Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06/13/08, 10:13 AM   #1101
Pintofbrew
Now with Karate Grip! (TM)
 
Pintofbrew's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
I'd half-written about how Locks are shaping-up to be Fire, how SP's regenerative powers are a non-issue in the argument for CoS/CoE, plenty of blah, but then again, who cares?

the CoS/CoE union. About bloody time. And there was much rejoicing...

Greece Offline
Old 06/13/08, 10:33 AM   #1102
Jynxa
Glass Joe
 
Jynxa's Avatar
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Moonglade (EU)
A shame it doesn't include Nature still, though.

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 10:39 AM   #1103
Pintofbrew
Now with Karate Grip! (TM)
 
Pintofbrew's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
Nature gets love from new Stormstrike, which now includes twice as many charges, cooldown reduced from 10 to 8sec and a new spell that seems like a good reason for Enh Shamans to drop Eshock entirely, by rotating Lava/Flame shocks in order to force crits which in turn procs devastation, which is earlier in the tree blahblahblahblah

TLDR: Nature gets love. It's just not from Locks.

Greece Offline
Old 06/13/08, 11:05 AM   #1104
Nj21
Glass Joe
 
Nj21's Avatar
 
Undead Rogue
 
Perenolde
Don't forget that balance druids also get Natures Fury:

Your Wrath and Starfire spells have a 20/40/60/80/100% chance of applying the Natures Fury debuff on the target. The Natures Fury debuff increases nature and arcane damage done to the target by 2%. Lasts 12 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.

(This is from War Pirate War Pirate :: Talent tree Druid)

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 11:33 AM   #1105
Rouncer
Deeper Shade of Blue
 
Rouncer's Avatar
 
Rouncer
Orc Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Nj21 View Post
Don't forget that balance druids also get Natures Fury:

Your Wrath and Starfire spells have a 20/40/60/80/100% chance of applying the Natures Fury debuff on the target. The Natures Fury debuff increases nature and arcane damage done to the target by 2%. Lasts 12 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.

(This is from War Pirate War Pirate :: Talent tree Druid)

So that puts Nature at 26% boost with that + stormstrike, Fire is 25%, Shadow is 25% and Frost is 10% + 10% increased crit rate for the current classes. Not sure what schools the DK will be buffing or if it will be eating stormstrike charges.

Online
Old 06/13/08, 11:36 AM   #1106
Lileith
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Mage
 
Illidan (EU)
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
So that puts Nature at 26% boost with that + stormstrike, Fire is 25%, Shadow is 25% and Frost is 10% + 10% increased crit rate for the current classes. Not sure what schools the DK will be buffing or if it will be eating stormstrike charges.
(Talent:Frost) Imbue your rune weapon with frost, causing 4.23376623377 to 13.04 additional frost damage, based on the speed of the weapon. Also has a chance to cause your target to be vulnerable to Frost damage. Lasts 10 minutes.

Maybe it will add the 5% Frost is missing.

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 11:57 AM   #1107
Lurker
Von Kaiser
 
Lurker's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Moon Guard
Spirit Link I don't get; the amount is simply pathetic. The only thing I can think of is an anti-polymorph mechanic in 3v3, but even so it's mostly polymorph-specific. Unless 2200 is the base amount, per player. Or something.
Probably balanced for level 60 HP pools, since it's available at 60. 2200 is probably half of what the average class has at 60, but I doubt it'll absorb up to 50% of 80 HP pools.

the CoS/CoE union. About bloody time. And there was much rejoicing...
Hawhut? Is this a new spell? I scanned my stuff and didn't see anything on it.

Also, I managed to snag a cached copy of the druzya talent calc, but I'm missing assets for the talent icons and background, so it's mostly black: http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/16/talentcalckc7.jpg
I'll file front it if anyone wants it, since I don't think Google caught a cache of it (not when I searched, at least).

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 11:57 AM   #1108
Lhivera
Bald Bull
 
Lhivera's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by Rounced View Post
So that puts Nature at 26% boost with that + stormstrike, Fire is 25%, Shadow is 25% and Frost is 10% + 10% increased crit rate for the current classes. Not sure what schools the DK will be buffing or if it will be eating stormstrike charges.
I have no idea what kind of uptime can be expected with Stormstrike, but remember all these are multiplicative.

Debuffs
Arcane: 1.1 (CoS) * 1.05 (Misery) * 1.06 (Nature's Fury) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 16.18%
Fire: 1.1 (CoE) * 1.15 (Scorch) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 26.05%
Frost: 1.1 (CoE) * 1.05 (Misery) = 15.5% (see below)
Nature: 1.2 (Stormstrike 100% uptime?) * 1.06 (Nature's Fury) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 26.75%
Shadow: 1.1125 (ISB 75% uptime?) * 1.1 (CoS) * 1.1 (Weaving) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 34.13%

Frost also gets +10% crit from winter's chill, something in the area of +11% crit from Winter's Grasp, and an unknown modifier of some kind from Frozen Rune Weapon.

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 12:30 PM   #1109
manly
Soda Popinski
 
manly's Avatar
 
Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
FWIW, Frostbolt is rumored to have a level-based penalty. That would likely give the same 'partial resist' penalty.
Also, if I recall properly, Nature's Fury is 18%, its 6% per debuff, stacks 3 times.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

Canada Offline
Old 06/13/08, 12:48 PM   #1110
Munorion
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Also, if I recall properly, Nature's Fury is 18%, its 6% per debuff, stacks 3 times.
Apparently that was a glitch in one version of the tree, the author had misread the spell info. In the last revision, it was again a 2% increase, stacking three times.

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 12:51 PM   #1111
Pintofbrew
Now with Karate Grip! (TM)
 
Pintofbrew's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
Originally Posted by Lurker View Post
Probably balanced for level 60 HP pools, since it's available at 60. 2200 is probably half of what the average class has at 60, but I doubt it'll absorb up to 50% of 80 HP pools.



Hawhut? Is this a new spell? I scanned my stuff and didn't see anything on it.

Also, I managed to snag a cached copy of the druzya talent calc, but I'm missing assets for the talent icons and background, so it's mostly black: http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/16/talentcalckc7.jpg
I'll file front it if anyone wants it, since I don't think Google caught a cache of it (not when I searched, at least).
2200 for a lvl 60 pool seems excellent; that makes much more sense.

As for CoE/CoS, I'll refer you to the post above mine:

Originally Posted by Maledict View Post
The new rank of Curse of Elements also affects Shadow and Arcane resists & damage in the alpha apparently, so there's that issue gone.

Greece Offline
Old 06/13/08, 12:57 PM   #1112
Maledict
Bald Bull
 
Maledict's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Bloodhoof (EU)
Just to add, from the main forums - it's not just the new rank. Curse of Shadows has been removed from the game, and it's been merged with Curse of Elements at all levels. huzzah!

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 1:49 PM   #1113
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
PSGarak's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
2200 could also be damage to the linked target, making it effectively 4400, and I expect it to be modified by spellpower.


Offline
Old 06/13/08, 2:02 PM   #1114
Koosha
D:
 
Undead Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Maledict View Post
Just to add, from the main forums - it's not just the new rank. Curse of Shadows has been removed from the game, and it's been merged with Curse of Elements at all levels. huzzah!
Thank. God.

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 3:03 PM   #1115
Deedre
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Turalyon
Thank you, Blizzard. Now, since you're in a generous mood...about that group buff version of amp magic...?

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 3:40 PM   #1116
Lhivera
Bald Bull
 
Lhivera's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by manly View Post
FWIW, Frostbolt is rumored to have a level-based penalty. That would likely give the same 'partial resist' penalty.
Any idea what kind of penalty? A flat damage reduction, or an increased miss rate?

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 4:11 PM   #1117
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
PSGarak's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
Don't all spells have a downranking penalty, or just heals?


Offline
Old 06/13/08, 4:17 PM   #1118
Lhivera
Bald Bull
 
Lhivera's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by PSGarak View Post
Don't all spells have a downranking penalty, or just heals?
He's not talking about a downranking penalty. He's talking about the fact that every school except Frost (technically even Frost, but not Frostbolt due to being binary) loses ~5.1% damage due to the 24 nonpenetrable resistance on level 73 bosses. Technically, Frostbolt should experience a 5.1% increased miss rate so it suffers equal mitigation, but it doesn't. This is a significant factor in Frost's ability to outperform most people's expectations.

If they're deliberately coding a substitute mechanic to ensure that Frost suffers the same sort of mitigation as the other schools, the question is how they're going to implement it. Have they worked out a way to give binary schools partial resists? If not, then it pretty much has to come down to a flat percentage decrease on the damage dealt, or they've fixed the hit/miss system so that it actually suffers the intended extra misses. In the latter case, however, we'd have to ask whether a Frost mage can stack extra hit rating to compensate.

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 4:18 PM   #1119
manly
Soda Popinski
 
manly's Avatar
 
Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
As in a > 1% miss rate while hit capped.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

Canada Offline
Old 06/13/08, 4:22 PM   #1120
Lhivera
Bald Bull
 
Lhivera's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by manly View Post
As in a > 1% miss rate while hit capped.
Any effect from exceeding hit cap?

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 4:36 PM   #1121
manly
Soda Popinski
 
manly's Avatar
 
Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
See, this is the annoying part about rumors. You can't really have a 2 way communication with them.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

Canada Offline
Old 06/13/08, 4:39 PM   #1122
Lhivera
Bald Bull
 
Lhivera's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by manly View Post
See, this is the annoying part about rumors. You can't really have a 2 way communication with them.
Gotcha, I was thinking you were in touch with someone who'd actually been doing the testing. Nevermind, then, we shall know when we know.

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 6:18 PM   #1123
PsyBomb
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Aerie Peak
Originally Posted by manly View Post
See, this is the annoying part about rumors. You can't really have a 2 way communication with them.
Thanks man, I needed that. Haven't laughed that loud all week.

That said, Lhivera, the merger of CoE and CoS makes it extremely likely that there will be one Affliction Curse-bot in top-end raids, putting Maledection into force for all 4 affected elements. I think this needs to be taken into account for the numbers you have going. Thus (copy-pasted and modified from there):

Arcane: 1.13 (CoE) * 1.05 (Misery) * 1.06 (Nature's Fury) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 19.35%
Fire: 1.13 (CoE) * 1.15 (Scorch) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 29.49%
Frost: 1.13 (CoE) * 1.05 (Misery) = 18.65% (I have a note below, as well)
Nature: 1.2 (Stormstrike 100% uptime?) * 1.06 (Nature's Fury) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 26.75%
Shadow: 1.1125 (ISB 75% uptime?) * 1.13 (CoE) * 1.1 (Weaving) * 1.05 (Misery) * 0.949 (partial resists) ~= 37.79% (!)

Assuming that DKs give a 5% vulnerability debuff, this comes ~24.58%, which is in line with the others (if a shade lower, made up by crit bonuses). If they code in an insurmountable way for Frostbolt to be subject to partial resists, then DKs might end up doing a 10% amp. The result of this comes to ~23.34%, also reasonable for the same reasons. assuming 10% and no partials, it's ~29.96%

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 6:45 PM   #1124
bynop
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Aegwynn
Arcane/frost

Any ideas how an AM/Shatter mage will do with all five missiles shattering on a frozen target?

Offline
Old 06/13/08, 7:01 PM   #1125
manly
Soda Popinski
 
manly's Avatar
 
Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by bynop View Post
Any ideas how an AM/Shatter mage will do with all five missiles shattering on a frozen target?
Unfortunately, the way you expect them to. Every bolt individually calculates its crit upon finishing its individual cast. The exception to this is clearcasting. However, in this given scenarios, there is nothing that would lead me to believe a possible 'finish with AM on the last second shatter is up' (or whatever the name of the talent is/proc).

Actually, you could test it right now. Spec shatter. Frostnova a mob. Then cast arcane missiles. If the 'trick' you're trying to pull off works, then all 5 bolts should have +50% crit. I am fairly confident it won't.

If anything, even assuming the 'trick' doesn't work, and that you asked a very very straightforward 'how about just AM spam with shatter, using another mage to proc shatter', well, I wouldn't expect much. Fact is, arcane still has 175% crit multiplier, which is still universally bad no matter how I try and put it. I would personally more bank on either barrage/frostbolt being your 'main nuke', then fireball on NP proc, and when you have excessive mana, your 'dump mana' rotation would be barrage/blast/blast fireball on NP.

Last edited by manly : 06/13/08 at 7:06 PM.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

Canada Offline
 

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WoW 2.0 (pre-BC) talent build discussion Navaash Public Discussion 17 11/06/06 6:57 PM
Mage talent preview ex-Hagakure Public Discussion 456 05/17/06 3:40 PM
Patch 1.10 talent calculator and discussion Lurchington Public Discussion 125 02/27/06 7:01 PM