Shokkina

i think the only real solution would be to increase the chance to proc WF and limit to MH only(or increase the damage dealt) but removing the hidden CD is not the right solution. It would give again too much burst potential and blizzard is trying to avoid it(through hidden CD on items/skill such as sword spec, omen of clarity etc...). Also without the hidden cd there would be too much of an increase in our damage while under Heroism/bloodlust that could be a serious issue for arena balance since in each arena all CDs are resetted(but bloodlust/heroism is dispellable anyway).

I don't know which solution would be optimal for WF mechanic, but a complete removal of the hidden CD is not going to happen(i hope) because it would lead to a nerf in its damage that would nerf us badly in pve.

 

Rounced

I don't think they would ever remove the cooldown completely.

What I could see them doing is making it mainhand only and then either allowing haste to reduce the cooldown or just simply reducing the cooldown to something like 1 second (basically just enough to prevent back-to-back windfuries)

 

Whirling_Dervish

Quick question:

Can anyone confirm whether the 6% mana cost reduction to instant cast spells granted by 3/3 Mental Quickness will apply to a Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, or Lava Burst cast with 5 stacks of Maelstrom Weapon?

 

Rounced

Nope, doesn't even give you the 6% if you make Ghost Wolf instant with talents.

 

Talaus-Mok'Nathal

I thought, at one point in time, that a blue actually said that that was a bug. Of course, my memory could very easily be failing me.

I can't imagine them taking out the cooldown, or even lowering it. And if they do, would a slow weapon still be dominate in your mainhand? Windfury is more of your total damage than SS, so more procs at the cost of SS damage would probably put fast weapons on top.

 

Hothgor

Additionally, are these simulations factoring in the new WF glyph?

 

Gurth999

Would it matter? The AP bonus to WF should be a flat DPS increase across weapon speeds if the cooldown was removed. If you windfury twice as often for half as much you're doing the same amount of windfury damage. Am I missing something?

I think the benefit of faster weapons would have to be in static shock and maelstrom weapon.

 

dedmonwakeen

StaticShock and MW by itself is not enough to make a faster OH worthwhile....... the hit to Stormstrike is too high. In order to make it worthwhile you need Flametongue on the OH. This cuts down on the WF procs. So...... with increasing AP the cost of losing WF procs becomes too high.

I have been including the WF glyph in my runs...... but as several folks have noted, the gear level I used was almost certainly too low.

It is possible that higher AP levels would eat up all the gains in Static Shock and Flametongue.

I could do more runs to analyze this, but....

* I have no idea what gear levels to use...... Does anybody?

* I'd rather folks work on confirming the accuracy of the sim before attributing too much weight to its results.

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft

 

Feress

One thing that needs to be theroycrafted and tested out when the time comes is what enhancement spell rotation will be like in level 80 raid content. With maelstorm weapon and Lava Burst im sure its going to be alot more complicated then: Stormstrike, flame shock, earth shock, stormstrike, flame shock, earth shock.

 

WarTotem

I'm probably going for a Stormstrike-Shock-Shock-SS-... rotation with 1 Imp. SS and no Reverbaration(9:6 rotation with no clipping). Shock would be Flame Shock + Earth Shock rotation, replacing ES with FS if I just used up MW buff with LvB.

You know, something like this 12/59/0 build. Most likely talents to be swapped around are Static Shock, imp. Ghost Wolf, maybe imp. Shields. Possible takers for the points are Elemental Warding, Ancestral Knowledge or Spectral Transformation, depending on WLK raiding environments.

 

Wotnot

All the more reason Maelstrom should have a longer duration then. A new attack skill that can be talented at level 59 should be useful from that point, not when we are all at level 80 and geared up with enough raid gear to put out enough critical strikes for it to be used.

 

Rounced

If it worked with heals too then it really wouldn't need a longer duration.

 

Whirling_Dervish

We're being robbed! I can only hope this is unintentional and will be corrected.

Also, can anyone confirm whether the new combined Haste Rating will affect the GCD the way Spell Haste Rating is now? If so, hitting the GCD Haste cap would seemingly smooth out our new spell rotation and avoid cooldowns overlapping.

 

Tornaz

Regarding Static Shock: Am I right in considering that this will be counterproductive for raiding synergy builds due to the consumption of Stormstrike Charges? Apologies if this has already been raised or answered, but I haven't seen it so far, nor have I seen any discussion of the possible effects.

Alternatively, has anyone raised the issue of periodic and proc damage effects eating SS charges to the development team, and suggested a mechanic change towards a similar effect as the warlocks Improved Shadowbolt effect?

 

• frmorrison

Mental Quickness has never reduced the mana cost of cast time spells that were turned into instants.

It is a bug, but something that is very low on the list to fix.

 

• Toots Hepcat

I think by doubling the number of charges while (potentially) increasing their frequency by 20%, Blizzard has chosen to leave the mechanic unchanged.

(Incidentally, even if you don't use SS every 8s, that extra charge is a real benefit to the raid. Worth the 2 points.)

The numbers I'm seeing look like a static shock every 10s or so. It's still a net increase to the number of SS buffs available for consumption.

A clever idea, poorly analyzed, is cloaked stupidity.

 

Tornaz

But is it a net increase to overall raid damage compared to leaving all 4 SS charges for Wrath and Lightning bolt, and taking other talents with the 6 points?

It's also worth considering with reference to the Mage talent Focus Mind, which also has a charge limitation. The interaction of Proc effects with charge based effects is a distinct issue.

 

Gurth999

If static shock isn't going to be used as a raid talent, it needs to be replaced or changed.

 

Prost

Could it be that Blizzard wants to give us options? My typical raid setup doesn't have either an elemental shaman or a moonkin, so static shock would completely benefit me. On the other hand, if you've got one or both and it makes sense to not put points in static shock, then there are a number of other alternatives. Either way, I think a lot of talent choices as well as rotation choices are going to come down to how much int/mp5 are allocated to us in our stat breakdown at 80 as well as the mana cost of the optimal rotation. It may be that we are better serving the raid to use water shield rather than lightning shield with static shock in a raid environment.

 

Gurth999

If they want to give options they need to have competing dps talents. Right now the only real raiding options for replacing static shock are in another tree.

I don't really care either way, its not like static shock is exciting, but that could be said for the entire enhance tree.

 

• Toots Hepcat

Maelstrom Weapon, useful 1st tier talents, useful ED, int to AP conversion, faster, better strikes, useful lightning shield and better PvP anti-snare isn't exciting to you? How long have you been playing a shaman? These are all awesome things. Indeed, there are so many awesome things we won't be able to choose them all. We're looking at a 20-30% dps boost, plus added raid utility, plus some neat new mechanics.

What, were you expecting a Tier 7 talent, [Free Maserati]?

Ours is a hybrid class with tons of utility. We generally receive evolutionary changes rather than overhauls, because we don't need an overhaul. Ret paladins, warrior tanks, mages -- these guys need overhauls. We need a way to burn mana and be more flexible about gear and we got both.

Please, the analysis of the new talents has been great. Whining about them is childish and this is not the place. We are not the Blizzard designers. Neither are we their critics. Ours is to calculate, to simulate and to educate.

A clever idea, poorly analyzed, is cloaked stupidity.

 

Gurth999

Exciting to me isn't slightly larger numbers on the screen. I've been playing a shaman since before the original open beta.

Static shock isn't terrible dps, but it needs to be fully utilized or it's going to be pretty low value and I think that's very much on point of spell mechanics in discussing its usefulness with stormstrike.

 

Orlgin

Static Shock is pretty good. Remember, it gets charges EVERY time you deal damage. Shocks, Maelstrom Weapon powered spells, every melee hit, every stormstrike hit, every windfury hit.

There is a current thread involving Wind Serpents eating stormstrike charges you may want to look at. It details a lot of the math involved in deciding whether to use nature damage or not. There are a lot of factors involved. But think of it this way, the more nature sources are in a raid, the safer it is to use it.

Chances are, the stormstrike charges will be eaten pretty fast, which makes it unlikely static shock will eat much in the way of charges. Thus, it will gimp DPS if you don't take it.

 

Rounced

We don't know that. There is a very good chance that it will not proc from windfury hits at the very least, since I'm pretty sure the game is coded so that procs don't proc from other procs.

I ran my numbers on the assumption that it would not proc from windfury hits and even without that it is a significant source of dps that is worth the 3 point investment.

Only thing I want changed with that talent is to have it work with water shield as well.