Jynxa

I'm surprised you all get such results, to be honest, and I'm guessing the fight parameters matter a lot for the results.
If I put the parameters and buffs to something that sounds about right for the 'average' bossfight (which doesn't exist, but I'm not really in a position to regem for every fight...) the values I get are:

11.7 SD = 9,05
10 int = 8,88
10 haste = 7,78
10 crit = 6,65
10 spi = 5,07
4 mp5 = 1,98

Only when I get an Innervate +10 spirit catches up somewhat, but still stays below haste, SD and int.

May I ask which parameters you guys used?
For me it is:
Boss level (of course..)
Latency: 0,05 sec
Duration: 300 sec
DPS time: 0,96
Fragmentation: 0,5
Interrupt frequency: 0,02
spriest mp5: 175 (wild guess here, depends entirely on which spriest ends up grouped in my group)
0 innervates and mana tides.

I trust rawr in this, and so I socketed my gear with +12 SD in red sockets, 6 SD/5 haste in yellow (except for one, in which I put +10 int) and 6 SD/7 stam in blue (they might be inferior for DPS, but I like having 10k hp in my standard bossgear, which I just reach with those). Exceptions are my T5 chest and Leggings of the Channeled Elements which I filled up with +12 SD gems.
The one +10 int gem is because I'm right at the break even point for Reckless Pyrestone - Brilliant Lionseye; and given a choice I prefer having the extra int.

Also to Light4; as a Gnome you have an extra int buff, so int for you will be worth more than for arcane mages of other races. (in my case an extra 5% int would kick int above SD too)

 

xiaoxin21

You can try Mono (software) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or a windows emulator to try to install .net, but no gurantee it will work.

 

Light4

That's why I went Arcane in the first place.

As for socket bonuses, the heroic gems definitely are nice to have, too bad I have no luck with the drops...

As for Meta: IED comes out 4dps before CSD for me...

Options I used:
Latency 0,05 (this might be a bit optimistic though as the Bar usually shows around 300ms, but the spell-queue is probably a lot less)
Fight duration: 300 (the longer this gets, the lower is the value of INT compared to +DMG)
TPS limit 0
dps time 0.95 - 1 (difference is about 1%)
fragmentation 0
Interrupt frequ. 0
shadow priest mp5: 175
0 innervates (though I tend to get one usually when we have enough druids around, but then again, up to now I never ended up having an Spriest AND enough druids around :/)

 

Kavan

IED in 14.1 version is overvalued, it does not take into account internal cooldown. See How to Heal like a Pro for testing data.

 

dabomb138

Hello fellow arc/frost mages,

For TC purposes, what are your final gear compositions going to be? ie what is your 4th piece of T6 going to be? What 2 pieces of T5? Wand, trinkets, etc?

My guild will be downing council and Illidan soon, and I don't want to waste dkp on things I dont need, so I'm trying to figure out what gear I will be needing in the long run

I understand the value of spirit and crit and the drawbacks on haste, so I was thinking of avoiding haste like the plague except for the T6 boots/belt/bracers.
For example, using Cowl of Arcane Purity, which has spirit and crit and no haste at all.

Going for as little haste as possible I put together the following list:
Helm: [Helm of Arcane Purity]
Neck: [Sin'dorei Pendant of Conquest] with blue gem for meta req
Shoulders: [Shoulderpads of Knowledge's Pursuit]
Back: [Cloak of the Illidari Council]
Chest: [Robes of Tirisfal] first piece of T5
Bracers: [Bracers of the Tempest]
Gloves: [Gloves of Tirisfal]second piece of T5
Belt: [Belt of the Tempest]
Pants: [Leggings of the Tempest] with blue gem for meta req
Boots: [Boots of the Tempest]
Ring 1: [Band of the Eternal Sage]
Ring 2: [Sin'dorei Band of Dominance]
Trinket 1: [The Skull of Gul'dan]
Trinket 2: [Serpent-Coil Braid]
Weapon: [Grand Magister's Staff of Torrents]
Wand: [Wand of Cleansing Light]

This leaves you at the hit cap, meets the meta req, and you only have 88 haste

Anyone have any different opinions?

 

Zinaida

Haste may not be quite as powerful for arcane as it is for fire, but it is still a dps increase and shouldn't be ignored.
This is the gear I came up with:

Helm: [Cowl of the Tempest] (CSD, Fluorescent Tanzanite)
Neck: [Amulet of Unfettered Magics] / [Pendant of Sunfire] for JC (Brilliant Lionseye)
Shoulders: [Mantle of Tirisfal] (Brilliant Lionseye, Fluorescent Tanzanite)
Back: [Tattered Cape of Antonidas] (Runed Crimson Spinel)
Chest: [Robes of Ghostly Hatred] (Runed Crimson Spinel*2, Brilliant Lionseye)
Bracers: [Bracers of the Tempest] (Runed Crimson Spinel)
Gloves: [Gloves of Tirisfal]
Belt: [Belt of the Tempest] (Brilliant Lionseye)
Pants: [Leggings of Calamity] (Runed Crimson Spinel*2, Brilliant Lionseye)
Boots: [Boots of the Tempest] (Brilliant Lionseye)
Ring 1: [Loop of Forged Power]
Ring 2: [Ring of Omnipotence]
Trinket 1: [The Skull of Gul'dan]
Trinket 2: [Shifting Naaru Sliver]
Weapon: [Sunflare]
Offhand: [Heart of the Pit]
Wand: [Wand of the Demonsoul] (Brilliant Lionseye)

 

xiaoxin21

For neck RAWR values [Brooch of Nature's Mercy] more than [Amulet of Unfettered Magics]. As for hit cap wise, you only need 6% for your main spell AB if you respec for more hit once you get more gear. T6 belt/boots, ring of forged power/omnipotence and SCB will give you all the hit you would need

 

exc20002001

Im not understanding the sudden likeness towards haste? Unless we are spamming ab completly and still have left over mana (and most dont), How does haste help if we are planning to reduce our mana to complete 0 on the first place.

Only situations i can see this truly helpful are, when we want to make sure we do not lose our ab stack buff after 3 Frostbolts, and when there are phases in a fight where mana is allowed to regen without you burning mana meaning you will want to burn your next lot of mana asap considering you will abundant with it.

This situation may arise as well, where the fight is extremely short and becuase of your group make up (say a resto shaman with a very good shadow priest), you actually dont get to burn all your mana so to aid yourself you use haste. Or maybe you are lucky enough to obtain 2 odd innervates.

Unless these situations are normal i couldnt see the true use in haste, mainly in the context of replacing another item stat, say for example crit, whereby you would at the end of fight end with 0 mana anyway, so reaching there faster proves nothing, or you could have had more crit, you still end up with 0 mana but logically would have a higher crit %.

Theres a good chance i missed something (thus the fuss), does anyone care to explain

Every fight is a food fight when you're a cannibal.

~~Demitri Martin

 

xiaoxin21

Not really reaching them earlier means you will have done the same amount of damage in a shorter time, if you did 100 AB in X sec, with haste it takes X-y sec. and the y sec could be used to do anything else that increases damage like casting FB-FB-FB-AB.

if you saved that amount of time you will have increase your damage by the 3FB and 1AB you saved up.

 

Tizzlewump

Working pom into an AP+clearcast feels optimal. I don't because I'm lazy about pom. But if you use it to ramp the AB stack faster, my preference is AB, Pom+AB, AB, FB, nuke. If pom+AB is a macro you can spell queue it to abuse the 0-debuff stack, then the 2-debuff stack is established by the time your gcd is up and you can be fully ramped with no mana wasted using only one frostbolt.

I will concede that I have not tested that the pom-AB is using 0-ramp mana, but even if I'm wrong I'm still not losing dpm against a non-pom rampup.

Have I thanked my arcane theorycrafters lately? This thread (and others) have been a great help to me and opened up a lot of fun new gameplay for my toon.

Edit: grammar.

I used to get high on life until I found out that life is cut with idiots.

 

Zinaida

Hit still has some value after AB is hit capped, depending on how much frostbolt is cast. I think which is better depends on your raid setup - I assume no draenei aura, no ToW, CoE up, 6 minute fight which makes [Amulet of Unfettered Magics] better.

Haste is still a dps increase at the cost of a small increase in mana consumption. This simply means using a little more filler and haste remains a net increase in dps. While not an ideal stat, inferior to damage/int and certainly not something to gem for, it shouldn't be ignored or looked upon as harshly as many people do.

 

Shawn

One of our Mages went 40/0/21 the other day and it seems like he loves it while the rest of us specced back to Deep Fire. This is purely anecdotal but maybe some of you are interested in his results in Sunwell. He Re-gemmed most of his equipment and gears more toward Int/Spirit now (~16k+ Mana raidbuffed)...

His Armory:
The World of Warcraft Armory

Some WWS-logs (will be deleted soon I guess):
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Personally I really like the versatility of the spec. You'll top the meters at trash, can do awesome burst on Kalecgos and your powerful AEs will score your the first position on Felmyst. For "reverse"-Twins it's by far the best spec due to Cold Snap and Arcane Subtlety. We are currently learning M'uru so I can't really say much about that fight but his results look quite good when handling the Elf-Adds.

 

Sunde

Alright, this is my first time posting here, I have read these forums for a while now, and have learned a lot regarding raiding. I am a raid leader of my guild, but, this post has nothing to do with that, onto my question.

I see that there is a lot of talk about different ways of gemming my gear, many people seem to be into stacking Int gems.
I am interested in stacking int and trying it out, my guild is starting to work our way through BT, atm we are 4/5 MH, and 4/9 BT, so i don't currently have access to many gems, meaning I have to research before re-gemming for all Int, Spi, or Spell dmg. I figured this is the best place to find the information I am seeking. I do have the luxury of having an Spriest, and a resto shaman, or ele shaman in my group for every raid, at the moment, I am able to get close to 85% AB spam.

My armory
The World of Warcraft Armory
Also, I know I am WAY above hit cap for both Arcane, frost, and fire, and I am currently working on making those changes. Just have been unlucky with drops from Anetheron, and Naj'entus.

WWS of recent BT and Hyjal:
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

I have been using Magegraf to see how Int would compare to spell dmg, it generally shows spell damage being greater then intellect.

Magegraf with all spell dmg:
http://magegraf.com/index.php?hash=7...28c2d712c54197

Magegraf with all Int:
http://magegraf.com/index.php?hash=6...19e7ea1c392c95


I am here to find out from the people on these forums who are much more knowledgeable than I am, whether I would see a larger DPS increase from socketing for int due to being able to sustain a higher percentage of AB spam.

I have been doing everything i possibly can to keep the AB spam high, I have found lots of information here already and have seen convincing arguments/play using both int gems, and spell damage gems.

I am interested in stacking Int gems only, but don't want to use a bunch of int gems, only to find a DPS loss.

 

xiaoxin21

Sunde : Looking at your gems. You will get a dps increase if you change all the haste/spell,crit/spell, Haste/sta! gems to int gems for yellow sockets and 12 damage in red, also for your 2 blue use +10spi or the one that drops in heroic BF.

 

sornok

Since the discussion has gone to haste, I have got a question.

I have been checking rawr, and almost every single haste item is a dps increase. Since we all know that haste IS a mana loss ? Is there a way to define what stats we would need to make up for this mana loss ?

For example the belt of the tempest is the first belt that has spirit (unless I am missing something). Because of this, it must be the best arcane belt in the game, although it has haste.

p.s. There are many slots that do not have spirit, which proves that if the spec was better itemized, it could give even better results. Right now I can't find and items for the following :

Neck : the only neck with spirit gives fire dmg (doh)
Cloak
Weapon
Offhand
Wand
Ring1
Ring2

If I am missing something, I would like to be enlightened

 

Kavan

There is a healing neck with spirit from ZA that is very good for arcane.

To answer your main question. You don't have to compensate for higher mps with stats, you compensate for it with a shift in cycles. Take a look at some of the first posts in this thread regarding AB spam tradeoff and how to determine the actual influence of stats on overall damage.

 

xiaoxin21

There isn't really a need to use Spi gear on every slot. Most items comes with int which is much more important. But if you are interested, You can wear healing priest items for spi. Like wand of cleansing light, ring of harmonic beauty etc and get a high int /high spi weapon for evocate/innervate, something like [Ethereum Life-Staff].

 

HellaBooya

I have to agree with what Lunar said about your haste and crit gems, though I disagree with using Int gems, especially for where you are at in progression. My guild is pretty much in the same place as yours is, we are 5/5 MH and 4/9 BT and I can maintain AB for about 85 - 90 % of the fight without any Int gems socketed. I would recommend all +dmg gems.

As you stated you are WELL above the 126 hit cap that is needed for Arc/Frost mages. I would recommend replacing your items that have +hit. Your wand is the easiest to replace by just buying the badge wand, [Carved Witch Doctor's Stick] other than that most of the items would be drops from raids other than replacing you necklace with the Vindicators necklace. You should really try to grab [Anetheron's Noose] and [Slippers of the Seacaller] they would be two huge upgrades from the gear that you currently have. Also a minor upgrade to get if you cannot get the Slippers would be the boots off of Lurker, not only do they not have hit, they have spirit. If you replace your wand, belt, and boots with the items I listed it would drop you to 128 hit which is more than you need, but much better than 180. Not only would you gain dmg and crit you would add more int and spirit.

I also noticed that you run with 2 feral druids you should try to get one of their innervates it should greatly increase your dps. Lastly a great thing about Rage and Anetheron, try to have your MT tank the bosses far enough back that you can dps with the Jaina spirit buff. With this buff you can easily have 100% AB spam.

 

Alvira

Even at this stage, where we have BT and MH on farm, I only have 3 gem slots of +Int. I gem for damage in the other slots. And that is sufficient to keep AB up for most or all of the fights already. Perhaps this will change when we do sunwell and Brutullus comes up. But I would leave that for the more experienced arcane mages that are already deep into Sunwell.