The guy is nude, except T6 head, bracers and unknown shoulders and from what i can tell he's lvl 80 and has all talents.
I did some napkin math to see which talents affect the damage of Frostfire Bolt.
It doesn't really prove anything, it's more a confirmation of known facts.
Please Note: There are a few unknown factors involved and to be honest... my TC sucks, so i'm not sure if my math is correct.
Unknown Factors:
-Trinkets and other non-visible equip.
-Does he really have all talents ?
-Spell damage & stats of the shoulders.
-Something obvious i missed...
Frostfire Bolt 722 to 838 damage, 3 sec casttime
-> 780 avg. Dam
81.43% spell damage coefficient (snare effect).
Bonus spell damage:
Mind Mastery:
int/0,25
int=184 (Lvl 80 + AM, assumption) + 14 + 28 + 25 ( Equip, i assume 25 int for the shoulders) = 251 int
227/0,25=56,75
780+173,99 = 953,99
x1,03 Playing with Fire
x1,1 Fire Power
x1,06 Piercing Ice
= 1145 avg Damage
->The average Frostfire Bolt hit for our guy should be around 1145 Damage if FroFi (i really like that acronym) is affected by the talents mentioned above.
Frostfire Bolt hits:
1207
1188
1183
1140
1130
1156
1181
1132
1157
? ~1163,7 avg. damage
That's pretty close to the predicted avg. damage of 1145.
Conclusion:
Takeing into account that a few unknown factors are involved, i'd say we can be reasonably certain that Playing with Fire, Fire Power and Piercing Ice affect Frostfire Bolt.
No big surprise.
€dit:
Spelling and grammar... ah well they suck anyway...
€dit2:
I assumed 160int for a lvl 80 Mage with Arcane Mind (too low) & found a minor error in my calculation.
Spell 51054
Name: Amplify Magic
Description: Amplifies magic used against the targeted party member, increasing damage taken from spells by up to 1000 and healing spells by up to 2000. Lasts $d.
Description2: Increases magic damage taken by up to 1000 and healing by up to 2000.
---
The older version of Amplify Magic is still in the spell database. Good luck trying to figure out if it's intentional, a red herring to mess up people who are parsing alpha clients, or a complete reworking of the buff/healing framework in WoW.
Well, the current situation of Amp Magic is that there's virtually no situation ever when the extra healing doesn't outweigh the extra damage taken, if there's even any extra damage taken at all. 1000/2000 seems outlandishly high, but I suppose it could be a change in philosophy that if you want to use Amp, there will be repercussions.
If that's for real, they need to make a group buff version of it, or we are going to be in the same wonderful place paladins were before greater blessings.
If that's for real, they need to make a group buff version of it, or we are going to be in the same wonderful place paladins were before greater blessings.
We already were buffing everyone on Brut with amp. Urgh.
Thankfully, no one noticed when I switched to just buffing the tanks.
Originally Posted by Jarlyn
Well, the current situation of Amp Magic is that there's virtually no situation ever when the extra healing doesn't outweigh the extra damage taken
Many boss abilities don't gain benefit from Amplify Magic or Dampen Magic either, so it amounts to simply free healing in a lot of cases.
I'll presume that those numbers for Amp are either a testing version or are being parsed improperly from the client. If not, it will most certainly be not only used but the improved version would offer such a huge benefit to healing as to be absurd. Amp Magic is already one of our very best tools; it is just a shame that it is so annoying to apply and is poorly understood by many raid leaders. Well, that and it offers no stackable benefits past the first Mage in a raid of course.
I wouldn't worry about it yet. First, there's a decent chance they haven't tuned the coefficient yet. Second, even if they have, he was using rank 1 (the level 60 version), which means it was using lower base damage, and probably a reduced coefficient due to the level difference.
I wouldn't worry about it yet. First, there's a decent chance they haven't tuned the coefficient yet. Second, even if they have, he was using rank 1 (the level 60 version), which means it was using lower base damage, and probably a reduced coefficient due to the level difference.
I wish the video contained it being used on something that would have lived until the explosion. I'd assume its capable of critting but it would be nice to see it being shown. That, and also seeing it in a capped environment, if either the ticks or the end kaboom are capped. If the ticks were uncapped and the kaboom capped (like Flamestrike currently) that would be very interesting to see.
Edit: Strike that, I spaced out and somehow didn't notice the multiple recasts. Don't mind me. I maintain the capped interest though.
Last edited by Zaldinar : 06/03/08 at 2:05 AM.
To truly model the game, we first must research it. http://zaldinar.wordpress.com/
Proven TheoryCrafting Stuff, chain casting in a PTR near you soon.
I coded up a Winter's Grasp uptime simulator. I've made the following assumptions:
-10% chance to apply debuff
-5 second debuff duration
-.5 second frostbolt flight time
-.1 second latency
-All mages in the raid have the same haste (not accurate, but the data set gets way to big with every combination of haste)
I simulate 20 hours of casting for every uptime value. At 30k-60k casts per mage I'm getting results consistent to a 10th of a percent. I've randomized each mage's position in the initial cast sequence. I've also added 2,4,6 haste to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th mages such that their relative cast positions in the sequence change over time.
Some interesting data points:
-At ~700 haste and again at ~1500 haste uptime spikes big time. (Heroism + IV + Skull + 300 PasHaste = ~1600 haste)
-Other than that, haste does not appear to increase WG uptime much. (Crazy!! Totally thought uptime would it scale linearly with haste.)
-The small spikes are not noise. Most prominently with 2, 3, and 4 mages there is a ~3% uptime spike at 550 haste.
A few conclusions:
1. Cooldown stacking should be coordinated across all WG-stacking and shatter specced mages to take advantage of increased WG uptime.
2. mages w/ ~300 passive haste add:
3. Outside of cooldown stacking and as currently implemented we're looking at ~50% uptime with 3 mages which constitutes a 25% crit chance buff to shatter specced mages. That plus WC and normal crit = ~70% crit. [Ashtongue Talisman of Insight] is looking pretty good at that point.
4. Not obvious from the data because I tuned the sample set to avoid repeated simultaneous casts, but staggered casts boost uptime by around 10% @ 2 mages over consistently simultaneous casts.
This raises a few questions.
1. When the WotLK talent trees are released, at what point is an elemental mage chucking fireballs with shatter worth more dmg than another WG stacking deep frost mage? Free ignite ticks anyone?
2. What is causing the spikes at 400 and 550 haste for 2,3, and 4 mages?
[Ashtongue Talisman of Insight] might once again be an interesting trinket for arcanists in combination with netherwind procs, assuming AM works on a per missile basis.
The late and lamented AM spam build has life in in yet?
First I just wanted to point out the obvious - that the final tick does damage twice. Once for the 'DoT' component and once for the 'explosion'. I had initially assumed the final explosion would be a single event, but I guess its not.
Now since LB can apparently proc impact on any damage (as expected) that means six extra chances every ten seconds. That's pretty damn good in PvP. Combined with molten armor and regular fire spells, impact should be a virtual certainty. The question then becomes weather or not the mana cost would justify using it versus a single opponent.
In that same vein of thought, since you appear to be fully functional while LB ticks away, I wonder if the cost in terms of damage lost due to GCD and Mana would be worth turning it on during Molten Fury range. Possibly factor running time too, since mages don't usually stand ~10y from raid bosses... in any case, had that mage been using LB versus a mob with Imp Scorch, CoE and MFury factored in we would have seen (149*5 + 178)*1.15*1.1*1.2= 1401 damage or an extra 140 DPS. Using a level 60 spell. At 70 and 80 with higher ranks and no downranking penalties, that number is sure to be higher. My only concession is that a private server character is likely to have all talents maxed out, and who knows how badly that would skew the results?
As for the damage coefficient itself, it seems to be split evenly between all six ticks. 149 damage was the norm, with 178 for the final explosion (178-(56-28)=150, so the coeff is applied evenly). More importantly however, is how will the damage coeff likely be calculated? Going by DoT rules of Duration/15sec and then factoring 1/2 for AoE thats a 33% coeff... slighly better than flamestrike and second (distant second) only to Blizzard.
Did I screw anything up? Or could LB actually be a useful supplementary skill for Fire mages of all stripes?
As for the damage coefficient itself, it seems to be split evenly between all six ticks. 149 damage was the norm, with 178 for the final explosion (178-(56-28)=150, so the coeff is applied evenly). More importantly however, is how will the damage coeff likely be calculated? Going by DoT rules of Duration/15sec and then factoring 1/2 for AoE thats a 33% coeff... slighly better than flamestrike and second (distant second) only to Blizzard.
Did I screw anything up? Or could LB actually be a useful supplementary skill for Fire mages of all stripes?
Well, typically, a combined DOT/DD spell has its coefficient split like so:
(Duration / 15) / ((Duration / 15) + (Cast Time of Spell / 3.5)) = Portion to Over Time
1 - Portion to Over Time = Portion to DD
Then, each of the two portions is modified as usual for duration and cast time and other effects. So we would get:
(10 / 15) / ((10 / 15) + (1.5 / 3.5)) = 0.6087 to DOT
1 - 0.6087 = 0.3913 to Direct Damage
In fact, the DOT component of SoC gets 150%, and the DD/AOE component gets 22% (ish). So it's reasonable to hope that Living Bomb will get a similarly customized coefficient. If it were to receive the same increase as SoC does, we could expect something like:
DOT: 0.3744 (+105 per tick)
DD: 0.2002 (+280 on the explosion)
But of course it could be something completely different.
The DOT component gets 150%, and the DD/AOE component gets 22%.
The guy is nude, except T6 head, bracers and unknown shoulders and from what i can tell he's lvl 80 and has all talents.
I wouldn't use that video (or any of my other ones) for any calculations at all, personally. They were mainly made because people were interested in the animations of the spells.
I was wearing full T6, though it didn't matter because the bolt did the same damage no matter what my +damage was. And just throwing in the new spells completely broke all passive talents for some reason.
In that same vein of thought, since you appear to be fully functional while LB ticks away, I wonder if the cost in terms of damage lost due to GCD and Mana would be worth turning it on during Molten Fury range. Possibly factor running time too, since mages don't usually stand ~10y from raid bosses...
Did I screw anything up? Or could LB actually be a useful supplementary skill for Fire mages of all stripes?
Err, I think running into 10 yards of boss during Molten fury would be a bad idea. Just the reduction of your threat threshold from 130% to 100% is going to more than erase any advantage you have and probably get you killed messily by the boss, especially since you are doing more damage during this time. Worse if you end up wiping the raid with the boss at <20% because you got aggro.
And if you kept yourself under the 100% threat threshold, then your damage won't be all the great anyway.
06/02/08, 2:33 PM
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