[Mage] WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion - Page 167

aikiwoce · 08/08/08, 10:22 PM

Are the Beta servers up? Could we get some confirmation?

Jonny_Monroe · 08/08/08, 10:27 PM

Apparently they're gonna be down for 6 to 8 hours.

Establishes a mana link to the target, causing spells you cast to draw from the linked target's mana pool instead of your own. Lasts $d.

This is OP by a long, long way. Unless it can only be cast on friendly targets, in which case I struggle to see how it can be usefull at all. But on enemy targets? Hello Mr. Warlock, you can pay for my mana shields while I AB you down.

But if its friendly target only, what are you gonna do? call out over voice chat 'Hey, my mana is low can anyone let me use theirs for a while?'... situationally useful in a situation you should be hoping never happens, really.

Deltrus · 08/08/08, 10:28 PM

servers are up MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Scheduled Maintenance 8/8/08

Dorvan · 08/08/08, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jonny_Monroe

This is OP by a long, long way. Unless it can only be cast on friendly targets, in which case I struggle to see how it can be usefull at all. But on enemy targets? Hello Mr. Warlock, you can pay for my mana shields while I AB you down.

But if its friendly target only, what are you gonna do? call out over voice chat 'Hey, my mana is low can anyone let me use theirs for a while?'... situationally useful in a situation you should be hoping never happens, really.

I would assume it's on friendly targets, and while it's usefulness won't be entirely clear until we have a better picture on mana management in WotLK, I can certainly think of plenty of uses in TBC: when I'm tanking a boss on my Prot Pally I've got no shortage of mana to say the least, and my holy priest rarely goes below about 70% mana in heroics, and even in raids has mana to spare on all but the most healing intensive fights.

aikiwoce · 08/08/08, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Jonny_Monroe

Apparently they're gonna be down for 6 to 8 hours.

This is OP by a long, long way. Unless it can only be cast on friendly targets, in which case I struggle to see how it can be usefull at all. But on enemy targets? Hello Mr. Warlock, you can pay for my mana shields while I AB you down.

But if its friendly target only, what are you gonna do? call out over voice chat 'Hey, my mana is low can anyone let me use theirs for a while?'... situationally useful in a situation you should be hoping never happens, really.

MMO-Champion is updating with new info from the beta servers, at least that's the way it looks.

Yeah about Mana Link, it could be a npc ability, it's at the right level that it could be one or the other. It also seems to be something they are toying around with, and it doesn't seem to be complete or anywhere near balanced.

I hesitate to post this, but it made me lol irl for like 20s.

Mammoth Jack - You have successfully mammoth jacked Enormos!

Jonny_Monroe · 08/08/08, 10:33 PM

well, if it does turn out to be a player (mage) ability, can someone find out for us and maybe test it? It'd be interesting to know if, since you're effectively not spending mana on your spells, you're considered OOFSR while its up.

Ulthwithian · 08/08/08, 10:34 PM

Jonny: Note that the target casts spells using your mana pool. This lends much more use to the effect. If nothing else, you can become a mana battery for your healer, e.g.

It's a _very_ interesting ability, and depending on how it works, it may not even be overpowered being able to place it on enemies.

aikiwoce · 08/08/08, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ulthwithian

Jonny: Note that the target casts spells using your mana pool. This lends much more use to the effect. If nothing else, you can become a mana battery for your healer, e.g.

It's a _very_ interesting ability, and depending on how it works, it may not even be overpowered being able to place it on enemies.

Guys, It's probably not going to be available in this build, and I shouldn't have mentioned it. It looks highly experimental at best.

Roywyn · 08/08/08, 10:36 PM

Updated http://elitistjerks.com/846078-post4020.html

Ignoring "Torment of the Weak" until we know what it does.

1) Weaving Deep Freeze has a very minor impact on DPS at high gear, only ~1%. It might save mana though.
2) Arcane spec generally sucks because the tree lacks DPS talents. Shocker!
3) Fireball looks always worse than Frostfire Bolt at high gear (unless you cannot get 14 points in Frost).
4) The increase if Blast spam damage now requires 4 frost/fire/arcane users to make a WC spec a raid DPS gain.

5) Spammed Arcane Blast is the highest DPM spell for Arcane that is significant.
(Unstacked Blast, Frostbolt, Frostfirebolt have better DPM but are incapable of any DPS).

Blast spam for DPM. I never thought I'd live to see that day.

aikiwoce · 08/08/08, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Updated http://elitistjerks.com/846078-post4020.html
..
5) Spammed Arcane Blast is the highest DPM spell for Arcane that is significant.
(Unstacked Blast, Frostbolt, Frostfirebolt have better DPM but are incapable of any DPS).

Blast spam for DPM. I never thought I'd live to see that day.

Are you assuming 10% (Frost Channeling) off the base cost of AB, or the ramped up cost?

Alvira · 08/08/08, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Updated http://elitistjerks.com/846078-post4020.html

Ignoring "Torment of the Weak" until we know what it does.

1) Weaving Deep Freeze has a very minor impact on DPS at high gear, only ~1%. It might save mana though.
2) Arcane spec generally sucks because the tree lacks DPS talents. Shocker!
3) Fireball looks always worse than Frostfire Bolt at high gear (unless you cannot get 14 points in Frost).
4) The increase if Blast spam damage now requires 4 frost/fire/arcane users to make a WC spec a raid DPS gain.

5) Spammed Arcane Blast is the highest DPM spell for Arcane that is significant.
(Unstacked Blast, Frostbolt, Frostfirebolt have better DPM but are incapable of any DPS).

Blast spam for DPM. I never thought I'd live to see that day.

Errr, what changed about Arcane to make it "sucks cos it lacks DPS talents?" The tree didn't change in the sense they didn't remove any DPS talents at all! In fact, if AB continues to proc missile barrage, itsn't that a DPS increase?

BTW, mirror image for new mage spell!!!!! I am giddy with anticipation, I have always wanted mirror image!

Jonny_Monroe · 08/08/08, 10:55 PM

Blast spam for DPM. I never thought I'd live to see that day.

If the DPM is so good do you really need to get frost channeling? Can't you take some of the nicer looking arcane 'utility' tallents? prismatic cloak or magic abs? 50/3/15(+3) is what i'm playing with right now but I need to see how raid mana consumption works out.

aikiwoce · 08/08/08, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Alvira

Errr, what changed about Arcane to make it "sucks cos it lacks DPS talents?" The tree didn't change in the sense they didn't remove any DPS talents at all! In fact, if AB continues to proc missile barrage, itsn't that a DPS increase?

BTW, mirror image for new mage spell!!!!! I am giddy with anticipation, I have always wanted mirror image!

Still needs confirmation from our beta friends.

Gothia · 08/08/08, 11:09 PM

Did some quick tests and seems FoF and Shattered Barrier are still bugged.

Jonny_Monroe · 08/08/08, 11:22 PM

Living Bomb
-procs with you as the center of the explosion instead of the target, and the explosion procs every 3 seconds in sync with the dot instead of at the end of the spell.
-coefficient seems to be 0.729 for the dot over the duration of the spell, 0.429 on the explosion.

nice co-ef on the DoT, even if the rest is still broken.

radikal · 08/08/08, 11:28 PM

I posted a quick clip of that rotation I was TCing about on radikalnoise.com

ffb->scorch->fb->lb->ffb->scorch->il->ffb->scorch->fb->ffb->scorch->il REPEAT

manly · 08/08/08, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Alvira

Errr, what changed about Arcane to make it "sucks cos it lacks DPS talents?" The tree didn't change in the sense they didn't remove any DPS talents at all! In fact, if AB continues to proc missile barrage, itsn't that a DPS increase?

BTW, mirror image for new mage spell!!!!! I am giddy with anticipation, I have always wanted mirror image!

Its pretty obvious. They cranked AB stack damage gain by 25% instead of 15%. That means a 3 stack AB has +75% damage rather than +45%. More damage = better dpm.

Maybe if they had the presence of mind to increase the mana cost of AB or the extra mana it costs per stack, it would have had made sense, but at this point I am not too sure what to think. You don't just boost a spell dps by such ridiculous amounts.

Ah also, they really need to pay attention to the scorch/wc issue i pointed out.

Copernicus · 08/08/08, 11:41 PM

* Mana Shield now drains 1.5 mana per damage absorbed.
* Summoned Water Elemental's Waterbolt range increased, mana cost reduced, Freeze range increased, mana cost increased.

WoW Forums -> Wrath of the Lich King: Beta Patch Notes08/08

Deedre · 08/08/08, 11:47 PM

That mana shield change makes incanter's look semi interesting now. Especially if you improve it.

aikiwoce · 08/08/08, 11:48 PM

Spell casting and spell channeling pushback has been changed to the following:

* When casting a spell:

o The first and second hit will add .5 secs each to the cast time.
o All hits after the second will have no effect.

* When channeling a spell:

o The first and second hit reduces current duration by 25% of total duration each.
o All hits after the second will have no effect.

That's a sweet change.

We could use some clarification though. Do hits that have no effect because of spell pushback talents count, or is it only "unmitigated" hits?

Akston · 08/08/08, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by aikiwoce

That's a sweet change.

Finally getting diminishing returns on pushback. About time. Amazing change for pvp too.

• Hamlet · 08/08/08, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Akston

Finally getting diminishing returns on pushback. About time. Amazing change for pvp too.

Pushback has always had diminishing returns. It's currently 1/.8/.6/.4/.2/.2/.2/.2 . . . . This new setup is simply far more favorable (notably, it zeros out, while the current one doesn't).

Deedre · 08/08/08, 11:55 PM

What I especially like about the spell pushback change from a pve standpoint is the change on channelled spells.

You will always be able to get at least 50% of an evo off now barring a hard interrupt.

Lhivera · 08/09/08, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

4) The increase if Blast spam damage now requires 4 frost/fire/arcane users to make a WC spec a raid DPS gain.

Of course the WC Mage counts as one himself, as does the at least 1 Fire 'lock that'll be in the raid, so you're left only needing two more. Also, if you add a Boomkin, the faster proc times on the haste buff will improve it a bit.

Originally Posted by Copernicus

* Mana Shield now drains 1.5 mana per damage absorbed.
* Summoned Water Elemental's Waterbolt range increased, mana cost reduced, Freeze range increased, mana cost increased.

Waterbolt and Freeze now both have a 45-yard range.

2/2 Arcane Shielding now results in a 1:1 mana/absorb ratio. With 3000 spell power and assuming coefficient stays at 55.9%:
Without talent: absorb 3007 damage, total cost 4726
With talent: absorb 3007 damage, total cost 3237

Alvira · 08/09/08, 1:07 AM

Originally Posted by manly

Its pretty obvious. They cranked AB stack damage gain by 25% instead of 15%. That means a 3 stack AB has +75% damage rather than +45%. More damage = better dpm.

Maybe if they had the presence of mind to increase the mana cost of AB or the extra mana it costs per stack, it would have had made sense, but at this point I am not too sure what to think. You don't just boost a spell dps by such ridiculous amounts.

Ah also, they really need to pay attention to the scorch/wc issue i pointed out.

Ok, so DPM went up (which is great). But buffing 3 stack AB definitley buffed DPS of arcane as well. So why in the world would arcane "suck" now because it lacks DPS talents??? Arcane is good now right? In fact, looks to me it got further buffed by the latest changes especially with the AB damage change. So, erm, yeah. I don't understand, its not obvious at all. *confused* lol