Feral Powershifting: macros, thresholds, mana management - Page 5

Linea · 05/23/08, 9:07 AM

Originally Posted by raffy

It's hard to test because its not easy to reproduce, but as I mentioned a few posts ago, it would be interesting to test it with "/console autounshift 0". And as others have mentioned, testing it via an action on a bar that doesn't page.

I had the chance to test "/console autounshift 0" during a Brutallus kill yesterday. I unshifted at least twice in that time (I have Cat Form in my mainbar where Mangle and Shred are in Cat Form, so another "failed" powershift might have gone unnoticed, but I'm certain of at least two).
I usually have a pretty low FPS rate and to me it seems the lower my FPS the higher the chances that a powershift will fail (obviously speculating here).

Originally Posted by raffy

On a sidenote: I'm probably going to release another version of FeralKit this weekend along with a whole slew of fixes and updates. The newest feature, as mentioned previously, is a smart debuff manager (called DebuffGrid).

On that note, I had to remove IsUsableSpell(self.forms[3]) from the final check in function FeralKit:Powershift since it kept returning false while in Cat Form, preventing any powershifts from happening.

edit: Found out why IsUsableSpell didn't work: It returns false when attempting to cast a spell that you can't cast in your current form if autounshift is 0 - which makes sense, I suppose.

• droeber · 05/23/08, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Inaiwae

I am using this macro (i moved it to an addon, like raffy's) for a week and so far i had no problems apart from one, which is Kaz'rogal.

I noticed later when examining combat log that i exploded after powershift, and not only immediately after it but also 5 seconds later. See the log below. I dont see any powershift at the 2nd explosion, and i believe i was in cat form (i checked PoM healing and it was 1950 avg on others, so it is clearly affected by Nurturing Instinct).

Due to the Warstomps and other things that he does, I find that it's safer for me if I just don't powershift on Kaz'rogal. My DPS is fair at best, my Leader of the Pack aura is arguably more important than my actual DPS, so I just do the normal attack rotation without powershifting on him.

raffy · 05/23/08, 3:33 PM

Originally Posted by Linea

I had the chance to test "/console autounshift 0" during a Brutallus kill yesterday. I unshifted at least twice in that time (I have Cat Form in my mainbar where Mangle and Shred are in Cat Form, so another "failed" powershift might have gone unnoticed, but I'm certain of at least two).
I usually have a pretty low FPS rate and to me it seems the lower my FPS the higher the chances that a powershift will fail (obviously speculating here).

How does a failed powershift look when you have Cat form on your Caster bar? You just unshift and sit there? Are you in the GCD? I would of expected Cat form as the fall through spell, being a decent solution to the problem so maybe it's something else?

Xelopheris · 05/23/08, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by raffy

How does a failed powershift look when you have Cat form on your Caster bar? You just unshift and sit there? Are you in the GCD? I would of expected Cat form as the fall through spell, being a decent solution to the problem so maybe it's something else?

AFAIK, you would be on GCD. Your UI would send the '/cast Cat Form' from the button press, but that would end up canceling it, due to the way blizzard allows you to half-queue the same spell.

Linea · 05/23/08, 7:25 PM

Originally Posted by raffy

How does a failed powershift look when you have Cat form on your Caster bar? You just unshift and sit there? Are you in the GCD? I would of expected Cat form as the fall through spell, being a decent solution to the problem so maybe it's something else?

No GCD, but its obviously not as swift as a macroed powershift unless you spam your buttons like crazy. I stayed in caster form long enough to see my char. That is not the case if the macro performs a powershift properly.

Whether or not it is a descent solution is probably a matter of perspective. In terms of DPS I'd guess that the lost damage caused by such a failed powershift is probably about that of a default attack.

As suggested by Mojojuice, I tried using "/cast [noform] !Cat Form; Mangle (Cat)()" in the macro today. As of yet, no powershift failed but I realize that I'll have to test this a few more days before I'm willing to remove those Cat Form buttons from my Caster Form bar

Originally Posted by Mojojuice33

For those getting stuck in caster form, using

/cast !Cat Form

instead of

/cast Cat Form

has never kept me in caster form, even while spamming

Stonehenge · 05/24/08, 3:22 AM

Maybe its late and maybe I am just dumb, but I am confused about the macros. If I am understanding this mod correctly, I should be able to set macro to spam mangle, shred, and rip and it will do the move or powershift if I am under the energy threshold. What are the exact macros to use for mangle, shred, and rip?

Thanks.

Volrath · 05/24/08, 7:05 AM

is it possible to checkt first if iam in Clearcasting mode before i powershift, i think it would save some mana and optimize the PWS

Gedoran · 05/24/08, 10:08 AM

I just look at the French translation, and managed to get it working for me hence I share here.

First, copy the following text in a new file named frFR.lua in your FeralKit\localizations folder:

LibStub("AceLocale-2.2"):new("FeralKit"):RegisterTranslations("frFR", function() return {
	["Mangle"] = "Mutilation",
	["Faerie Fire"] = "Lucioles"
} end)

Then, add this little line to the FeralKit.toc file in the FeralKit\ folder, under the other 2 localizations (enUS and deDE):

localizations\frFR.lua

That's all, you should now have the Statistics Report displayed after a combat, as well as the cat UI.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1292/gedowpx7.jpg

----

However I'm getting a LUA error 'Attempt to index a nil value",line 404.
It's in the FeralKit:ScanSpells() function.

self.nCatManaCost = tonumber(LibGratuity:GetLine(2):match("%d+"))

If I don't comment this line the FeralKit doesn't work at all (no reports, no cat UI...), so I commented this line.

Hope il will help

coldbear · 05/24/08, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by ecopsorn

Well yesterday I got so disappointed of the powershift-macros that I disabled them...
Yesterday in Karazhan it happened throughout the run 4 times, that I got stuck in caster form and were casting starfire. This is a much greater loss than the macros can bring back in my mind.

Hopefully it will work out once, I don't understand why it can even happen

Same thing here. I'm about to just go back to my regular old !Cat Form macro and control it manually. I don't seem to powershift as much as I should in raids, and when I do, I frequently get stuck in caster form.

Maybe it's the energy threshold levels I have set?

Mangle 19 (used to be set at 20)

Shred 21 (formerly 22)

Rip 9 (formerly 10)

Allev · 05/24/08, 5:33 PM

I modified the mana regen XLS from the new int/spirit theorycrafting page to facilitate mana consumption. Here's the product of my work:

Filefront: MP5-modified-feral.xls

While I'm not a master crafter of Excel files, I thought this might be useful for spreadsheet/Rawr tools, or even planning how you're going to be running cycles as fights go on.

What the sheet definitely doesn't have is a good estimator of OO5SR. Generally, 1 shift per cycle at 12s cycle time is 5 shifts/min, and if you assume each shift is 5s away from the last one, your OO5SR time is around 5/12 = 41.6%. But I can't give probabilities that two shifts will occur within the same 5SR-- although shift->attack->shift can't happen any faster than 2.5s, so each shift is a minimum of 2.5s subtracted from OO5SR.

Anyways, enjoy.

ecopsorn · 05/24/08, 7:35 PM

Originally Posted by coldbear

Same thing here. I'm about to just go back to my regular old !Cat Form macro and control it manually. I don't seem to powershift as much as I should in raids, and when I do, I frequently get stuck in caster form.

Maybe it's the energy threshold levels I have set?

Mangle 19 (used to be set at 20)

Shred 21 (formerly 22)

Rip 9 (formerly 10)

I have the same energy thresholds as you do.
I've adjusted the macros with the ! in front of Cat Form "!Cat Form"
I've placed the macros to the Caster Form as well as the Cat Form buttons (When switching, same shortcuts are used)

None of all this helped. I get stuck in Caster Form too often and therefore the macros won't help me to increase my DPS.

coldbear · 05/24/08, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by ecopsorn

I have the same energy thresholds as you do.
I've adjusted the macros with the ! in front of Cat Form "!Cat Form"
I've placed the macros to the Caster Form as well as the Cat Form buttons (When switching, same shortcuts are used)

None of all this helped. I get stuck in Caster Form too often and therefore the macros won't help me to increase my DPS.

I think the !Cat Form is only used in macros that do nothing other than re-cycle your shift into Cat Form, without checking to see how much energy or mana you have.

raffy · 05/24/08, 11:59 PM

I'm only able to reproduce the powershift bug (with the default macro) like 1% of the time if I spam it like there's no tomorrow.

Could it be related to FPS?

Lolaan · 05/25/08, 8:05 AM

Ok, back in the old days I remember using this script command which I just looked up:

IsUsableAction(slot) - Return 1 if an action can be used at present, nil otherwise.

To get rid of the "this ability is not ready yet" errors but maintaining the rest of the errors (or at least some of them, out of range for example). Since the problem seems to be from what I gathered (at least partially) that Cat Form is getting canceled while you are unable to shift back into cat form.

Has anyone tried using this script to see if it would stop you from shifting out inappropriately?

One if its return values is:

isUsable
Flag - Returns 1 if the action is valid for use at present (Does NOT include cooldown or range tests), nil otherwise.

However, I don't know how well/if this would work, its just an idea. I gotta find someone to help test and I'll report back

EDIT:

Action is still considered "usable" while stunned. This is probably on purpose so people couldn't create uber scripts in the old code (as if they weren't bad enough already).

However, it might still be worth a shot if you haven't tried it already. It will prevent you from canceling the buff if you have insufficient mana to shift into form. Might simplify that check depending on how you have it setup (not to mention it should be useable within a macro.

EDIT:

Is IsUsableSpell and IsUsableAction result as the same thing? What's the difference. Takes too long to read through the whole thread, you forget what's at the beginning, oops. But I notice IsUsableAction has 2 returns and IsUsableSpell has 1? Anyone know if there's any tangible difference between the two?

Starlight · 05/25/08, 10:23 PM

I'm not 100% sure if powershifting is as effective as it used to be im using the macro from the first reply by Maeltne and im not seeing that if any of a dps increase. i have the 4pt6 so i have the reduced mangle should i be using a different value? and there is a slight delay from the 40 energy tick from furor so is it still worth it?

raffy · 05/26/08, 3:04 AM

Originally Posted by Starlight

I'm not 100% sure if powershifting is as effective as it used to be im using the macro from the first reply by Maeltne and im not seeing that if any of a dps increase. i have the 4pt6 so i have the reduced mangle should i be using a different value? and there is a slight delay from the 40 energy tick from furor so is it still worth it?

Powershifting is always a DPS increase when the net energy gain is positive.

Long-term energy-based DPS is governed solely by energy ticks (every two seconds) so there is always idle time where you are doing nothing other than auto-attacking.

Given that you powershift when your energy is low, around 15 or so, you should see a significant upgrade in your DPS. Remember, you're only exchanging mana for more energy, the swing timer does not reset. In other words, a proper powershift is one in which you have more energy after the gcd (from the powershift) ends, than if you didn't shift at all.)

Starlight · 05/26/08, 3:17 AM

Originally Posted by Maeltne

Special thanks to Malthoreniel (I *never* would have thought of this myself)

I'm kinda anti-addon'ish for macroable abilities, but will completely overcome this disability the moment I find a simple add-on that can check if you are stunned (assuming this cannot be reasonably done in < 50 characters in a macro).

My current macros:

/run local c=DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME if pws then pws=false c:AddMessage("Powershift disabled",1,1,1) else pws=true c:AddMessage("Powershift enabled",1,1,1)end

This will turn on/off the powershifing component of the following attacks. Turn on to improve raid DPS, turn off for long farming sessions, etc.

#showtooltip
/run if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')>14 or not IsUsableSpell(f) or CancelPlayerBuff(f) end
/cast [form] Mangle (Cat)()
/stopmacro [form]
/use [alt] item:22838
/cast Cat Form

This will powershift, if possible/enabled and your energy is less than 15, and use a Haste Potion (if Alt is held). Otherwise it will simply Mangle

#showtooltip
/run if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')>15 or not IsUsableSpell(f) or GetComboPoints()>3 or CancelPlayerBuff(f) end
/cast [form] Shred
/stopmacro [form]
/use [alt] item:22838
/cast Cat Form

This will powershift, if possible/enabled and your energy is less than 16, and have less than 4 combo points; and use a Haste Potion (if Alt is held). Otherwise it will simply Shred.

#showtooltip
/run if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')>9 or not IsUsableSpell(f) or CancelPlayerBuff(f) end
/use 13
/use 14
/cast [form] Rip
/stopmacro [form]
/cast Cat Form

This will powershift, if possible/enabled and your energy is less than 10. Otherwise it will simply Rip. In either case it will activate both of your trinkets.

thats what im using for my powershifting are those numbers right for a 4pt6 set up? i've never really used the power shifting but i found myself stuck in caster however on Brutallus tonight there was a 200dps upgrade and i wasnt even in the melee group (no shaman or battle shout)

timberwoof · 05/26/08, 5:17 AM

Originally Posted by raffy

Powershifting is always a DPS increase when the net energy gain is positive.

There is not big positive gain with high latency, also there is a chance to stuck in humanoid form. I've tested it a bit, it still can be used with 200ms, but I don't recommend to use powershifting with 300+ ms latency.

Mijae · 05/26/08, 7:51 AM

How much powershifting is actually affected by latency depends on the answers to some of my previous questions that it doesn't seem anyone knows.

Originally Posted by Starlight

thats what im using for my powershifting are those numbers right for a 4pt6 set up? i've never really used the power shifting but i found myself stuck in caster however on Brutallus tonight there was a 200dps upgrade and i wasnt even in the melee group (no shaman or battle shout)

The dps gain of powershifting is a bit complex. Based on my calcs, the max you can get is 30 energy (if shift at 0). This is due to the tick reset. So, one powershift gain is worth (30-threshold) energy.

While an initial interpretation of the value might be (shift gain)/(shred cost)*(avg shred damage), it's not quite true. In general, extra energy does not translate directly into extra damage. Instead it just makes more energy available for the cycle, effectively reducing the overall cycle time. It ends up being similar to the 2t4 bonus, but more controllable. So, if previously you were not using 2t4 and not shifting... your cycles were most likely 14-15 secs. I don't have your WWS, but my initial guess is you ended up with a higher Rip uptime and possibly fewer mangles per shred (or even unmangled shreds before), both of which increases dps.

Knoli · 05/26/08, 8:22 AM

Originally Posted by raffy

http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGridConcept.jpg (original prototype)
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid.jpg (first working version)
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid2.jpg (second version, supports shared debuff groups, more prefs)

Edit:
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid3.jpg (latest version, pulsing, progress bars, more settings)

Where can i get it? I really need this thing.

◊ Merple · 05/26/08, 9:19 AM

Originally Posted by raffy

http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGridConcept.jpg (original prototype)
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid.jpg (first working version)
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid2.jpg (second version, supports shared debuff groups, more prefs)

Edit:
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid3.jpg (latest version, pulsing, progress bars, more settings)

This looks exceptional from all angles. I'm using Demon to monitor this now, but this looks like a great upgrade.

charlimangy · 05/26/08, 11:01 AM

Thanks for the mod, Raffy, I've been going back and forth about powershifting manually since I learned about it, and having it done automatically is a great idea, for me.

I used the macros for the first time last night in Karazhan. Here's a few comments:

1. I really wanted to turn the "summary after combat" thing off, but couldn't figure out how to do it.
2. What I really want is a summary over a longer period. Like a summary command I can activate when I want.

Because this add-on is a kind of a "magic" macro, the thing I most want is something that gives me reassurance that it is actually working.

I *think* it was working, at least some of the time. My DPS stayed about the same as previous runs, but our hunter respeced so I was missing the Improved Hunters Mark buff, so I think that offset the DPS gain from the add on.

I am curious about how best to use the macros. It feels a little weird to be spamming an attack when I know I don't have enough energy for it. Should I be doing that?