[Mage] WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion - Page 48

Deedre · 05/31/08, 1:03 PM

Improved moonkin aura nerfed to 20% haste, as widely anticipated here. But I still want a moonkin in my group.

Edit: and invis is now on a 3s countdown.

Lhivera · 05/31/08, 1:16 PM

Deep Freeze now appears to be instant cast:

5/31 15:46:14.892 44572: Deep Freeze ()
5/31 15:46:14.942 5 Mana
5/31 15:46:14.942 30 yd range
5/31 15:46:14.942 Instant cast
5/31 15:46:14.942 30 sec cooldown
5/31 15:46:14.942 Stuns the target for 5 sec. Only usable on Frozen targets.

5 mana? For real, or does the spell database not show % base mana values?

Regardless, as instant cast, it is now easier to use, but you have only 3.5 seconds for action against the target rather than 5 (enough for a combo, though).

dexia · 05/31/08, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Lhivera

Also, ISB debuff has been nerfed again; it now affects only non-periodic damage (it used to work this way, long ago).

I think you might have it backwards...the ticks from DoTs would actually consume it, so they changed it so DoT ticks wouldn't consume it. "Non-periodic" was added like patch 1.9+. Although I do not think talents are in anyway close to their finalized versions, the changes from patch to patch at least illuminate the thought process of the developers. Mages are gaining synergy with Death Knights, shadow priests/lock synergy is being reduced. I wonder if this change is indicative of shadow priest dps being too much to their liking, because I can't see any reason affliction needs a nerf.

Lhivera · 05/31/08, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by dexia

I think you might have it backwards...the ticks from DoTs would actually consume it, so they changed it so DoT ticks wouldn't consume it.

You are correct.

Mages are gaining synergy with Death Knights, shadow priests/lock synergy is being reduced. I wonder if this change is indicative of shadow priest dps being too much to their liking, because I can't see any reason affliction needs a nerf.

Looking at the changes to Shadow Priests, it looks like they're going to be a lot more self-reliant; it seems their damage will be going up, even with the reduction in synergy.

• Chicken · 05/31/08, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lhivera

Deep Freeze now appears to be instant cast:

5/31 15:46:14.892 44572: Deep Freeze ()
5/31 15:46:14.942 5 Mana
5/31 15:46:14.942 30 yd range
5/31 15:46:14.942 Instant cast
5/31 15:46:14.942 30 sec cooldown
5/31 15:46:14.942 Stuns the target for 5 sec. Only usable on Frozen targets.

5 mana? For real, or does the spell database not show % base mana values?

Regardless, as instant cast, it is now easier to use, but you have only 3.5 seconds for action against the target rather than 5 (enough for a combo, though).

If those were taken from my text file on the WotLK thread, the cast times are bugged, and abilities for which the costs scale with your base mana are shown as if you are a level 1 warlock. So keep that in mind.

Lhivera · 05/31/08, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by Chicken

If those were taken from my text file on the WotLK thread, the cast times are bugged, and abilities for which the costs scale with your base mana are shown as if you are a level 1 warlock. So keep that in mind.

Ah, gotcha. So it may be entirely unchanged. Thanks!

PSGarak · 05/31/08, 3:17 PM

On the DK side of the mage-DK synergy, there was a deep-frost talent that was basically AoE-Ice Lance. Everything in 10 yards takes X damage, triple versus frozen. They also have some abilities to freeze targets as well, so it's a two-sided relationship.
On the other hand, they also get the ability to parry spells.

Deltrus · 05/31/08, 4:06 PM

I have some very good news. YouTube - WoW WotLK new mage skills (Frostfire bolt / Arcane Barrage) shows that frostfire bolt does benefit from both fire and frost talent trees!! Imagine a build like War Pirate :: Talent tree Mage
frostfire bolt could get massive crits, trigger both impact and frostbite, get a crazy threat reduction and have very good mana efficiency.
Also from what I saw Abar crit for 3k. I am getting really excited about Wotlk.

Deedre · 05/31/08, 4:26 PM

Thanks for the link, Deltrus.

Arcane barrage must have a ridiculous coefficient. Well in excess of 100%. Very surprising.

Lhivera · 05/31/08, 4:36 PM

Originally Posted by Deedre

Thanks for the link, Deltrus.

Arcane barrage must have a ridiculous coefficient. Well in excess of 100%. Very surprising.

Well, for a 3K crit:

3000 / 1.75 / 1.03 ~= 1665

Subtract top-end damage at rank 3 (which is the rank he quoted in his opening text):

1665 - 1145 = 520

Required +Damage:

520 / (1.5 / 3.5) ~= 1214

Normal instant-cast coefficient and normal level 70 +damage gear is sufficient.

Deedre · 05/31/08, 4:39 PM

I assumed the mage was casting rank1, not rank3. Is the sandbox mode allowing max rank spells?

Lhivera · 05/31/08, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by Deedre

I assumed the mage was casting rank1, not rank3. Is the sandbox mode allowing max rank spells?

Frostfire Bolt isn't even available until level 75, so he's definitely not stuck at rank 1. If he's on the F&F server, he'd be stuck at rank 2, but I suspect he's on a private server with access to all ranks.

Deedre · 05/31/08, 4:52 PM

Ran across another arcane barrage/frostfire bolt vid:

Arcane Barrage WotLK - FileFront.com

Edit: beginning of the video has his spellbook open to what looks like frostfire bolt rank2.

Nota · 05/31/08, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by Deltrus

I have some very good news. YouTube - WoW WotLK new mage skills (Frostfire bolt / Arcane Barrage) shows that frostfire bolt does benefit from both fire and frost talent trees!! Imagine a build like War Pirate :: Talent tree Mage
frostfire bolt could get massive crits, trigger both impact and frostbite, get a crazy threat reduction and have very good mana efficiency.
Also from what I saw Abar crit for 3k. I am getting really excited about Wotlk.

If that's true then I think raiding as arcane may be obsolete. 2 mages as 0/33/38 and 2 mages as 10/0/61 may completely overtake any other build if it benefits from all the talents of both trees. Depending on how ignite works it could cause some massive damage when you crit a target and have molten fury going into effect.

0/33/38
War Pirate :: Talent tree Mage

Granted you need 4 slots for mages so this build may only be 25 man viable but still it's looking to be pretty good at this point. I'd rather take the 3 points out of critical mass with this build and put them into playing with fire since you have plenty of crit from winter's chill as well but then you'd have to give up combustion and I don't know if that would be worth it yet.

10/0/61
War Pirate :: Talent tree Mage

The only issue I see with frostfire bolt is the lack of ability to talent down the cast time.

Roywyn · 05/31/08, 6:04 PM

Originally Posted by Nota

If that's true then I think raiding as arcane may be obsolete. 2 mages as 0/33/38 and 2 mages as 10/0/61 may completely overtake any other build if it benefits from all the talents of both trees. Depending on how ignite works it could cause some massive damage when you crit a target and have molten fury going into effect.

It was concluded that it was on a private server - do they work reliably (as in - do they know the proper mechanics)? I have no clue about that, thus asking.

Frostfire Bolt has no improved/empowered talents, which increase Fireball/Frostbolt by 27%-35%. That's a huge amount of missing scaling which has to be made up somewhere.

With some swapping, you can grab 3/5 WC, so you provide your own debuffs and are self-sufficient (I don't really believe in the 4-mage-raids you thought of).
(Imp.) WE might actually be better than Comb/MF, the future (sheets) will tell.

Compared to Frostbolt, you lose 5% damage, 5% crit, 10% scaling, 20% haste. From the fire tree, you gain 6% crit, 12% damage and Ignite would add ~25% damage or more at ~50% crit or more. That's in addition to Comb/MF or (Imp.)WE. MoE serves as clearcasting, but the lack of AE threat reduction might hurt.
Looks good so far, but only if Frostfire Bolt continues to get benefit from all talents.

P.S.: I'm dieing to find some info on how Hot Streak works, if it has the potential to be a great talent or of it's hard capped and there just some other minor crit talent.