[Enhance Shaman] WotLK Talents and spells discussion. - Page 20

Rounced · 07/23/08, 3:04 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

Finally: I'm guessing even if they DON'T fix the swing timer issue, we'll still be using Maelstrom unless we do massive amounts of offhand damage. A swing timer like quartz can be used to minimize the MH penalty of the reset.

WoW Forums -> Maelstrom Weapon

We hope to have it not reset your swing timer sometime soon.

Skiace · 07/23/08, 3:17 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

I doubt we'll be using Flametongue. Remember: we have 20 yd totems now. The only folks in range will be other melee types, of whom only shamans and paladins can use the buff, and for us 84 spell damage does not out perform the DPS of Searing.

I could see it being situationally useful, but I'll agree that we'll be dropping Searing most of the time.

◊ Malan · 07/23/08, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

WoW Forums -> Maelstrom Weapon

Double benefit there - Koraa added a signature, he/she isn't just a CM, that's an actual Class Designer that's been chatting with us, and who took all that initial feedback from Alpha from us.

Fearlezz · 07/23/08, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by Deadstar

Shouldn't Linked Armor of the Sphere say "hit", instead of "melee hit"?

Take a look at Robe of Novos

Robes of Novos
Binds when picked up
Chest        	Cloth
261 Armor
+61 Intellect
+37 Stamina
Durability 80 / 80
Requires Level 75
Equip: Improves melee haste rating by 53.
Equip: Increases spell power by 54.

Think it's just a problem with WoWDB and other sites still having the old, split stat system and they recognize "haste", "hit" and "crit" as melee haste, hit and crit since caster stats specifically state "spell haste" etc.

Harmann · 07/23/08, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

What? Arena is going to be "ruined" sometime, no matter what, whether by folks leveling to 71 and no longer being competetive or by the patch. Again: the IT cost of releasing both the expansion and the newest patch on the same day, not to mention the time sink of everybody respeccing, means that the value of an early patch is greater for everybody. Arena folks can go cry on the wow forums; they're going to anyway.

Hey man, I'm not saying I'm against or for Arenas here. It would heavily screw with the end of Season 4 though if they were to launch a 3.0 patch with the new talents and mechanics.

I don't think Blizzard cares about Arenas from 70-80, for all we know it's like the way things are right now, you can't even set foot in a rated match without being at the level cap.

Maybe what they will do is end Season 4 a month before Wrath hits shelves and patch a 3.0 build. This will help the last few guilds kill off Sunwell and will let everyone else chill out for a month, finish leveling alts to 70, respec, regem and prepare for Wrath of The Lich King. It won't mess up the competition for Gladiator titles (which may actually be more interesting this Season what with all the changes and fixes they've done with the ratings system).

Gunny P · 07/23/08, 4:52 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Double benefit there - Koraa added a signature, he/she isn't just a CM, that's an actual Class Designer that's been chatting with us, and who took all that initial feedback from Alpha from us.

Yes, that is very cool.

I don't expect to see Koraa replying to your Windfury Weapon Controversy post however. I would expect them to keep that discussion private and that is unfortunate.

Sprout · 07/23/08, 5:37 PM

Posts in the shaman beta forum are indicating that maelstrom does not currenlty speed up healing casts. Can this be verified?

• Toots Hepcat · 07/23/08, 5:52 PM

That's a decent post; however, long and short of it is we should be using slow weapons even if it weren't for the cooldown. More flurried strikes, better SR utility, more weapon enchant procs, etc etc.

I've always had a suspicion that the 36% proc rate was an accident and the cooldown was an attempt to regulate that accident.

• Toots Hepcat · 07/23/08, 5:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sprout

Posts in the shaman beta forum are indicating that maelstrom does not currenlty speed up healing casts. Can this be verified?

Yes, and has been. Several pages ago. It was also indicated that the Wow.com talent tree was wrong (it is not any spell that will be instant cast from Maelstrom), the Wowhead talent tree was right (it is just damage spells that will be instant cast), and Sprout needs to pay better attention.

Can I please have no more posts about:
- Discrepancies between the Wow.com talent tree and the wowhead talent tree (at a given instant, wowhead et al will be more right, because they are reverse engineered from the beta and the wow talent tree is written by a tech writer at Blizzard).
- Discrepancies between mechanics as implemented and tooltips. Tooltips will be wrong. Heck, tooltips in the live game are often wrong.

Can I please have more posts about:
- Hey toots, your math is wrong.
- Hey toots, I am in the beta and here is some new data you can chow down on
- Hey toots, I am not in the beta, but here is a coupon for free beer.

Rounced · 07/23/08, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sprout

Posts in the shaman beta forum are indicating that maelstrom does not currenlty speed up healing casts. Can this be verified?

The only people who can post in the Beta forums are people actually in the beta. If you read it there consider it verified. Whether it is functioning how the designers intend or whether it will change prior to launch that is another matter entirely.

Buanna · 07/23/08, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

I've always had a suspicion that the 36% proc rate was an accident and the cooldown was an attempt to regulate that accident.

Didn't the cooldown predate dual-wielding Shaman by some goodly amount of time?

Skiace · 07/23/08, 7:34 PM

Originally Posted by Buanna

Didn't the cooldown predate dual-wielding Shaman by some goodly amount of time?

Yes, it was implemented way back when enhance shaman with Sulfuras and other big slow 2-handers would occasionally chain proc windfury and insta-gib people in warsong gulch.

Killme888 · 07/23/08, 7:41 PM

Originally Posted by Sprout

you have a point about nerfing the pure classes, but how can you NOT think this wont create a problem with hybrids? It would essentially mean that pallies and shammies get double the bonus per item point. Druids not so much since they cant cast much in kitty and bear.

so for the same cost as today I am getting increase in my spell hit/crit/haste AND my melee spell hit/crit/haste.

I suppose that you might argue that since you can only do one thing at a time its not that huge of a bump, and you may be right. But it would not suprise me at ALL if bliz did change the costs.

Because the hybrids are specialized in one thing, take us for example, our melee damage makes up about 85-90% of ALL our damage. Getting double bonus on 10-15% of damage is pretty minimal compared to nerfing every non-hybrid wouldn't you think so?

Lujaar · 07/23/08, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Skiace

Yes, it was implemented way back when enhance shaman with Sulfuras and other big slow 2-handers would occasionally chain proc windfury and insta-gib people in warsong gulch.

The 3 second cooldown went into the game in patch 1.11, the "shaman review patch" in 60 WoW. Like Skiace said, it predates dualwielding. The 36% proc rate is likely an attempt to mitigate the impact of the cooldown, not the other way around.

Imabug · 07/23/08, 11:07 PM

Just as a heads up, I've been having an interesting time on Beta - Windfury Totem from both a talented Enhancement Shaman and non-talented Resto are stacking.

No buffs

Single Totem (Talented)

Two totems (One talented, one untalented)

Bloodlust + One talented Windfury + One untalented Windfury + 2 * Mongoose + Flurry

One talented Totem + two untalented totems

Enjoy that while it lasts. I fully expect that to disappear soon, otherwise you could 25-Shaman something and have sub 0.20 weapon swing speeds and nearly instagib bosses. However, if it (for some reason) was intended, that would bring some interesting viability to groups with melee or caster heavyness, because other totems (in theory) would stack.

I did some testing with other totems, though. Strength of Earth, all resist totems, Flametongue, Wrath of Air, and Stoneskin do NOT stack with each other. However Mana Spring *DOES* stack with itself now. But the improved talent is broken (So 20 mp2 is all you're getting no matter what). I haven't been able to test Totem of Wrath yet.

LazyJoe · 07/24/08, 4:35 AM

That would be insane even if only differently talented version could stack. Just imagine a resto dropping untalented windfury, and 2 enhance with 1 and 2 points in the talent. 54% melee haste

It'll be like it is now, only the strongest totem will apply.

Stopokingme · 07/24/08, 6:54 AM

Can anyone confirm if Mongoose keeps the 120 agi past level 70 or if the effect is reduced every level like Crusader after level 60? I think I'll be stocking up on void crystals regardless.

Groombah · 07/24/08, 6:57 AM

I would like to return to the issue of the new agility/crit relation. Either I do not understand it correctly, but in your two screenshots in your post Malan ( [Enhance Shaman] WotLK Talents and spells discussion. ) you have agility numbers that give greater increase to crit percentage than with relationship of 40 agility needed per crit. It's more aligned with ratio of 30, if my calculator is functioning.

Is there some esoteric reference here or am I simply forgetting something? Would be nice to know. I can't check my beta numbers, but based on what I remember, I think my crit percentage dropped about 4%, which would be in line with ratio of 30 agility per crit.

Stopokingme · 07/24/08, 7:14 AM

Originally Posted by Groombah

I would like to return to the issue of the new agility/crit relation. Either I do not understand it correctly, but in your two screenshots in your post Malan ( [Enhance Shaman] WotLK Talents and spells discussion. ) you have agility numbers that give greater increase to crit percentage than with relationship of 40 agility needed per crit. It's more aligned with ratio of 30, if my calculator is functioning.

Is there some esoteric reference here or am I simply forgetting something? Would be nice to know. I can't check my beta numbers, but based on what I remember, I think my crit percentage dropped about 4%, which would be in line with ratio of 30 agility per crit.

The 40 agi per crit is based on being level 80, which isn't attainable right now yet, Malan was at 75 iirc.

Roywyn · 07/24/08, 7:23 AM

Originally Posted by Stopokingme

The 40 agi per crit is based on being level 80, which isn't attainable right now yet, Malan was at 75 iirc.

No, it's 40 agi for 1% crit at level 70. The reason why the tooltip is misleading is because you have some base crit.

Naked, it shows something like "50 agi, adds 5% crit". That doesn't mean that you get 1% for every 10 agi.
In fact, it doesn't say anything at all, because of the 5% crit includes base crit.

You need to put on a piece of gear to see something like "70 agi, adds 5.5% crit". Then you see that adding 20 agi adds 0.5% crit. I.e. you need 40 agi for 1% crit.

That what Malan did - two screenies for two values of agi and crit. The agi difference adds the crit difference.
Their ratio is the needed agi per 1% crit.

Groombah · 07/24/08, 7:30 AM

Thank you for clarifying that Roywyn. I was wondering a bit, but now the values make sense.

kaasi · 07/24/08, 7:52 AM

the math on this isn't really that complex. in the 2 screens 62 agility altered his crit by 1.55%

62/1.55= 40

◊ Malan · 07/24/08, 7:59 AM

The screenshots of my agility:crit ratio were at level 70 on a fresh beta copy, my lvl 75 Alpha copy was still locked at the time.