JonIrenicus

Ok, thank you for the clarification. So its a nerf but that bad of a nerf. Increasing the duration to 10s doubles the old duration, so its roughly like having the effect of 2 WG mages under the old scheme in terms of the uptime of the effect. BEyond that it has no stacking components which is what was needed, and frost got 10% more total damage on top of not being able to multi stack WG mages, not earth shattering.


Unless I am seeing something incorrectly. I think it just seems bad due to the VERY nice arcane buffs. And I agree that brain freeze should either be frostbolt with some pushback resistance, or something else entirely, not fireball. But again, overall not a bad change to keep frost mages from being broken.

 

◊ Kyth

@Jonl: read my post, it's corrected.


Brain Freeze appears bugged, I haven't gotten any procs at all in 45 minutes of levelling.

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JonIrenicus

.. nevermind... damn

 

Lhivera

OK, so it's a buff, not a debuff, and that means it'll definitely (when fixed) only apply to the next spellcast. This is highly unfortunate, not so much for the lost damage as for the lost interactivity. Frost is back to spamming Frostbolt, and that's just sad.

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JonIrenicus

I am still holding out hope for it, there are many buffs when active that last the duration not just on the next spell cast.... even though this does not seem to be one of them based off the wording... but until its confirmed my hope lives.

 

masakenji

whats with all the changes to arcane?

i think its stupid really. they should've just added this one "spell" instead of all that. really arcane barrage wouldnt even hold a candle to it. i can do 2200 dps with it, and 2000+ without it on brutallas. (im quite undergeared btw).

the spell is called "innervate". simple and clean.

 

Sparkz

Actually Lhivera, when you think about it, does this talent really make sense? If Blastwave now provides knockback, and Flamestrike has a small radius, how are you supposed to hit the things you've just scattered away from you when your Blastwave gives you an instant Flamestrike?

I guess it depends on how much knockback Blastwave provides - but it sure seems to me that it won't take very much knockback to render the instant Flamestrike fairly ineffective. Scattering mobs just seems illogical if you then want to follow up with another AOE, especially one with a small blast radius.

It does work OK with Dragon's Breath - your targets are going to be disoriented right in front of you. It seems like they would be pretty hard to miss with the follow-up Flamestrike.

I also question the logic of granting an instant, ranged AOE attack as proc from point-blank range AOE attacks. I mean, there's no reason you can't do that, but it doesn't seem to me all that likely you'd want to Flamestrike stuff at range if you just waded into a group of mobs and launched a Blastwave / Dragon's Breath combo...

Please correct me if I'm thinking about this in the wrong way. This talent seems like a darn good try, but it seems not quite right yet, at least to me.

 

Finkum

I think this is true of a LOT of the current iteration of talents. Good intentions, but questionable execution. Given the breadth of the changes it seems the devs are still in the "brainstorm" phase rather than the "polish and refine" phase.

 

JonIrenicus

This is actually good new, it says this is likely not the finishing touch, and that interest is HIGH in terms of getting things right this time... except with fire, but as I despise fire I can live with that.

 

Searix

In tandem to Lhivera:

Arcane
Improved Arcane Missiles still costs to much for doing to little
Focus Magic You didn't express this well enough. What are they thinking. Mages and classes in general should NOT be forced into a "bitch" spec. Not only that, but a mana hogging talent with little thought put into it? Stacking casters makes this talent worse? Make the mage respec if he isn't this talent? ...
Arcane Shielding Now gives an additional 20 resists when using mage armor. Still a horrible talent.
Arcane Potency I love it, a lot. Please fix it with arcane missiles and other unintended features and i'll be more than happy
Slow Still the worst 41 point talent in the game.

Fire
With Bane being buffed so much, where does Improved Fireball/Frostbolt/Arcane Missiles fit in?
Burning Determination Uhh so you can't get interrupted twice in 10 seconds, when already most interrupt abilities lock you down for 4/5-8 seconds already.
Fiery Payback Again, i don't want to play my mage in a non-intended, dumb, and exploited style to maximize dps. Give this a cooldown.
Living Bomb Another pvp only talent. Making mages have 4/6 of their unique 41/51 point talents pvp only talents (Slow, Dragon's Breath, Living Bomb, Deep Freeze), the highest of any class.

Frost
Lhivera did a good job going over this. Only objection i have is that brain freeze looks to be decent in promoting elementalist builds.

Overall i am still glad about many of the changes, Shatter shield was a horrible level 80 spell and hopefully they'll think of something fitting. Change at this point is a good start, i just really hope this wasn't a one time look over and then done.

 

MetallicaRulez0

I said the same thing on my guild forums. The knockback on Blast Wave is a big PvP buff and a big PvE nerf. If I'm AoEing, the absolute last thing I want to be doing is scattering mobs.

 

Akston

Would be nice if they had just dropped this hit part and made it a self buff instead of completely neutering it.

 

◊ manly

Interesting data about focus magic.

AM: 952
AM + FM: 981
AM + scorch: 1047
AM + scorch + FM: 1080

This means that focus magic with no debuffs adds 30 damage every tick (ie: the focus magic gives 150 damage over the entire AM). Also, the 150 dmg is affected by debuffs.

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bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Jarlyn

So is FM subject to whatever spell coefficients are attached to the spell? ie, is it a flat 150 damage to say, Frostbolt or is it modified by Frostbolt's coefficient? Would seem to be the former, but AM is always a weird one.

 

Mode

Classes with interrupts that this has no effect on when fighting solo:

-Warriors
-Mages
-Death Knights (Theirs is exactly like Pummel - 4 sec lockout/10 sec cooldown)
Edit because I am an idiot that forgot the cooldown on kick until I looked it up for an unrelated reason: -Rogues

Classes this will bugger:
-Shaman

It also makes you function better when multiple interrupters are targetting you, e.g. mage/rogue, shaman/warrior, etc. Edit: I am not arguing it's an awesome talent, but it's by no means useless.

 

Etherealz

Does it eat only one charge though?

If it does scale with debuffs it becomes something like 9-10k dmg (non crit damage) for 1000 mana instant.

 

◊ manly

Re-tested burnout. Still 162.5% pre ignite. So its still half of spell power.

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bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

itchytf

First post here, so I'lll just quickly say hi!

I'm exited about these new talent changes. It's nice to see mages getting some work done to a lot of their less used talents as well as additional ones.

A few thought I have though:
-Blastwave: A knockback is awesome for PvP. Another interrupt, get those pesky melee off you not to mention that it suits the spell so very nicely. However I'd like to echo the problem of scattering mobs in PvE plus they'll be dazed so it will take them a bit of time to get back to the tank.

-Fingers of frost: I don't suppose there's much chance of being able to tag an extra icelance onto a frostbolt when this procs, similar to the combustion 'bug' with fireblast? Someone said it was a buff that would be consumed rather than a debuff so probably not, but it's a thought...

-Fingers of frost 2: If they're changing it to a self buff then compared to the old version where it was possible to get multiple spells off, wouldn't it make more sense to give it 2 or 3 charges? If it were then as someone was pointing out earlier it might be possible to use Deep Freeze in conjunction with it even when chain casting (where as now it would be "oops too late")

-Arcane flows: great, can now be timed perfectly for use with 2 min trinkets.

-Burning Determination: I'm not a huge arena player, but I don't really see many circumstances where a mage would get counterspelled or silenced more than once every 10 seconds...don't you save those for the healer usually?

-Brain Freeze: I can't see any reason why this should be fireball over frostfire bolt. I hope it's changed.

Here's my 3 min mage frostfire bolt spec.

With crazy damage on crits, 30% extra chance to crit on presence of mind combined with arcane power/icy veins/focus magic and possible double dipping on the scorch debuff it could pump out some serious damage hehe. May be fun to see how high a number you can pull off

 

◊ manly

Well, heres the weird part about focus magic i can't figure out. It seems like it can crit, and its always 200%, even on arcane spells. My numbers are probably messed up by partials or whatnot. But crits affects the numbers.

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bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Lhivera

OK, I'm confused...is it acting like an Amplify Magic type deal, increasing the size of your Arcane Missiles ticks? Or is it inflicting separate damage ticks, like that stealable buff in MgT that deals Holy damage to the target whenever you damage it? When you say it can crit, I'm kind of imagining these separate 300-point damage numbers adjacent to your spell damage numbers.

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Alaron

I'd be curious how and if this interacted with procs like a paladin's holy shield, ret aura, paly seals, a rogue's poison, that sort of thing. It already seems like a bit of a pain to keep up since it would likely need re-application ever 15 secs or so in a 25 man raid (though not so bad if you have 2 mages alternating), but it would be a nightmare in the event that those ate through charges as well. My guess (hope, even though I play my war as a main now) would be no to most, but you never know, and it would still probally be worthwhile to confirm.

 

Xequecal

It's not a straight 7500 damage. Spells cast at the boss with coefficients lower than 100% will tend to make it do less. Spells with coefficients higher than 100% will tend to make it do more. Even if it's not multiplied by debuffs, it's almost surely multiplied by crits, which will tend to make it do much more.

That said, I doubt it's very good, as the charges will get eaten by Rogue poisons, Elemental Shaman shocking, Ret Paladins judging, even Arcane Shot and the new Explosive Shot might knock charges off.

 

Deedre

Manly, is that focus magic crit a seperate roll, or does it crit when the parent spell crits? Is it affected by AP?

Lhivera, thanks for the free beer, heh.

 

Roywyn

You know what's funny? Arcane Missiles with constant +30% crit still sucks.
Frostfire Bolt spam builds were looking at 0 arcane before. 33 arcane is consists of 3 good, 6 decent and 24 completely wasted point.
Fireball spam builds were either 33 arcane or 0 arcane. BC stongly favoured 0 arcane because 28=>42 fire is good. Wrath favoured 33 arcane because 38=>50 fire is pretty mediocre.

Haven't seen the full consequences of the changes yet, except that you want 1 and maybe only 1 Bloo... erm, Arcane Frenzy Mage in the raid.

33% haste doesn't sound so bad. You get 20.1% passive haste from WoA/Ret/NWPresense, so you'd need 11% from haste rating on gear. Sounds doable.

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And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

Hildegard

Fokus Magic looks like a buff to poison damage. We don't know the new ranks but this also scales really well and instant poison looks like the ability gaining the biggest percentage increase by Fokus Magic. I imagine this to give rogues 150 or more additional DPS as it scales extremly good with haste and hit and expertise and crit rating.

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