The deep Freeze stun applies a debuff thats states "Stunned and Frozen", this debuff stays on the target even if the frozen effect that enabled you to cast deep freeze is removed. So what im doing atm is Frostbolt-Deep Freeze-icelance-icelance shatter combos. Will be interesting to see how the "fixed" version will work.
Arcane Barrage
- Spell damage Coefficient changed. It hits much harder than last patch (last patch typical hit was around 1750 with 1386 spell damage, now getting over 2k with 1325 spell damage). My guess is the coefficient was reverted back to 86%
Wich ranks did you try? Couse rank 1 and 2 of deep freeze are definetly castable. What more, the deep Freeze stun applies a debuff thats states "Stunned and Frozen", this debuff stays on the target even if the frozen effect that enabled you to cast deep freeze is removed. So what im doing atm is Frostbolt-Deep Freeze-icelance-icelance shatter combos. Will be interesting to see how the "fixed" version will work.
To clarify, I meant that the fingers of frost buff does not allow you to cast deep freeze.
Originally Posted by Keoren
Arcane Barrage
- Spell damage Coefficient changed. It hits much harder than last patch (last patch typical hit was around 1750 with 1386 spell damage, now getting over 2k with 1325 spell damage). My guess is the coefficient was reverted back to 86%
Mirror image.... *happy grin* wow! I really hope this will be the new mage spell. It does offcourse raise a lot of questions about how the images will work, but in what ever way it works its a very very cool spell. it feels right for and arcane spell to be added.
Ok, so lets asume that this is what we get. How would the clones act? For the spell not to be completely useless in pve they would haveto either be able to take he heat for aggrosituations, or they haveto deal damage. But if they deal damage they can hardly have them just copy your spells and deal an equal amount of damage. Or well.. that just sounds very op if you want them around for mor than 5 sec. Then again perhaps they are only meant as a very short time diversion since they probably wont be able to fool a good pvper for more than 5 sec. Time for list.
If mages gets shadow images:
* how long will the CD be (or if not CD bound whats the mechanic limiting their use) and whats their duration?
* How will they act, will they copy everything you do or have independant actions
* if they copy your actions how will they face their targets, will they be easy to spot as fakes due to facing?
* if the copy you actions how many % of your damage (if any) do their spells do?
* if they cast individual spells how smart and non obvious can htey be programmed?
* if they cast individual spells do they only spam nukes or use any other spells?
* will they spawn randomly around you so you cant always tell wich one is the original?
* how much hp will they have?
Some questions off the top of my head. Yea yea I know, its nothing but a rumor so far and testing wont be possible untill they both implement it and raise the level cap to 80 on beta. But a spel like this just tickles my mage nerves and a list of questions about the spell will be vompiled sooner or later so I might as well start it.
I imagine it will work just like the Blademaster spell in WC3, with the Images taking more damage. If you have the mage targeted and he MIs, the target will probably be decided through a roll. In WC3, the Mirror Image spell looks like the Blademaster splits, with the three targets standing in a triangle around the original spot of the Blademaster. I imagine it'll be something similar.
A problem will be how /focus interacts with the spell.
Nope, they don't stack. Curse of Elements still stacks with either of them though.
Normal AM: 495-496
AM with CoE: 544-545
AM with WC: 544-545
AM with imp scorch: 544-545
AM with WC + imp scorch: 544-545
AM with CoE + WC: 598-599
AM with CoE + imp scorch: 598-599
AM with CoE + imp scorch + WC: 598-599
Do you know if it will it stack across two Mages, or which one gets priority?
I imagine it will work just like the Blademaster spell in WC3, with the Images taking more damage. If you have the mage targeted and he MIs, the target will probably be decided through a roll. In WC3, the Mirror Image spell looks like the Blademaster splits, with the three targets standing in a triangle around the original spot of the Blademaster. I imagine it'll be something similar.
A problem will be how /focus interacts with the spell.
Well shows how well I can read the spell data file.
My guess is, that both debuffs are up, but only one counts. So it doesn't matter which oneactually counts.
The only difference is that the firemage needs to scorch and the debuff is 30s up, and frostmage can just casts his frostspells but only got 15s time to refresh the buff. So easy going for the frostmage, and business as usual for the firemage.
One good thing with this change is, you only need one mage (either frost or fire) for the debuff, and not 2 or an elemental specced mage.
I imagine it will work just like the Blademaster spell in WC3, with the Images taking more damage. If you have the mage targeted and he MIs, the target will probably be decided through a roll. In WC3, the Mirror Image spell looks like the Blademaster splits, with the three targets standing in a triangle around the original spot of the Blademaster. I imagine it'll be something similar.
A problem will be how /focus interacts with the spell.
Hmm, perhaps this is intended to be a makeover of force of nature but instead of three treants you get three casters isntead. That would still be a cool spell but I really hope they implement feature to it that at least momentarily can confuse enemies who the real caster is. Summoning minions is cool but if its more of a trainable barov peasant caller then the spell name doenst feel right. Oh well, as usual only time will tell I guess.
Plopp plopp kaboom! This is an intelligent signature.
Wait, what, they removed the crit? Maybe that's a method to tone down the FFB build with both buffs.. but seriously a shame.
I reckon its just blizzard's way of addressing the 11/18/28 mage concern. We're looking at viable 2-3mages of just about any intelligent spec bringing nice raid utility now, or at least getting close.
This was by Sbo who is level 77 right. If they were sloppy on coding, you could have a 1-4 level downranking penalty by that level.
Would be great to get a level 70 test without direct damage talents.
Arcane Missiles 10/11 get penalties right after the level you learn them *cough*
Yeah, based on the tests below, it certainly looks like that's what's happening. Which makes this a very strong spell indeed, as long as you can afford to use it.
Gothia, or other testers: Does the explosion damage the primary target, or only nearby targets like SoC?
Originally Posted by KnThrak
It seems they're trying to establish Arcane as a second PvP tree here, or am I misjudging that? Frost as the defense-based PvP setup, Arcane as the offense-based PvP setup?
I know this has been said many times, but it really needs to be driven home: Blizzard does not separate PvP trees and PvE trees. The design intent is for all three trees to be used for both. Here is the quote from Koraa:
Frost is not intended to be the Mages "PvP spec" and Fire isn't intended to be the "PvE spec," they only turned out that way because of unintended factors. We're trying to make Frost more viable in raiding by allowing you to effectively freeze the target without having to nova it, allowing you to throw in some "shatter combos" in your rotation. Arcane, Frost, and Fire (and a mix thereof) should all more or less be viable in as many aspects of the game as possible. Where they should be different is in playstyle and gameplay differences (stacking Scorch vs. freezing and shatter etc.).
As long as people fail to understand this, they cannot evaluate the trees and identify design problems properly.
Originally Posted by Fireflash38
MMO-champion listed in the changes that it is damage instead of crit. And talent calculators are normaly somewhat behind.
MMO-Champion's own calculator, generated from the same build, still lists it as crit. There's also no comment from testers in the Beta forum indicating that it has changed, and indeed there are comments from testers in the Beta forum speculating that changing it could fix the problem of your first Mage having to be deep Frost.
Remember, MMO-Champion is not generating these fake "patch notes" from game data, whereas they are generating their talent calculators from game data. The changes list is created by hand and is very much subject to human error.
This problem does need a solution, but ideally that solution would be moving Improved Scorch deeper into the tree.
Last edited by Lhivera : 08/09/08 at 11:03 AM.
At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.
Its a shame about WC, would be nice to see the ' best' mage spec become all 3 specs (e.g. worth it to have a frost mage, if 3 others in the raid (including an arcane and/or a fire mage) benefit from the buff etc).
If they were concerned about 11/18/28, maybe the solution had rather been to move Imp Scorch down in the fire tree.
If it stays anyway. Everything is still so much up in the air. Even confirmed changes get redone the next day
Mirror image is, according to wowhead, in the arcane school. Mana link however is listed as physical. If I had to guess which was the new mage spell, I'd say the one that belongs in 1 of our schools.
Yeah, based on the tests below, it certainly looks like that's what's happening. Which makes this a very strong spell indeed, as long as you can afford to use it.
Gothia, or other testers: Does the explosion damage the primary target, or only nearby targets like SoC?
Both the dot and the explosion damage both the target and all nearby targets.
Normal AM: 495-496
AM with CoE: 544-545
AM with WC: 544-545
AM with imp scorch: 544-545
AM with WC + imp scorch: 544-545
AM with CoE + WC: 598-599
AM with CoE + imp scorch: 598-599
AM with CoE + imp scorch + WC: 598-599
Which do indeed seem to confirm that it's now an Improved Scorch clone.
What this means is that you no longer bring both a Fire and Frost Mage for his debuff; you bring him for his personal DPS only. While I dislike the loss of the different flavors of these talents, I can understand it; Frost is, after all, gaining 10% crit from FoF. This is also a buff to Water Elemental damage, since 1% damage is worth about twice as much as 1% crit to the WE.
What this really hurts is Deep Fire, which was only reaching comparable performance due to that extra 10% crit working with Burnout.
Originally Posted by Zinaida
Both the dot and the explosion damage both the target and all nearby targets.
Hm, but as the DOT part is pretty certainly a bug, the explosion part may be bugged as well, so we probably shouldn't jump to any conclusions. Thanks, though.
At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.
Mirror image is, according to wowhead, in the arcane school. Mana link however is listed as physical. If I had to guess which was the new mage spell, I'd say the one that belongs in 1 of our schools.
Focus Magic is in the physical school.
Oh, and TC'rs should take note of this:
Totem of Wrath - Summons a Totem of Wrath with 5 health at the feet of the caster. The totem increases the damage done by spells and effects by 6% and increases the chance strike chance of spells and effects by by 3% for all party and raid members within 30 yards. Lasts 2 min.
To prevent dispelling? Probably sensible, as if you can dispel the whole stack at once it's way too expensive to risk using in PvP, and if you can't, it's way too overpowered as dispel protection.
At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.
To prevent dispelling? Probably sensible, as if you can dispel the whole stack at once it's way too expensive to risk using in PvP, and if you can't, it's way too overpowered as dispel protection.
No the dispel type is still magic, but the base spell school is physical. This is probably a bug.
The winter's chill nerf is very likely a typo by mmo-champion. It is not confirmed by any other source (nor in the beta).
edit: they corrected the error.
And wowhead's spell database likewise still lists it as crit. So I dunno what to think now, because how else can we account for Zinaida's test results?
At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.
And wowhead's spell database likewise still lists it as crit. So I dunno what to think now, because how else can we account for Zinaida's test results?
All my data points to it still being crit, but I'll wait and see.
08/09/08, 8:06 AM
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