I tend to use both, mostly because they're both easy to make, and worth a bit more than the proper epic gems, and I want to keep my crit up. So the crit one is optional, dmg one is very useful.

Kerfkong · 05/08/08, 5:49 PM

K. Also, is there a point where haste isnt the best stat? For example if we get 300 or so haste, is it better to stack damage again? I was looking at it, and I will be hitting like 480 haste in perfect gear. Is there a point where damage becomes a better stat again? I would make graphs to check, but I dont have the time atm to do that stuff.

*Edit*

Thought about it at work. I guess the only way haste would be worst then damage is if ur going oom. Guess I'll just stack haste then. LB spam ftw...(i feel like a destro lock)

Kursed · 05/11/08, 12:25 AM

I tried useing the item comparison thing, but i found it rather confusing(does not know how to use it). i was wondering if you guys could tweak my gems and possibly my gear in case i have bad items. all i have been doing really is stacks spell crit and damage for more mana efficiency in longer fights.

Buanna · 05/11/08, 6:29 AM

It'd be better if we taught you how to use it. What specifically are the problems you're having with it?

Kursed · 05/12/08, 12:07 PM

everything that is in a box i do not understand what it is for or how it works, also dont understand some abervation's.. i somewhat understand the socket bonus chart but i do not understand what the red negative's mean at the bottom of it.

◊ Binkenstein · 05/12/08, 6:12 PM

Red = sockets, green = Ideal. It's for comparing socket bonuses & the gems required to get them with the gems you'd like to use.

EP = Equiv Points
DP = Damage Points
SP = Sustainability Points.

B = Bonus
T = bonus stat Type

I guess I need to make more comments & clear up lables.

Totec · 05/12/08, 11:58 PM

I mentioned in thread 1, but thought I'd repeat (don't know if it was missed), the Bonus socket calculator doesn't appear to be working correctly...or at least, as it did in Shamstats. The "Ideal" line appears to be stuck at "0.00" for both DP and DS, no matter the gem combination. Actually looking at it closer, this appears to be the case for "socket" as well, and it appears only the "bonus" is calculated.