berg

Guess I jumped the gun a little on Elemental devastation. It looks decent but not in any overpowered kind of way.

Using the following assumptions.

Shock every 5 seconds.
Lightning orb discharge every 17 seconds.
Spell crit 20%

I get an Elemental devastation uptime of roughly 40%. This represents a 4% melee crit gain which is good but not absurdly so for 3 talents points.

At Spell crit 30% the uptime hits in the 58-60% range. I am not sure what the feasibility of 30% spell crit is, probably not too likely but it would represent 6 melee crit for 3 talent points which is very good.


Of note a 1.5 dagger with flametongue ant 25% crit would keep Elemental devastation up over 90% of the time.

 

Rhaegal

Even in the worst case there (which actually might be a little high... 20% spell crit is probably going to be infeasible considering how much of our crit comes from Thundering Strikes and Agility), it's still better DPS per talent point than Thundering Strikes/Cruelty/Malice/etc, and those are all considered must-haves for any enhance shaman/warrior/rogue build.

[e] On the other hand, that's not to say that EP values will remain anywhere near what they are right now. It may be that with the changes to crit rating, the addition of Elemental Devastation to the "cookie cutter" build, we might all be using pure +crit gems in our gear instead of strength, among other factors.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

 

docseuzz

between the two reductions on shock cost (shammy focus + elem focus) - shocks become crazy efficient once crit rates are at a decent level. Combine that with more charges on stormstrike - reverb has it's benefits for making sure all stormstrike charges are used in a raiding environment (plus kiting/interrupts).

My raiding enh build (dropped imp SR, imp GW, and only kept 2 points in dodge, and dumped rest into elemental):
War Tools :: Talent tree WotLK - Test

 

◊ Malan

Well yah, right now a lot of crit comes from Agility. The entire idea here is that we'd be looking for gear that stacked Crit Rating though. The changes they're making right now stand to redefine how enhancement shaman gear themselves.

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."

 

docseuzz

Also - will probably have big slow 1h axe MH, mace for solo in OH, fist for raid in OH (if armor reduction is mob debuff vs self buff)

 

Vernichter

Gearing for crit might not be as easily done depending on the hunter talents and how they design hunter/enhancement mail. Obviously hunters want a ton of agility, and I do not foresee agi-lite gear.

"Mass dispel now 10 targets (up from 5)" - Playered
"Clearly a nerf to Zul'jin bear phase -- more catering to casuals, and it sickens me." - Praetorian

 

• Smithist

Why on earth would you not pick up Imp. Weapons totems? I'd say it's worth losing .4 seconds on your shock cd, Anticipation over Imp. GW is a strange choice as well.

 

PsyBomb

I guess I jumped a bit quick once I saw the talent, forgive me. Just came from the Resto side of things and some Elemental debate, momentum had a lot to do with the thought (my guy is Resto). On second look, even assuming Enhance will be sporting Int values in the 600 range (decent chance of this, considering the gear focus changes), the talent would give only 36 AP to Enhance. Crow has been eaten by me, followed by my own foot.

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

 

◊ Malan

You jumped the gun again, Flametongue Weapon procs do not proc Elemental Devastation. We went over this months ago.

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."

 

• Exewut

PsyBomb, I can't agree at all with your conclusions. I'm quite confident that this here will become the new cookie cutter build: War Tools :: Talent tree WotLK - Test

Then there's 3 points left to put (quit likely) into improved SR and 1 to put somewhere in the elemental tree. It might be an idea to try to skim some points somewhere so you can get improved fire nova (0/2 improved wf totem and then 1 point more somewhere in the lower half of the tree) for the stun effect, which is quite nice in 5 mans.

 

Pitbuller

We will want cap spell hit quick as possible and without resto talents. So around 200rating is needed(16*12.5).
Then stack crit rating. Str is good but agi is pretty weak. I make some ruff calculation

Wotlk sample ep values(under spell hit cap):
hit rating 2.9ep
crit rating 2.6ep
str 2.2ep
haste 2.2ep
agility 1.9ep
int 1.1

We get 1agi + 1int about same that we get 1hit rating. So its pretty easy to say what gear we want.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Low Life

The only talent calculator I've seen (the one on War-Tools.net) still has Ancestral Knowledge as 6% mana maxed, should it be Intelligence or are people just forgetting that mana =/= Int?

With the tree being like this it seems to suck a lot of talent points if you want to have an all-around build (including Imp SR etc.), but I'm really liking what I'm seeing, with spells actually playing a noticeable role. Really interesting to see how crit/hit rating values turn out with the synergy.

Edit: Pitbuller, the amount of Hit rating required for 1% of hit will be going up with level, so more than 200 rating will be needed for 16% +hit with spells.

 

PsyBomb

I know I made a few mistakes in my build and openly admit it, but there is one thing wrong with yours. It is working under current assumptions, and is wasting a couple of points buffing both of the melee Air totems. I was working from the "no twisting" assumption, though it may not come true for a bit. I'm also not quite sure about the value of Elemental Focus in Enhance. If Stormstrike counts as a spell, then I agree with you, but I'm not secure on that fact. Can someone verify/deny?

EDIT: My apologies for the tone, it came out a bit harsher than I'd intended. I think I'm going to just stop making a fool of myself and stick to the Resto and Warlock discussions for now.

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

 

• Smithist

I don't see how it's any different than the new interest in Devastation. Even without SS, the spell crit we're likely to be gaining should make the returns from Focus pretty appealing. Best of all you only have to spend one point on it.

 

◊ Malan

No. Please stop. Enhancing Totems buffs Grace of Air and Strength of Earth. Improved Weapon Totems buffs Windfury Totem. Do you see why a raiding shaman needs both of those now? Its not 'wasting points' by any means.

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."

 

PSGarak

You're still working under the assumption that windfury totem will always be better than grace of air. Some of the rogue poison talents (IP procs DP plus envenom refreshing S&D) throw that into question, and some of us are still kinda hoping for some other comparable form of weapon imbue so that the difference between enh shaman not enh shaman is not the difference between kill the boss and cancel the raid. Leaving out improved weapon totems may be eventually be viable for some raid setups. That's still half-speculatory, though, so carry on...

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....88847noszh.png

 

• Exewut

That is true, but there's always the case where you'll be put in the tank group and where WF (warriors and paladins) will be the better choice. I took imp wf totem and elemental focus mainly because they aren't that expensive and they provide some flexibility. We will probably have quite a high spell crit chance, and if lavashock turns out to be an instant (apparently it's a 2s cast ) then we'll have a guaranteed crit every 2 shocks. Which would basically mean that all your schocks are for free (depending on how the -40% and -60% mana cost of shamanistic and elemental focus stack).
Even if this turns out to be false, then elemental focus is still a great talent. It will reduce manacosts of all your shocks, lowering the dependency on the for mana use of SR, and leaving that clicky free fordefensive uses. It also makes selfheals cheaper which is nice for solo'ing and 5 mans.

The main thing I was disagreeing with PsyBomb is that you went for the resto subspec, which I think is a suboptimal choice. And no your tone wasn't harsh.

 

spanko

War Tools :: Talent tree WotLK - Test

This is what im looking at for PvE raiding. Not at all set on it though, I'd like to get Imp Weapon totems but the return on those 2 points isn't very good, but I guess it depends on new ranks of WF totem before I can decide for sure.

Obviously with this build you keep lightning shield up, hence no water shield so I'm assuming even without twisting that mana is going drain faster so I put 2 points in convection over putting them in Elemental Warding which if raiding is anyting like Sunwell in WotLK will help a lot.

The main problem I see with the Enhancement tree right now is spending your first 15 points, I wish Imp Weapon Toems could be coombined with enhanced totems or moved down a tier. Also I really hate not having Totemic Mastery, but I just don't see a way to get it. As for Imp SR, my opinion is a total waste of 2 talent points in raids, and I have no qualms whatsoever respeccing multiple times a week if need be for PvP. Ancestral Knowledge is still awful and I wouldn't get it even if it was 3 points for 10% instead of 6. Maybe if they combined it with shield spec and left the talent at 2 points I would pick it up for pvp though.

The changes are in general, amazing, but both resto and enhancement talent trees are too bloated.

 

artic

War Tools :: Talent tree WotLK - Test

For me. I debate how much dps will be lost with Static shock, and the utility of an AE stun on a short timer while enhancement is just juicy to me. PURE raiding builds will probably disagree but my shaman is a bit more played with more utility.

So AE stun, the wolves, some immunity to stuns/snares, instant ghost wolf. WIthout Static shock I can afford to run Water sheild, which with just the crit reduction talents on shocks mana will be a non-issue even with the more frequent shocking. Only question is Imp wep totems, will I still need that or not.

Imp Fire nova change and placement is just to good to be overlooked by most Enhancement builds I seen. Hardcore full raid spec understandable, but the rest? Get it!

 

spanko

imp Fire Nova is going to be great for all the non-Taurens, but for us cows I think its not quite as useful.

 

artic

Yes well, us space Russians must spend talent points to compare to the majesty of our horned brethren.

 

PSGarak

War Stomp has a cooldown. Why is more AoE stun a bad thing?

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....88847noszh.png

 

Deltrus

Wikidot now says that shamans have a new spell. It is in the section that usually has confirmed abilities but we can't say for sure that it is not just a mob ability.

Here it is; Hex - Transforms the enemy into a random critter, reducing the target's movement speed by 75%. While moving, the hexed target cannot attack or cast spells. Only one target can be hexed at a time. Only works on Humanoids and Beasts.

Sorta seems like polymorph without a heal... looks like shaman are gonna be very desired in pve if the duration in long + imagine this in pvp.

Heres the link WotLK Information Wiki: Shaman Abilities

 

Toastradamus

Some downsides to Hex though: 1 minute cooldown from the description I saw, and it does nothing if your target is satisfied standing still.

Of course, then there's the upside that it doesn't say anything about breaking on damage...

All in all it looks like a strong pvp ability, but pretty craptastic for pve unless I'm missing some badass use for it.

 

Rhaegal