[top]> 42/80

testthewest · 10/13/08, 6:37 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

(1 proc per 2 strikes = 10s of uptime every 16s). That's within 30 EP of the DST, excluding the mana gain.

That's only right if procs and non-procs alternate.

Just a example to prove you wrong:

10 SS = 80 sec
First five proc the trinket, second five don't proc it.

Uptime= 42sec

[top]> 42/80

52,5%

Best possible Uptime is alternating procs, which has a uptime als you described. (62,5%)

drats · 10/13/08, 6:37 PM

Do LS charges through static shock eat Stormstrike charges?

Kyrious · 10/13/08, 6:44 PM

Originally Posted by Amaxe

Improved Ghostwolf

Makes sence why I didnt realize, I havnt used GW since about level 40. Does Imp GW do anything extra other than making it an instant cast now?

I know I'll be using it a bit more often in 3.0, as the glyph is a nice boost while grinding/farming, but if the talent doesnt do anything but make it an instant, I cant see a reason to put points into it.

Zaurok · 10/13/08, 7:06 PM

Originally Posted by drats

Do LS charges through static shock eat Stormstrike charges?

Yes, which is why they gave imp. SS more charges. In the unlikely event that you get multiple static shock procs in a row, it will eat most if not all of the SS charges.

I've seen 2-3 static charge procs in quick succession although it's rare.

drats · 10/13/08, 7:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kyrious

Makes sence why I didnt realize, I havnt used GW since about level 40. Does Imp GW do anything extra other than making it an instant cast now?

I know I'll be using it a bit more often in 3.0, as the glyph is a nice boost while grinding/farming, but if the talent doesnt do anything but make it an instant, I cant see a reason to put points into it.

All Imp GW does is make it instant. It comes in handy for several raid encounters, like Kalecgos and Supremus. I personally refuse to take a build without it, I use it constantly for grinding and farming.

@zaurok: The next question being is it worth the loss of LB/ES damage to take static shock at 70? I haven't been on the beta or PTR so I don't have a good feel for the MW proc rate or the mana consumption of instant LB. My gut tells me that static shock is worth it, but this thread is about numbers.

Levva · 10/13/08, 8:39 PM

Originally Posted by Gavain

@Levva

I just started to play around with it, I originally didn´t use it and want to keep addons as few
as possible.

But your MW-Sound is just great to keep track on that :p
The default sound may be a little...tiny and not loud enough...but well, thats just me, I´m more the fell-nova guy *cough* (I´m above 30, so I need something that makes my boxes explode to realize I have to hit the LB/CL button :p )

I tried a few times to activate/deactivate LavaLash bar, best was the default bar shows up as a static bar, but does nothing while using LL.

Everything else looks fine, helpful little tool so far, customization is good too.

I've taken on board all the change requests a couple of pages back and have fixed Lava Lash.

New version 2.93 up - changelog is :

Version 2.91
Fixed lava lash bar bug when you turn the option on
Added additional sound options
Added option to play sound on 4 stacks of MW
Added option to vary time between sounds of 5 MW stacks

Version 2.92
Fixed some French translations thanks to Phops Illidan(EU)
Should now fully work on French Client

Version 2.93
Fixed bug with turning on and off MW4 sound option

Get it quick before patch chaos hits the addon servers.

Zaurok · 10/13/08, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by drats

All Imp GW does is make it instant. It comes in handy for several raid encounters, like Kalecgos and Supremus. I personally refuse to take a build without it, I use it constantly for grinding and farming.

@zaurok: The next question being is it worth the loss of LB/ES damage to take static shock at 70? I haven't been on the beta or PTR so I don't have a good feel for the MW proc rate or the mana consumption of instant LB. My gut tells me that static shock is worth it, but this thread is about numbers.

It's not very common for static shock proc'ing more than once in a row so I doubt you'll have to worry about it eating the SS charges that could be used for ES/LB.

You'll be lucky if it procs twice in-between SS.

At 70, it's not very wise to use LS over WS unless you have no mana problems (lasting 105 seconds before going oom)

Uruhara · 10/14/08, 1:02 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

I'd like to start soliciting feedback for the ThinkTank wiki article for 3.0 updates based on things that we know to be true. If you've got some time and can start noting updates that need to be made, please post them on the ThinkTank article, with specific sections that need to be changed.

ie, tell me the exact section number, and what needs to be changed, along with any data that might be needed if you've got it.

Could you post a link to this 3.0 article in the ThinkTank wiki?

• Aeolian · 10/14/08, 1:36 AM

Originally Posted by Uruhara

Could you post a link to this 3.0 article in the ThinkTank wiki?

He's gathering information to get it started, it isn't there yet.

Edit: I suppose the smart thing to do would be to update the current post, effectively rewriting it, with the new information. So yeah, its there, just not updated for 3.0.

Low Life · 10/14/08, 1:57 AM

I did some quick tests with the default stats on the sim, and I've pretty much decided to not use LL at 70 if I end up raiding. The loss of not using it is around 120dps (this is with all raid buffs and quite a bit better gear than mine), but in return mana used in 2 minutes goes down from 9600 to about 8200, which to me seems like a fair trade.

Acks · 10/14/08, 3:00 AM

Originally Posted by Low Life

I did some quick tests with the default stats on the sim, and I've pretty much decided to not use LL at 70 if I end up raiding. The loss of not using it is around 120dps (this is with all raid buffs and quite a bit better gear than mine), but in return mana used in 2 minutes goes down from 9600 to about 8200, which to me seems like a fair trade.

We will have to see how well replenishment carries us over between SR cooldowns. I am optimistic that we can bridge that gap raid buffed, and perhaps with a mana pot, last long enough for most longer boss fights in the game currently.

Low Life · 10/14/08, 3:22 AM

Just remembered that all the raid bosses' hp is nerfed and that combined with higher overall dps (my own simmed dps with some basic buffs goes drom a bit over 1.1k to about 1.8k) might mean that on the bosses I'll be killing 1m30s + 15s + 1m30s should be enough indeed. Will have to see how it works, but in the end the hardest bossess I'll be killing are in ZA so it's not really that big of an issue.

Raut · 10/14/08, 4:05 AM

Originally Posted by testthewest

That's only right if procs and non-procs alternate.

Just a example to prove you wrong:

10 SS = 80 sec
First five proc the trinket, second five don't proc it.

Uptime= 42sec

[top]> 42/80

52,5%

Best possible Uptime is alternating procs, which has a uptime als you described. (62,5%)

Are you new to proc mechanics? Of course procs can screw you over, but due to RNG and time these things will even out. You haven't proven anything.

Vim · 10/14/08, 4:26 AM

Im not on Beta, and cant get on the PTR to test this, but I was wondering about the possibility of 4/5 UR stacking with Trueshot Aura. Having played a shaman through TBC, Ive seen some wonky things, ( COE stacking, WF twisting obviously, 4 stack flurries) and was just wondering if it has been tested. Im guessing the mechanics cause TSA to override UR if it is stronger, but I have no way to test this for sure.

EDIT: Im also wondering if the increase to "friendly" totems range affects the snare removal of Earthen Power?

Gavain · 10/14/08, 4:49 AM

@Amairgin

Recount shows totems/pets etc. in an extra window

There is an detail-option after you left-clicked your dps-bar in the window with the grafik-display. This opens up another window, where your pets/totems and some other details are shown. Just left-click on the part with the pet/totem to switch through them.

Bellante · 10/14/08, 5:11 AM

Originally Posted by Acks

Not sure if posting sim results just for comparison is frowned upon here. I myself would like to see other raiding (sunwell geared) enh shaman's EP weights, so ill post mine and a few thoughts.

Im in almost full sunwell gear sans Muru/KJ gear. I added hit rating until i was at the spell hit cap, and im expertise capped as well. The goal here is to see what gear/stats I should favor AFTER the hit cap.

According to the sim, I should gem AP as no other stat seems to come close to it. Hit, haste and crit are all about equal. int and armor pen are equal.

My own results are similar, however, I found that simulating with too little # of hours resulted in very unstable hit rating EP. Bit the bullet and simmed 500,000 hours. Results are a bit weird, haste seems very poor for me, and I have about 3-4% less than you, so I don't understand that difference. AP comes on top for gemming, which I'm actually quite happy with, due to it's not-as-heavily-eroded during levelling.

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      3059.29
ap                        1.00      0.59      3082.71        23.42
crit rating               1.68      0.98      3078.98        19.69
hit rating                1.70      1.00      3079.22        19.92
expertise rating          0
haste rating              0.89      0.52      3069.69        10.39
armor penetration rating  1.61      0.94      3078.15        18.86
spellpower                0.64      0.37      3063.03        3.74
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.89
intelligence              1.31
mh dps                    6.39      3.74      3087.37        28.07
oh dps                    3.57      2.09      3074.96        15.66


elapsed simulation time: 5000000.00h
elapsed real time: 5498.86s
simulation speed: 3273405x

Config (I used spicy hot talbuk as food of choice, so I'm hit capped with 12.44%):

simulation_time                 500000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         150

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    5
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   10
ep_dps                          7.5

mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          103.1
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         29.61
oh_crit                         29.61
mh_hit                          8.75
oh_hit                          8.75
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              2056
haste                           3.11
armor_penetration               21.07
str                             306
agi                             210
int                             254
spellpower                      616
spell_crit                      26.72
spell_hit                       12.44
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        dragonspine_trophy
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       skyshatter_harness_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    -
glyph_major2                    -
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

rotation_priority_count         4
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

Mengus · 10/14/08, 5:21 AM

Just a reminder, there's the 15 (spell) hit enchant for gloves to be considered, as getting to the hit cap with that enchant may prove more effective, and allow you to gem for more AP instead of hit, depending on your gear.

Also, someone mentioned that the Seaspray for Crit/Mp5 might actually be useful, though how it compares to the 10 ap / sta gem depends on your ep values of course.

Raut · 10/14/08, 5:25 AM

Bellante - ep_spellpower is too low. You should follow the item budget for more accurate results. In your case 24.

Pitbuller · 10/14/08, 7:07 AM

Originally Posted by Raut

Bellante - ep_spellpower is too low. You should follow the item budget for more accurate results. In your case 24.

That don't matter a thing. Spell power scale linearly. Higher is more accuracy thought. But when I say higher I mean like 1000. Ep values are calculated adding ep range to sim and counting how much it did increase dps. Then divided that dps with ep range. Then divided that with ap dps value. Range only filter Rng there.

Different note:
Bt reputation trinket uptime is:
I calculated it with avarage uptime formula:
1 - propapility^(duration/cooldown)
1 - 0.5^(10/8) = 0.58 or 58% uptime.

Bellante: You just founded old good haste cap. With flyrry, wf totem, passive haste + mongoose, swift retribution aura weapons speed go close to 1.5. I have get negative haste value many time. Still haste is best stat after ap for me. Haste don't scale very linearly with douple windfury and ep values aren't full truth allways. Good stat but not worth of gemming.

Low Life: Allways use every skill on cd. It's better to gem int and use lava lash than not using it. Lava Lash is 2.05 dps per mp5 that good very value. 50 intellect would give enough mana to cover lava lash in rotation. Intellect ep value is ~1.3 and 2*ap value is 2 so total loss of 35ep or about 20dps. Lava lash give 120dps so you gain 100dps.

iconocclast · 10/14/08, 8:51 AM

Upon downloading the patch just now, the notes say that Dual Wield is only increased by 1,2,3%. Was it not changed back to 6% as of last week?

Hixxy · 10/14/08, 9:00 AM

Originally Posted by iconocclast

Upon downloading the patch just now, the notes say that Dual Wield is only increased by 1,2,3%. Was it not changed back to 6% as of last week?

Keep in mind the fact that every PTR build used those same exact sets of notes. Its simply blizz being lazy I think

Raut · 10/14/08, 9:03 AM

I am aware that EP is calculated based on ranges, but 10 spellpower is low. Since you have no better scale than item budget, why not follow that?

Low Life · 10/14/08, 9:05 AM

Originally Posted by Pitbuller

Low Life: Allways use every skill on cd. It's better to gem int and use lava lash than not using it. Lava Lash is 2.05 dps per mp5 that good very value. 50 intellect would give enough mana to cover lava lash in rotation. Intellect ep value is ~1.3 and 2*ap value is 2 so total loss of 35ep or about 20dps. Lava lash give 120dps so you gain 100dps.

To me gemming int is not really an option, I'd hate to gem for something that's only going to be of help for 5% of my time (I don't raid actively) and even then only if