A while ago I created a multi-player event simulator to model caster dps...... and now I'm finally getting around to the physical dps classes.

I'm truly grateful for the wealth of information on these boards and on wow-wiki, but I have a few nagging questions before I can complete my architecture. I believe I've trolled through enough "Search Results" to warrant posting a question. Or at least my desire for information has come to outweigh my fear of public ridicule anyway.........

Question #1
I guess this is more of a terminology question: Can I use the term "bleed" to refer to all Physical DoTs? (with the implication being that they benefit from Mangle and suffer no armor-based damage reduction).

Question #2
Are glance/block/crit valid attack-table results for DoTs? For example: Can the application of Rend be a Glancing Blow, in which case the damage ticks would be ( Total_Rend_Damage * Glancing_Blow_Reduction ) / Num_Ticks? Or can Rend be Blocked, in which case the damage ticks would be ( Total_Rend_Damage - Target_Block_Value ) / Num_Ticks? Is the answer ability-specific?

Question #3
For casters, the modeling of target-debuff damage-multipliers was pretty straight-forward: All direct-damage spells included the multiplier at end-of-cast. All dot-damage spells queried the multiplier at each and every tick. The mechanics of Mangle would give me the impression that Physical DoTs work in a similar manner. However, are there any damage-multipliers affecting Physical-DoTs that are included at the point of attack?

Thanks in advance for any insight you have to offer.

I don't believe that there are ways to reduce Bleed effect ticks, outside ticks that are based on percentages of base damage( Aka Ignite, but thats a DoT anyway.. not a bleed)
HOWEVER, I believe that RESILIENCE reduces all periodic damage ticks( including bleeds).

Bleeds, same as DoTs can not crit.

Hope that helps, I'm sure you will get more "coherent responses" from someone more knowledgeable then me.

Ah..... I should have made this connection myself! Thanks, sp00n!

1) I'm not 100% sure that every physical DoT in the game is considered a bleed, but all player-inflicted ones (Rend, Impale, Rupture, Rip, Rake, Lacerate... is that all?) are. For the purposes of this model, I'd say it's a fair assumption.

2) No. The application of bleeds cannot glance. All bleeds are specials, for which glancing is irrelevant, and the only one that isn't always applied by a special (Impale) can't be applied by a glancing blow. I'm fairly certain blocks don't factor in either. I think the only blocks I've ever seen on DoT applications are on Rake and Lacerate, which have up-front damage components and the damage of the DoT is not affected by the fact that the initial damage was blocked. Even if the up-front damage is less than the block value of the mob or player, the DoT gets applied in full. And, like caster DoTs, bleeds cannot crit. (Exceptions being the up-front damage of Rake and Lacerate, but again, critting that or not has no effect on the resulting DoT damage.)

3) Not that I'm aware of, and I don't think the mechanics exist to determine whether or not a debuff was on the mob upon application of the DoT, only whether it's on them on a per-tick basis. While the base damage of bleeds are determined upon application (i.e., temporary AP buffs will increase the damage of Rip, Rupture, etc., for the duration of the DoT even if the AP buff fades before the DoT), the actual damage per tick is base damage times any multipliers from buffs/debuffs at the time of each tick, just like spell DoTs.

Incidentally, you have to be a little careful about using the terms "bleed" and "physical DoT" interchangeably. The up-front damage of Lacerate and Rake are considered bleed damage despite not being associated with the DoT, and are therefore not reduced by armor. I don't think there are currently any other player abilities with direct bleed damage effects, but that doesn't mean there won't be in the future, or that mobs don't have such attacks available.

Poisons are elemental damage, like you said. There's no reason for them to be included in this discussion any more than you would include Serpent Sting or an enhancement shaman's Flame Shock, despite being applied by a primarily physical DPS character.

While this is true...
Makes me want to make sure. There are a number of non-physical DoTs applied by physical DPS classes.

Thanks for this clarification...... very, very helpful.

In terms of damage per tick, my understanding is that personal buffs are applied to all ticks. Debuffs on the boss are taken into account on a per tick basis.

So one could have a buff that increases one's AP as the bleed is applied. This value is used to determine the base damage of the bleed upon initial delivery and for all ticks. Even if this buff drops mid-bleed, the AP benefit continues to apply.

However, if the boss has a debuff that increases bleed damage by say 10%, this applies on a per tick basis. If this drops mid-bleed then the tick damage will actually decrease.

Rogue Poisons are an odd duck here then. They have no resource cost, as they're a proc. They proc based on hits that follow attack table mechanics on a fixed percentage, and the procs have spell hit mechanics applied for appications/resists., as well as for damage reduction.

Garrote

And yes, there are some non-player-inflicted ones available from gear as well, but such weapons don't exist around lvl 70 I think, so we can probably forget about those (for now). I have absolutely no idea either how those react to something like Mangle as well.

For the most part, I think those are server-client communication issues, where mangle gets applied or falls off very close to the tick time, especially when the person applying mangle isn't you. I don't think it happens enough, or at least predictably enough, to try to include in a DPS model. I would assume that if this happens with Rip, it can happen with all bleeds around the application/fading of Mangle.