Well Torment of the Weak is in Tier 4 just like scorch.
It's not a debuff spell that can be applied to a target and therefore I'm assuming that it's simply an improvement to Slow (just like Malediction) increasing all dmg done (by the raid) to the target by 3% when Slow is up, tuning it to have a similar effect like scorch.
However this wouldn't make sense, to have Totw earlier in the talent tree than Slow, if it was to affect slow only.

Which leads me to think that Totw is simply a talent affecting the player only, targeting slowed targets and therefore having no effect on the raid dps.

Either way, the wording is confusing at the very least and a clarification would be very nice



PS: Wheres our new lvl 80 spell? Since shattered barrier was fused into the frost tree, there's still no news of our new lvl 80 spell.

The higher spell damage coefficient of fireball will cause them to scale differently with gear as well, with fireball in the long run improving better as spellpower increases than frostfire.

Whether gear will boost high enough to make the coefficent win I can't say, but the trend should be that at 80, frostfire relative to fireball will degrade slowly as gear improves.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression this would give:
(150 + 25 + 50) * 1.03 * 1.06 * 1.4 = 343.917% crit
CSD and EO as far as I know apply on the entire pre-crit value, not just the crit bonus damage.

Also, I'd like to point out that while I enjoy the numbers, I can't stop but notice a big loophole. Which spec assume winter's chill and which spec doesn't ? I realise that having a deep frost mage is better than having a 0/30/41 for the express purpose of WC stacking (1- for faster WC stacking, 2- for the mana regen). The dps between both spec is similar too.

However, since I do not see EJ raiding with more than 2 mages in the future, and even if we did, I better plan for 2, what is more relevant to me is dps comparisons including explicit information about which spec has WC counted-in. You did for scorch, but not WC.

If I were to compare the specs, I'd much rather compare 0/30/41 with WC (his own) vs 0/50/21 without WC. Since WC will help warlocks I have a hard time to give much credence to a pure fire spec. Truth is, I don't think we can discredit the impact of WC on warlocks, at the cost of personal dps.


--- edit
Also, while a more minor detail. I think you should include a 'real' arcane blast spam spec. One dedicated purely to the cause. I'm thinking here 51/20/0. 3/3 master of elements a must, for DPM concerns. Maybe with that spec we can just about permanently keep AB spam a reality ?

Actually the ability to proc impact off of arcane explosion is a pretty big deal for fire, speaking as a fire mage that uses impact. I even appreciate frost lance...if I'm chasing somebody and he's out of arcane explosion range, it's ice lance that I'm using. Proccing a stun, I can plant and hit him with something bigger, or run up and get him into AE range.

Pardon my ignorance, but what are m/r values?

It works like so:

1.5 * 1.03 * 1.06 = 1.6377 (this is CSD and EO affecting the entire pre-crit value)
1.6377 - 1 = 0.6377 (removing non-crit damage gives the new crit damage bonus, which is what Ice Shards and Burnout apply to)
0.6377 (base crit damage bonus) + 0.6377 (ice shards) + 0.5 * 0.6377 (Burnout) = 1.59425 (this is your new crit damage bonus)
1.59425 + 1 = 2.59425 (adding the base non-crit damage back into the total)
2.59425 * 1.4 (Ignite) = 3.63195 = 363.195% crit

Seems bizarre, but it does work that way. For a simpler example, here's a modern-day Frost Mage with a CSD:

1.5 * 1.03 = 1.545
1.545 - 1 = 0.545
0.545 + 0.545 = 1.09
1.09 + 1 = 2.09 = 209% crits (which is indeed what we see with Ice Shards + CSD)

What he said.

FFB presumably has a 3.0/3.5 coefficient, where improved fireball has a 1.15 coefficient.

.857 < 1.15 so presumably spell damage adds more for fireball than frostfire bolt

Hm...ok, that's too simplistic, because you multiply crits by the coefficient as well as the base damage.

If FFB crits bigger and more often by a sufficient amount than just fireball, then the coefficient
considering crit will be larger than fireball. Same goes for winters chill I guess.

It's important to note that when Muphrid talks about two spells scaling equally with +damage, he's referring to how much they scale as a percentage of their naked DPS, not how much they scale in terms of actual DPS itself. In other words, if Spell A goes from 100 DPS to 200 DPS, while Spell B goes from 200 DPS to 400 DPS, they both scaled by the same percentage (100%), even though the DPS gap between the two of them doubled. While I understand where Muphrid's coming from on his view of scaling, it isn't the way most people look at it (as far as most people are concerned, Spell B scales considerably better than Spell A). So it's worth clarifying, I think.

Arcane looks like it has tons of potential but I really don't like how they pigeon hole you into using non arcane nukes. My vision of arcane would be using Abar/Ablast/MBAM cycles for extremely high dpm(1stack Ablast) then using arcane blast spam during heroism and trinkets.

I have no idea why people think that blizzard should raise the debuff of arcane blast because as it stands right now it is a main nuke AND a mana dump. It is really too bad that the last calculator update and the Abar nerf really destroyed the possibility of using 1 stack Ablast as a filler; now we have to go and spend at least 15 points in other trees making arcane feel very bloated and preventing you from taking what I think are the fun talents that make arcane a cool tree(that shaman crit talent in 20 resto comes to mind here).

What they really need to do is buff Abar and Ablast synergy or at least put Ablast back on arcane barrage so that it can be used as a filler instead of the other spells. Like Lhivera said it would be awesome for arcane to have focus mind and slow switched with also having focus mind buffed exponentially. My suggestion would be for all arcane spells to recharge the spells charges by 2-3 with every hit making it almost sustainable indefinably unless you are forced to stop casting while others cast. With this even if arcane get nerfed in dps the raid would still really want an arcane specced mage. Also PLEASE don't make us cast slow every 15 seconds, it would be hell.

People with always spam Ablast as long as Ablast is the highest dps you can get with arcane. I would really like to avoid forcing people to use the same nuke the entire fight.(its boring) What I propose it a debuff of you that adds 2-4% extra mana cost every time you cast arcane blast and have that debuff removed by arcane barrage. This allows arcane blast to be a mana dump but makes it so that you wont be pigeon-holed into casting arcane blast while making arcane more interactive.

Improved arcane missiles now has very little worth to the average mage. It either has to be baseline, merged with some other spell such as Arcane empowerment or it has to effect all arcane spells.

What I really want is our level 80 spell to be is either A) telekinesis but with a better name
B) A highly interactive and high dps AoE spell that all specs can
use effectively.

In conclusion: I spec arcane to be able to cast arcane spells not to be forced to use spells from other trees and to actually think about what I cast. I really would love if arcane becomes what I think it should become.

Well that would sure change Roywyn' numbers quite significantly. His crit multiplier did felt low compared to what I'm used to see.

I sort-of posted about this before, but 51/9/11 is absolutely ridiculous DPS by my calculations. By alternating casts of Arcane Barrage and Frostfire Bolt, and casting Arcane Missiles whenever you get a Missile Barrage proc, you seriously get to cheat on a lot of mechanics. Remember, the three spells you're casting are:

- A 3-sec cast spell with a 86% coefficient and 330% crit damage.
- A 1.5-sec cast spell with a 86% coefficient and 200% crit damage.
- A 2.5-sec cast spell with a 188% coefficient and 200% crit damage.