seminarca

Probably not an issue in 25 man raids, but in 10 man raids? I could see it happening.

I noticed in that post:
"Physical Vulnerability Debuff: Blood Frenzy, (2nd Talent Spec TBA)"

Could this 2nd talent spec be us?

edit:

"Improved Faerie Fire: No longer benefits melee and ranged hit chance, only spell hit."

Another thought, with the removal of melee hit from Improved Faerie Fire, they could tack it on to Feral Faerie Fire instead. If they did that though, they'd need to figure out some way to make them stack. I would assume the armor debuff wouldn't stack, but the melee/spell hit would. Would probably be an implementational nightmare though .. like how would you calculate duration of the hit component vs the armor component, whether it shows up as 1 debuff or 2 on the UI etc.

 

TheNameLessOne

Yeah its not like they can do this for a snare break or anything

/cast Ghost Wolf
/cancel form

So stop being a smart ass and think why feral would be switching back and forth between caster and cat form.

 

Pzychotix

Wait what?

I think you misunderstood me. I was just asking whether Shamans would be able to use WF in Ghost Wolf form in the expansion. If they could, they'd essentially have most of the perks of a cat druid (minus stealth).

 

aldy

I'll admit I know pretty much nothing about shamans, but them trying to dps in ghost wolf would be like a druid trying to dps in travel form...it just doesn't work. So why would WF matter?

And as to the warrior thing, all the fury warrior are online complaining that they won't get a raid spot because ferals can do all the same buffs but actually tank well. It's all about perspective :-)

Horn of Winter is most definitely the DK agi/str buff that blues have mentioned previously (there is no frost/winter adjectives related to ferals, and the horn in this case is like the musical instrument of a knight).

 

Duilliath

Not playing a Shaman in the expac, but currently you shift out the second you do something other than White attacks (similar to travel form, rather than cat form).

--

What worries me is that even if we are the second class to get a 'Blood Frenzy', we'll still be competing with Warriors.
[e] I suppose it makes sense to Blizzard, as it's quite easy to expect either a Feral or a Warrior to be in the raid, be it from tanking or as a dps slot.

 

Pzychotix

They're not even remotely the same. Ghost wolf still uses their weapon damage, so the druid analog would be cat form. Granted, they have to pop out to use Stormstrike and/or shocks, but Ghost Wolf costs some 100-150 mana, as compared to our 600-900 mana cat forms. It would seem that slipping in and out of Ghost Wolf as needed would be a simple matter.

 

Duilliath

Travelform uses weapon damage as well - try switching to a regular weapon. You just don't notice it as feral weapons have +FAP which doesn't affect Travel form damage.

--

Was thinking that it would actually make [more ?] sense if they added the 'Blood Frenzy' bit to Rogues. They've been whining about raid viability because of lack of raid buffs from their side, and this consolidation will likely hit them harder than anyone else as they (currently) scale better than anyone with so many buffs/debuffs. Can't wait for the Feral push so we finally have something of a solid ground with all these discussions.

 

◊ Wraithlin

And this is a problem because?
Druids have been doing this all TBC, and ferals arent exactly tearing up the arena world.

Brutallus : http://files.filefront.com/Brutallus.../fileinfo.html
Eredar Twins : http://files.filefront.com/Twinswmv/.../fileinfo.html

 

Pzychotix

Movespeed was kind of the point. Whatever.

Druids also have to pay 600 mana.

 

• Exewut

If only ghostwolf was a % mana cost spell in wotlk right? That would solve this nonexisting problem. Oh wait, it is! So we can drop this stupid subject.

 

Pzychotix

It's only 13% as opposed to 35% mana cost for ferals. That's a pretty pronounced difference.

Anyways, just drop it.

 

◊ Wraithlin

Druids only have to shift to remove snares, what you are proposing would involve shifting every 2-5 seconds in and out of ghost wolf at a truely fucking insane rate of mana consumption. Go calculate how much mana you burn shifting to wolf after every SStrike/Shock if you have 5 seconds shocks and 10seconds SStrikes, then work out the total uptime on your wolf form (Hint. The answer is is 27seconds in every minute assuming you never drop a totem or cast any spell other than shock/WF and would involve 12 shifts or 1800 mana/minute even if it were not being changed, which it is). At 13% mana cost you would run OOM in a little under 30seconds (achieving a phenominal 13seconds of increase movement speed).

Now stop being retarded.

Brutallus : http://files.filefront.com/Brutallus.../fileinfo.html
Eredar Twins : http://files.filefront.com/Twinswmv/.../fileinfo.html

 

◊ Malan

Windfury Weapon doesn't proc in Ghost Wolf form (Flurry + weapon enchants only) so any shaman trying to do this for a prolonged amount of time would be an idiot. As stated above, this is a pretty dumb thing to whine about and something you should have been able to figure out.

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."

 

Pzychotix

Really this was all I had asked for. I can't exactly track every class change, and was just wondering if this was ever touched. Again guys, just drop it.

 

TheNameLessOne

And a feral druid spamming cat form will be out of mana well before the shaman. You are completely missing the point with the ghost wolf comparison.

Going ghost wolf for a snare break only costs the enhancement shaman some mana, beyond that they don't pay anything else. Druids on the other hand pay a huge opportunity cost with losing all energy over 40 and pay more mana for it. It akin to ghost wolf putting a 3-4 second cooldown on all shocks and stormstrike. This is why furor needs to be upped to 100 energy and moved to the side since its nothing more than a PVP talent now.

EDIT: and a shaman trying to DPS in ghost wolf is an idiot, just like a druid trying to DPS in travel form. Neither one is applicable to the actual issue at had, which is ferals' massive opportunity cost and a subpar PVP talent.

 

Pharmacon

From the new (de)buffs list of will Mangle then overwrite Trauma? I would hope so being that it adds damage to shred and maul where Trauma would not. However, being that the improvement to the bleeds is 30% in both cases, I could see Blizz messing that one up.

 

aldy

That is one question I have about this new system; just because the abilities don't stack in effect, can they still both be applied to the target? The trauma/mangle one is a good point, and there are a few others (like ebon plaguebringer buffing a DK's disease dmg but curse of elements does not). On the one hand you say, "of course blizzard will let you put both up since the abilities do have other benefits", but on the other hand, I think one other reason they are doing this is to limit the number of debuffs on the boss (or did Blue confirm that they will raise the debuff limit and this is purely and entirely a matter of raid composition?) which implies they will only let one from each category up.

As to the second blood frenzy type ability, it would be odd to give it to ferals, because then warriors and ferals would overlap on all 3 raid buffs (but maybe that is what they want?). Also, I was thinking maybe it would go to rogues, since they haven't had their balance pass yet, and it wasn't mentioned elsewhere on the debuff list, and it seems like they could modify hemo to be a 2% buff to physical dmg like blood frenzy. Although then you are putting raid utility in the PvP tree (not a rogue expert, but I think that's how it is). Maybe just tack it on to rupture or add a new poison type?

 

angral

I just changed Furor to read as follows with 5 talent points:

Gives you 100% chance to gain 10 Rage when you shapeshift into Bear and Dire Bear Form, and you keep up to 100 of your Energy when you shapeshift into Cat Form, and increases your total Intellect while in Moonkin form by 10%.

So, fully-talented, you will no longer lose any energy from shapeshifting out and back into Cat Form.

-----

From, Jimmythenumbers on the Forums: link

 

Pzychotix

Actually, we already overlap on 4 things:

Melee Critical Strike Chance Buff: Leader of the Pack, Rampage
Bleed Damage Increase Debuff: Mangle, Trauma
Melee Attack Speed Slow Debuff: Icy Touch, Infected Wounds, Judgements of the Just, Thunderclap
Attack Power Debuff: Demoralizing Roar, Curse of Weakness, Demoralizing Shout

Just two affect the boss. We also have Faerie fire, while Warriors have Battle Shout. Also, druids will have both LoTP and Mangle, while Warriors can only choose one out of Rampage and Trauma (most likely Rampage, with the way Fury is filling out).

 

Pike

I'm glad to see the change, but, doesn't it seem odd that this talent benefits every tree OTHER than the one it's located in?

 

Duilliath

Suppose so, but Moonkins/Ferals have to pick *something* to get up to OoC, and it's not like impr. MotW is a jawdropper.

 

Valerian

It is odd that its still in resto but that makes the talent significantly better than the first look we had at the "nerf". It kills powershifting as intended but doesn't hurt PvP (or shifting out to Bres, innervate etc) nearly as much. In fact unless you were high in energy and would regen over 100, it makes shifting out to Bres/innervate or heal a much more minor loss in dps than it is now (loss of some white attacks, and possibly needing to reapply mangle earlier)

 

Promethius

Will the new way to powershift be to go into bear for 5-7 seconds of dps while waiting on energy to regen to full then with this kind of Furor change? Considering enrage would be giving 15% bonus dmg anyways from KotJ, it seems somewhat viable to use up all energy in cat, go to bear, enrage and use 2x 4.5 sec cd mangles and maybe maul/swipe depending on rage generation. So long as mana isn't being actively used elsewhere, those yellow attacks and bear white dps with a +15% dmg modifier beats straight white cat dps, and threat isn't an issue, it looks from a min/max standpoint to be something to attempt each enrage cooldown.

 

tlbj6142

So, we no longer get 40 energy from furor? It just keeps the energy you have accumulated while out of cat form?