Oh god. "Father Forgive Them For They Know Not What They Do."
That's going to put holes into mobs and our mana pools alike. Hopefully they shot down 2T5 along with that.
I'd imagine that 25% per stack locks it in as the mana dump for everybody instead of just arcane. Assuming max rank isn't sustainable, I'm not looking forward to spamming downranked ABs for a fight.
This may give a clue as to whether Deep Freeze will damage boss targets: Talked to a Druid friend, and he claims that Pounce, which stuns a target and applies a bleed, will apply the bleed even if the target is immune to the stun.
At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.
This may give a clue as to whether Deep Freeze will damage boss targets: Talked to a Druid friend, and he claims that Pounce, which stuns a target and applies a bleed, will apply the bleed even if the target is immune to the stun.
I'm not sure that it's the same. Pounce applies two separate debuffs and the stun debuff simply doesn't show up on immune mobs. A warrior's hamstring is probably closer and I can't remember it ever not applying damage, but I don't really play the warrior much.
Molten fury has no relationship with AB. If AB is worth casting during molten fury, then it means its worth casting outside of it too.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
I'm not sure that it's the same. Pounce applies two separate debuffs and the stun debuff simply doesn't show up on immune mobs. A warrior's hamstring is probably closer and I can't remember it ever not applying damage, but I don't really play the warrior much.
The Pally spell "Holy Wrath" is probably the best test:
Sends bolts of holy power in all directions, causing [ 7% of AP + 7% of Spell Power + 777 ] Holy damage and stunning all Undead and Demon targets within 10 yds for 3 sec.
If a Pally can find a stun-immune Undead or Demon target (maybe that 5-man quest demon on the floating island in NW Netherstorm?) it could be tested there.
At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.
i'm actually a little rusty on my arcane mechanics. Would 3stack cost 335*(1.75^3) or 335*(1.75*3)?
If its the later, then its hard to see how the 3600mp/5 is sustainable. The former, however, is very much sustainable and makes for a very nice arcane main-nuke if you can chain-cast without much hassle.
This issue definitely needs pushing. My own preference is for these debuffs to be deeper, rather than more accessible; my preference would be for any deep build to be limited to bringing a single debuff. This promotes multiple specs, rather than forcing people into 50ish/21ish specs.
At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.
This issue definitely needs pushing. My own preference is for these debuffs to be deeper, rather than more accessible; my preference would be for any deep build to be limited to bringing a single debuff. This promotes multiple specs, rather than forcing people into 50ish/21ish specs.
I do believe extremely strongly in this issue. The way things are now, talent-wise, it extremely favors deep frost specs. It pretty much forces every raid to have 1 deep frost mage. The other issues I pointed were annoying, but this one is just, it has to be fixed.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
New Cuts w/effects listed -
Beaming Earthsiege Diamond - Increases your total Mana by $s1%.
Invigorating Earthsiege Diamond - Regenerates $o1% of your total Health over $d after being the victim of a critical strike.
Austere Earthsiege Diamond - Increases your armor value from items by $s1%.
Effulgent Skyflare Diamond - Reduces spell damage taken by $s1%.
Forlorn Skyflare Diamond - Reduces the duration of any Silence effects on you by $s1%. This effect does not stack with other similar effects.
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I think I found our new level 80 spell:
Mirror Image - Creates 2 copies of the caster nearby, which cast spells and attack the mage's enemies. Lasts $d.
It's a new lvl 80 spell in this build, and I'm fairly sure about the 2 copies, just not the duration.
nice find. I guess though that its not yet trainable on beta or it would have been mentioned already. I'd be interested in seeing cooldowns and if the 'mirrors' actually deal damage or if they're just meant to be a decoy in PvP.
nice find. I guess though that its not yet trainable on beta or it would have been mentioned already. I'd be interested in seeing cooldowns and if the 'mirrors' actually deal damage or if they're just meant to be a decoy in PvP.
Originally Posted by aikiwoce
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I think I found our new level 80 spell:
Mirror Image - Creates 2 copies of the caster nearby, which cast spells and attack the mage's enemies. Lasts $d.
It's a new lvl 80 spell in this build, and I'm fairly sure about the 2 copies, just not the duration.
Reading the post you quote may help answer some of your questions
Fingers of Frost having 2 charges instead of a short time limit (it does have a 10 sec limit) is annoying. I'd much rather gave a short time and be able to work in more interesting combos. Some open questions:
-- If FoF has a 10 sec, 2 charge limit and is a self-buff, does that mean I can crank out 2 blizzards that fully shatter crit? That seems, well, kinda powerful.
-- If Deep Freeze is now instacast, does the FB/IL shatter combo get replaced by FB/DF now (when DF is up, of course)? Pair that with the WE "freeze as the FB leaves your hand" trick and that seems, well, kinda powerful.
-- Is there any drawback to changing FoF to 3-4 seconds, no charges? If that isn't a dumb idea for some reason, does someone want to suggest it on the forums?
Reading the post you quote may help answer some of your questions
I don't think that clears it up. Spells and abilities taken from previous Warcraft games *tend* to stay pretty true to their origins. The Blademaster's mirror images in WC3 could attack, those attacks simply did no damage. They're be little point to mirror images if they didn't attack and cast spells, otherwise it'd be obvious which were the decoys. The question is whether those attacks and spells deal damage.
Reading the post you quote may help answer some of your questions
I think his point was that just because they attack doesn't mean they do any damage. They might cast an Ice Lance at your target when you cast an Ice Lance, but only the real one does damage, for example.
Or, they might work like Voodoo Gnomes. That could be cool, or it could be horrible.
Originally Posted by Zeldyrr
Fingers of Frost having 2 charges instead of a short time limit (it does have a 10 sec limit) is annoying. I'd much rather gave a short time and be able to work in more interesting combos.
...
-- Is there any drawback to changing FoF to 3-4 seconds, no charges? If that isn't a dumb idea for some reason, does someone want to suggest it on the forums?
My preference is the same as yours; it would allow me to use an Ice Lance or a Deep Freeze (although I guess that happens anyway now that Deep Freeze is instant). However, while the short duration was suggested on the Beta forum (Koraa countered with the extra charge in his reply), PvPers did respond that it would make the talent essentially worthless to them. Whether that's true or not, I don't know.
Further support for it dealing damage vs. bosses: Frost Shock deals damage vs. targets immune to snares.
So what this means, as I'm getting pretty confident that we can use Deep Freeze to DPS bosses, is the typical deep Frost rotation is going to be 8 non-Shatter Frostbolts, 1.5 Shatter Frostbolts, 0.5 Deep Freezes, and 1.5 free and instant Fireballs. Maybe a larger number of Deep Freezes and smaller number of Shatter Frostbolts, but that's a conservative estimate.
At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.
Dorvan: The closest current ability I can think of to this would be the 'summons' of the Auchenai in the Auchenai Crypts. Those certainly could do damage.
Reading the post you quote may help answer some of your questions
Sorry, I should have been clearer in my post. I was really asking if the damage is going to be substantial, and used as a DPS cooldown in PvE, alá shaman spirit wolves. If its only minor damage then its more likely a decoy and a gimik for PvP...
It'll certainly be interesting to see what they cast though, and if the mage's spec/stats affect them at all.
Aiki; does the spell specify level 80 required? If its a mob ability it generally won't have a level requirement on it.
Also, I appreciate what you're doing mining info and all, but the things there that arn't mage-specific really should be in the WotLK stuff thread. this thread is big enough as it is
My preference is the same as yours; it would allow me to use an Ice Lance or a Deep Freeze (although I guess that happens anyway now that Deep Freeze is instant). However, while the short duration was suggested on the Beta forum (Koraa countered with the extra charge in his reply), PvPers did respond that it would make the talent essentially worthless to them. Whether that's true or not, I don't know.
Hmmm, I'll go research why that would be. Though frankly even if it is true that might be a good thing. With instacast DF and impact procing on frost spells I fear the snowball rolling down hill that is "frost is the pvp spec, noob, stop raiding with it" will just gather more momentum. A talent that is pvp-unfriendly in frost would be great and get people to look at fire/arcane for pvp. I'm biased of course.
Edit: Just reread that forum post. The concern was getting off a deep freeze on a target. Now that DF is active, I don't think it would be a big deal to change it to 4 sec, no charges. I guess with a 10 sec duration now you could run around for 9 sec in pvp and then DF at the end. But I stand by my statement that frost doesn't need more pvp love--quite the opposite in truth.
Sorry, I should have been clearer in my post. I was really asking if the damage is going to be substantial, and used as a DPS cooldown in PvE, alá shaman spirit wolves. If its only minor damage then its more likely a decoy and a gimik for PvP...
It'll certainly be interesting to see what they cast though, and if the mage's spec/stats affect them at all.
Aiki; does the spell specify level 80 required? If its a mob ability it generally won't have a level requirement on it.
Also, I appreciate what you're doing mining info and all, but the things there that arn't mage-specific really should be in the WotLK stuff thread. this thread is big enough as it is
I'm not extremely certain what all the values mean, but I do know which columns specify "spell level" and "required level to learn spell." Generally mob abilities have the same number in both, as do new player abilities. When the servers come up we can see for sure.
Oh, and ya I know the non-mage specific stuff should really be elsewhere, but some of it kinda effected mages. I'll try to keep that stuff separate from now on.
This is the data on the Mirror image spell (important numbers are underlined:
Another update:
Found this new spell, that might be a possible replacement for Focus Magic in some future build. Should be a 12s duration effect, like Living Bomb. I can't stress POSSIBLE enough as it might be a new mob ability, but I don't think so.
Mirror Images in WC3 always did damage. They generally did half damage (or some percent of damage, and took 300% damage).
You may be thinking of various implementations of Mirror Image in WC3 mods (e.g in Footmen Frenzy), but in the base game itself they didn't deal damage:
That said, the simplest thing is just to wait until we can play around with the spell for ourselves. I'm not at all convinced they'll do no damage, I was merely pointing out that there's some reason for uncertainty in the matter.
Mirror image.... *happy grin* wow! I really hope this will be the new mage spell. It does offcourse raise a lot of questions about how the images will work, but in what ever way it works its a very very cool spell. it feels right for and arcane spell to be added.
Ok, so lets asume that this is what we get. How would the clones act? For the spell not to be completely useless in pve they would haveto either be able to take he heat for aggrosituations, or they haveto deal damage. But if they deal damage they can hardly have them just copy your spells and deal an equal amount of damage. Or well.. that just sounds very op if you want them around for mor than 5 sec. Then again perhaps they are only meant as a very short time diversion since they probably wont be able to fool a good pvper for more than 5 sec. Time for list.
If mages gets shadow images:
* how long will the CD be (or if not CD bound whats the mechanic limiting their use) and whats their duration?
* How will they act, will they copy everything you do or have independant actions
* if they copy your actions how will they face their targets, will they be easy to spot as fakes due to facing?
* if the copy you actions how many % of your damage (if any) do their spells do?
* if they cast individual spells how smart and non obvious can htey be programmed?
* if they cast individual spells do they only spam nukes or use any other spells?
* will they spawn randomly around you so you cant always tell wich one is the original?
* how much hp will they have?
Some questions off the top of my head. Yea yea I know, its nothing but a rumor so far and testing wont be possible untill they both implement it and raise the level cap to 80 on beta. But a spel like this just tickles my mage nerves and a list of questions about the spell will be vompiled sooner or later so I might as well start it.
Plopp plopp kaboom! This is an intelligent signature.
08/08/08, 9:09 PM
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