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06/13/08, 10:13 AM
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#1101
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Now with Karate Grip! (TM)
Orc Death Knight
Frostwhisper (EU)
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I'd half-written about how Locks are shaping-up to be Fire, how SP's regenerative powers are a non-issue in the argument for CoS/CoE, plenty of blah, but then again, who cares?
the CoS/CoE union. About bloody time. And there was much rejoicing...
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06/13/08, 10:33 AM
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#1102
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Glass Joe
Undead Death Knight
Moonglade (EU)
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A shame it doesn't include Nature still, though.
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06/13/08, 10:39 AM
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#1103
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Now with Karate Grip! (TM)
Orc Death Knight
Frostwhisper (EU)
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Nature gets love from new Stormstrike, which now includes twice as many charges, cooldown reduced from 10 to 8sec and a new spell that seems like a good reason for Enh Shamans to drop Eshock entirely, by rotating Lava/Flame shocks in order to force crits which in turn procs devastation, which is earlier in the tree blahblahblahblah
TLDR: Nature gets love. It's just not from Locks.
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06/13/08, 11:05 AM
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#1104
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Glass Joe
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Don't forget that balance druids also get Natures Fury:
Your Wrath and Starfire spells have a 20/40/60/80/100% chance of applying the Natures Fury debuff on the target. The Natures Fury debuff increases nature and arcane damage done to the target by 2%. Lasts 12 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.
(This is from War Pirate War Pirate :: Talent tree Druid)
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06/13/08, 11:33 AM
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#1105
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Deeper Shade of Blue
Rouncer
Orc Shaman
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Nj21
Don't forget that balance druids also get Natures Fury:
Your Wrath and Starfire spells have a 20/40/60/80/100% chance of applying the Natures Fury debuff on the target. The Natures Fury debuff increases nature and arcane damage done to the target by 2%. Lasts 12 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.
(This is from War Pirate War Pirate :: Talent tree Druid)
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So that puts Nature at 26% boost with that + stormstrike, Fire is 25%, Shadow is 25% and Frost is 10% + 10% increased crit rate for the current classes. Not sure what schools the DK will be buffing or if it will be eating stormstrike charges.
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06/13/08, 11:36 AM
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#1106
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Mage
Illidan (EU)
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Originally Posted by Rounced
So that puts Nature at 26% boost with that + stormstrike, Fire is 25%, Shadow is 25% and Frost is 10% + 10% increased crit rate for the current classes. Not sure what schools the DK will be buffing or if it will be eating stormstrike charges.
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(Talent:Frost) Imbue your rune weapon with frost, causing 4.23376623377 to 13.04 additional frost damage, based on the speed of the weapon. Also has a chance to cause your target to be vulnerable to Frost damage. Lasts 10 minutes.
Maybe it will add the 5% Frost is missing.
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06/13/08, 11:57 AM
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#1107
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Mage
Moon Guard
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Spirit Link I don't get; the amount is simply pathetic. The only thing I can think of is an anti-polymorph mechanic in 3v3, but even so it's mostly polymorph-specific. Unless 2200 is the base amount, per player. Or something.
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Probably balanced for level 60 HP pools, since it's available at 60. 2200 is probably half of what the average class has at 60, but I doubt it'll absorb up to 50% of 80 HP pools.
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the CoS/CoE union. About bloody time. And there was much rejoicing...
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Hawhut? Is this a new spell? I scanned my stuff and didn't see anything on it.
Also, I managed to snag a cached copy of the druzya talent calc, but I'm missing assets for the talent icons and background, so it's mostly black: http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/16/talentcalckc7.jpg
I'll file front it if anyone wants it, since I don't think Google caught a cache of it (not when I searched, at least).
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06/13/08, 11:57 AM
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#1108
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by Rounced
So that puts Nature at 26% boost with that + stormstrike, Fire is 25%, Shadow is 25% and Frost is 10% + 10% increased crit rate for the current classes. Not sure what schools the DK will be buffing or if it will be eating stormstrike charges.
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I have no idea what kind of uptime can be expected with Stormstrike, but remember all these are multiplicative.
Debuffs
Arcane: 1.1 (CoS) * 1.05 (Misery) * 1.06 (Nature's Fury) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 16.18%
Fire: 1.1 (CoE) * 1.15 (Scorch) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 26.05%
Frost: 1.1 (CoE) * 1.05 (Misery) = 15.5% (see below)
Nature: 1.2 (Stormstrike 100% uptime?) * 1.06 (Nature's Fury) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 26.75%
Shadow: 1.1125 (ISB 75% uptime?) * 1.1 (CoS) * 1.1 (Weaving) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 34.13%
Frost also gets +10% crit from winter's chill, something in the area of +11% crit from Winter's Grasp, and an unknown modifier of some kind from Frozen Rune Weapon.
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06/13/08, 12:30 PM
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#1109
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Soda Popinski
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FWIW, Frostbolt is rumored to have a level-based penalty. That would likely give the same 'partial resist' penalty.
Also, if I recall properly, Nature's Fury is 18%, its 6% per debuff, stacks 3 times.
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<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff
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06/13/08, 12:48 PM
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#1110
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Silvermoon (EU)
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Also, if I recall properly, Nature's Fury is 18%, its 6% per debuff, stacks 3 times.
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Apparently that was a glitch in one version of the tree, the author had misread the spell info. In the last revision, it was again a 2% increase, stacking three times.
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06/13/08, 12:51 PM
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#1111
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Now with Karate Grip! (TM)
Orc Death Knight
Frostwhisper (EU)
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Originally Posted by Lurker
Probably balanced for level 60 HP pools, since it's available at 60. 2200 is probably half of what the average class has at 60, but I doubt it'll absorb up to 50% of 80 HP pools.
Hawhut? Is this a new spell? I scanned my stuff and didn't see anything on it.
Also, I managed to snag a cached copy of the druzya talent calc, but I'm missing assets for the talent icons and background, so it's mostly black: http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/16/talentcalckc7.jpg
I'll file front it if anyone wants it, since I don't think Google caught a cache of it (not when I searched, at least).
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2200 for a lvl 60 pool seems excellent; that makes much more sense.
As for CoE/CoS, I'll refer you to the post above mine:
Originally Posted by Maledict
The new rank of Curse of Elements also affects Shadow and Arcane resists & damage in the alpha apparently, so there's that issue gone.
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06/13/08, 12:57 PM
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#1112
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Bald Bull
Undead Mage
Bloodhoof (EU)
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Just to add, from the main forums - it's not just the new rank. Curse of Shadows has been removed from the game, and it's been merged with Curse of Elements at all levels. huzzah!
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06/13/08, 1:49 PM
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#1113
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Bald Bull
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2200 could also be damage to the linked target, making it effectively 4400, and I expect it to be modified by spellpower.
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06/13/08, 2:02 PM
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#1114
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D:
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Originally Posted by Maledict
Just to add, from the main forums - it's not just the new rank. Curse of Shadows has been removed from the game, and it's been merged with Curse of Elements at all levels. huzzah!
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Thank. God.
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06/13/08, 3:03 PM
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#1115
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Piston Honda
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Thank you, Blizzard. Now, since you're in a generous mood...about that group buff version of amp magic...?
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06/13/08, 3:40 PM
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#1116
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by manly
FWIW, Frostbolt is rumored to have a level-based penalty. That would likely give the same 'partial resist' penalty.
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Any idea what kind of penalty? A flat damage reduction, or an increased miss rate?
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06/13/08, 4:11 PM
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#1117
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Bald Bull
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Don't all spells have a downranking penalty, or just heals?
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06/13/08, 4:17 PM
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#1118
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by PSGarak
Don't all spells have a downranking penalty, or just heals?
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He's not talking about a downranking penalty. He's talking about the fact that every school except Frost (technically even Frost, but not Frostbolt due to being binary) loses ~5.1% damage due to the 24 nonpenetrable resistance on level 73 bosses. Technically, Frostbolt should experience a 5.1% increased miss rate so it suffers equal mitigation, but it doesn't. This is a significant factor in Frost's ability to outperform most people's expectations.
If they're deliberately coding a substitute mechanic to ensure that Frost suffers the same sort of mitigation as the other schools, the question is how they're going to implement it. Have they worked out a way to give binary schools partial resists? If not, then it pretty much has to come down to a flat percentage decrease on the damage dealt, or they've fixed the hit/miss system so that it actually suffers the intended extra misses. In the latter case, however, we'd have to ask whether a Frost mage can stack extra hit rating to compensate.
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06/13/08, 4:18 PM
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#1119
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Soda Popinski
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As in a > 1% miss rate while hit capped.
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<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff
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06/13/08, 4:22 PM
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#1120
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by manly
As in a > 1% miss rate while hit capped.
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Any effect from exceeding hit cap?
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06/13/08, 4:36 PM
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#1121
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Soda Popinski
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See, this is the annoying part about rumors. You can't really have a 2 way communication with them.
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<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff
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06/13/08, 4:39 PM
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#1122
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by manly
See, this is the annoying part about rumors. You can't really have a 2 way communication with them.
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Gotcha, I was thinking you were in touch with someone who'd actually been doing the testing. Nevermind, then, we shall know when we know.
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06/13/08, 6:18 PM
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#1123
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by manly
See, this is the annoying part about rumors. You can't really have a 2 way communication with them.
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Thanks man, I needed that. Haven't laughed that loud all week.
That said, Lhivera, the merger of CoE and CoS makes it extremely likely that there will be one Affliction Curse-bot in top-end raids, putting Maledection into force for all 4 affected elements. I think this needs to be taken into account for the numbers you have going. Thus (copy-pasted and modified from there):
Arcane: 1.13 (CoE) * 1.05 (Misery) * 1.06 (Nature's Fury) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 19.35%
Fire: 1.13 (CoE) * 1.15 (Scorch) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 29.49%
Frost: 1.13 (CoE) * 1.05 (Misery) = 18.65% (I have a note below, as well)
Nature: 1.2 (Stormstrike 100% uptime?) * 1.06 (Nature's Fury) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 26.75%
Shadow: 1.1125 (ISB 75% uptime?) * 1.13 (CoE) * 1.1 (Weaving) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 37.79% (!)
Assuming that DKs give a 5% vulnerability debuff, this comes ~24.58%, which is in line with the others (if a shade lower, made up by crit bonuses). If they code in an insurmountable way for Frostbolt to be subject to partial resists, then DKs might end up doing a 10% amp. The result of this comes to ~23.34%, also reasonable for the same reasons. assuming 10% and no partials, it's ~29.96%
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To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.
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06/13/08, 6:45 PM
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#1124
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Glass Joe
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Arcane/frost
Any ideas how an AM/Shatter mage will do with all five missiles shattering on a frozen target?
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06/13/08, 7:01 PM
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#1125
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Soda Popinski
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Originally Posted by bynop
Any ideas how an AM/Shatter mage will do with all five missiles shattering on a frozen target?
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Unfortunately, the way you expect them to. Every bolt individually calculates its crit upon finishing its individual cast. The exception to this is clearcasting. However, in this given scenarios, there is nothing that would lead me to believe a possible 'finish with AM on the last second shatter is up' (or whatever the name of the talent is/proc).
Actually, you could test it right now. Spec shatter. Frostnova a mob. Then cast arcane missiles. If the 'trick' you're trying to pull off works, then all 5 bolts should have +50% crit. I am fairly confident it won't.
If anything, even assuming the 'trick' doesn't work, and that you asked a very very straightforward 'how about just AM spam with shatter, using another mage to proc shatter', well, I wouldn't expect much. Fact is, arcane still has 175% crit multiplier, which is still universally bad no matter how I try and put it. I would personally more bank on either barrage/frostbolt being your 'main nuke', then fireball on NP proc, and when you have excessive mana, your 'dump mana' rotation would be barrage/blast/blast fireball on NP.
Last edited by manly : 06/13/08 at 7:06 PM.
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<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff
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