Restoration WotLK Talents and Discussion - Page 13

Daidalos · 07/29/08, 2:42 AM

Originally Posted by Raglu

Truth of the matter is that the discussion about this really SHOULD be in the Enhancement shaman thread, because it's based off of dual-wield and subsequently raiding as a Enhancement shaman. Furthermore, isn't EJ going to focus on 10-mans more now because of the 10-man/25-man mirror of every dungeon? In a 10-man, healing as an enhancement shaman in a sticky situation DOES matter, and it's not laughable at all to consider one's options when doing that. Malan was just being thick-headed.

If you could, it'd be great if you tested it out on beta to see any increase in rate for dual-EL weapon.

In a very unscientific testing I put living weap on my vanirs and cast 16 times. If I got a living proc I made sure to wait for the hot to complete before casting again. In 16 casts 8 procced. The sample is small I know but this would indicate each weapon has a chance to proc independently.

Edit: did some additional testing seems to be hovering around the 40% chance to proc dual wielding,

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

That's quite a reversal in policy. Could our dedicated beta testers see if the number of charges of Earth Shield has changed? Or perhaps the amount healed? Can anyone confirm that it can still be dispelled? I hope if they doubled the mana cost we're getting something more out of Earth Shield.

EDIT: What are the new costs for these ranks?

Earth Shield (Rank 4) - 860 mana, 300 healing.
Earth Shield (Rank 5) - 1020 mana, 337 healing.

Just tried out the new build. No changes in mana cost number of charges or anything about being dispelled from what I can tell.

Really I don't notice anything new in this build other than icons and graphics for shamans talents/spells so far. Maybe someone else will notice something but I can't find any functional differences so far (other than mounts being broken).

Skyhoof · 07/29/08, 10:31 AM

Looks like Alchemy will continue to be a desirable profession for resto shaman in the expansion:

Alchemical Blood (passive): You receive an increased effect when you drink an elixir, potion, or flask that you can make.

Anyone in Beta know how much it increases the effect? Is it 40% like the current trinket?

EDIT: And given the new potion sickness debuff, it could become crucial to get as much mana back as possible from the one potion you can drink. It would appear that you can only use 1 potion during each fight and must get out of combat to get rid of the debuff.

Sprout · 07/29/08, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

Looks like Alchemy will continue to be a desirable profession for resto shaman in the expansion:

Alchemical Blood (passive): You receive an increased effect when you drink an elixir, potion, or flask that you can make.

Anyone in Beta know how much it increases the effect? Is it 40% like the current trinket?

EDIT: And given the new potion sickness debuff, it could become crucial to get as much mana back as possible from the one potion you can drink. It would appear that you can only use 1 potion during each fight and must get out of combat to get rid of the debuff.

The effect of AB is 33% to all pots and flasks.

I would be willing to bet large ammounts of money that if these are the only 2 changes that many other options will supplant alch as our best option. JC trinkets & BoP gems, ring enchants, LW BoP items, Inscription effects, even the gathering profession buffs (str for BS, crit for skinning, ?? for herb) will all be much nicer than 1-3k mana once per fight.

Assuming 2k additional mana from AB:

5 min fight: 30 mp5
10 min fight: 15 mp5
15 min fight: 5 mp5

Not complaining, I hate chain potting, its annoying, uses GCD's, and costs money. The change will also make tuning fights alot easier.

Its just that looking at how it sits today alchemy is pretty pointless for resto. Especially early in the xpac.

Talaus-Mok'Nathal · 07/29/08, 4:36 PM

Originally Posted by Sprout

The effect of AB is 33% to all pots and flasks.

I would be willing to bet large ammounts of money that if these are the only 2 changes that many other options will supplant alch as our best option. JC trinkets & BoP gems, ring enchants, LW BoP items, Inscription effects, even the gathering profession buffs (str for BS, crit for skinning, ?? for herb) will all be much nicer than 1-3k mana once per fight.

But you're also getting the 33% on flasks. Based on the lvl 70 flasks, that's 27 +healing for using a Flask of Blinding Light or 8 mp5 for Mighty Restoration. And the 80 flasks should be vastly superior to those. But you're right, until more data gets released we won't be able to make any decision yet. Hopefully we'll get an idea before it releases though, I really don't want to spend my first couple of days in WotLK leveling a new profession

.

Rhaegal · 07/29/08, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by Talaus-Mok'Nathal

But you're also getting the 33% on flasks. Based on the lvl 70 flasks, that's 27 +healing for using a Flask of Blinding Light or 8 mp5 for Mighty Restoration. And the 80 flasks should be vastly superior to those. But you're right, until more data gets released we won't be able to make any decision yet. Hopefully we'll get an idea before it releases though, I really don't want to spend my first couple of days in WotLK leveling a new profession

.

I wouldn't be too sure about the "vastly superior" bit. Certain consumables are notably not-much-better, and in some cases outright worse, in TBC than in vanilla WoW. [Brilliant Mana Oil] > [Superior Mana Oil] (same with wizard oils unless you're a shadow priest), [Flask of Pure Death] is only marginally better than [Flask of Supreme Power], the list goes on. I would expect some minor improvement in buff consumables like these, but probably only major leaps in effectiveness on health and mana potions, since their use is being restricted so much.

skizz · 07/29/08, 5:15 PM

Originally Posted by Sprout

The effect of AB is 33% to all pots and flasks.

I would be willing to bet large ammounts of money that if these are the only 2 changes that many other options will supplant alch as our best option. JC trinkets & BoP gems, ring enchants, LW BoP items, Inscription effects, even the gathering profession buffs (str for BS, crit for skinning, ?? for herb) will all be much nicer than 1-3k mana once per fight.

Where did you get the 33% from? My testing shows something significantly different.

Elixir of Healing Power gave me 30 healing (+25%) and 29 spirit (+~20.8%). Note that this elixir was changed to +24 spellpower and spirit, used to be +55 healing.
Elixir of Draenic Wisdom gave me 38 int (+~26.7%) and 35 spirit (+~16.7%).
Elixir of Major Mageblood gave me 22 mp5(+37.5%).
Extra elixir benefits were the same every single time.

After chugging 30 super mana pots I got an average return of 2488 mana, which isn't even a statistically significant amount over the expected average of 2400 mana. I did not have my alch stone equipped while drinking mana pots.

Currently flasks do not seem to receive ANY benefit from Alchemical Blood. I tried this with Mighty Restoration, Pure Death, Relentless Assault, and Chromatic Wonder.

Sprout · 07/29/08, 6:15 PM

Originally Posted by skizz

Where did you get the 33% from? My testing shows something significantly different.

Elixir of Healing Power gave me 30 healing (+25%) and 29 spirit (+~20.8%). Note that this elixir was changed to +24 spellpower and spirit, used to be +55 healing.
Elixir of Draenic Wisdom gave me 38 int (+~26.7%) and 35 spirit (+~16.7%).
Elixir of Major Mageblood gave me 22 mp5(+37.5%).
Extra elixir benefits were the same every single time.

After chugging 30 super mana pots I got an average return of 2488 mana, which isn't even a statistically significant amount over the expected average of 2400 mana. I did not have my alch stone equipped while drinking mana pots.

Currently flasks do not seem to receive ANY benefit from Alchemical Blood. I tried this with Mighty Restoration, Pure Death, Relentless Assault, and Chromatic Wonder.

My bad I misread something on the wow forums...stupid on 2 accounts (reading those forums and taking what they said at face value.)

Sorry.

Yadee · 07/29/08, 10:04 PM

I did not see this discussed anywhere, not on these forums nor on the mmo champ forums

"14:05 CEST - Mana and Energy regeneration have been changed, see the video"
(from mmo-champ front page)

They have changed mana regeneration to trickle in constantly, instead of in a chunk every 5 seconds.
The video is very short, and the hunter doesnt use any mana during it, but have they changed the "5 second rule" as well or just given the regen that would happen in the current game a more fluid rate of return ?

If there is no longer a 5 second rule, this could explain the rather big increases in WotLK spell mana costs

Shakes · 07/29/08, 10:15 PM

I think it's safe to assume there's still a 5 second rule, since there are still numerous talents that allow X% of your regen while casting.

Daidalos · 07/30/08, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Shakes

I think it's safe to assume there's still a 5 second rule, since there are still numerous talents that allow X% of your regen while casting.

On the beta char sheet you still have stats for mp5 while casting and not. Regen for all classes updates much more frequentty now however I do not think the actual regen mechanics have changed at all.

Oh and living weapon the coef seems to be about 1.98 with purification (purification does affect it at least on myself have not comfirmed on other targets) . With 1380 spell power it ticks for 281 per s for 12 s.

madrix · 07/31/08, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Daidalos

On the beta char sheet you still have stats for mp5 while casting and not. Regen for all classes updates much more frequentty now however I do not think the actual regen mechanics have changed at all.

Oh and living weapon the coef seems to be about 1.98 with purification (purification does affect it at least on myself have not comfirmed on other targets) . With 1380 spell power it ticks for 281 per s for 12 s.

Does there appear to be an internal cooldown on the HOT portion of living weapon? That is a pretty decent HOT for being free of mana cost and procing off of any heal.

Edit: I am figuring that the HOT portion will follow similar mechanics to the Fel Reaver Piston, in that the internal cooldown is approximately as long as the HOT itself, though this is not the case if more then one target can get the hot or if the hot refreshes itself.

Daidalos · 07/31/08, 4:32 PM

Originally Posted by madrix

Does there appear to be an internal cooldown on the HOT portion of living weapon? That is a pretty decent HOT for being free of mana cost and procing off of any heal.

Edit: I am figuring that the HOT portion will follow similar mechanics to the Fel Reaver Piston, in that the internal cooldown is approximately as long as the HOT itself, though this is not the case if more then one target can get the hot or if the hot refreshes itself.

I am unsure about a cooldown I will try to test more tonight. Yes the hot heals for a pretty decent amount more than I expected from a "free" hot. Since spell power is approx half what healing is I was expecting less than a traditional 1.0 coef for a 12s hot but its quite nice and fills in a rather big hole for us in pvp and high mobility raid situations. ALso I should note that the 330 amount listed on the tooltip appears to be incorrect. The amount appears to be closer to the 580 mark with 5/5 pur and 2/2 boe (not that boe really increases the hot amount much, but with living weapon on its impossible to test with 0 +healing due to the enchant itself).

Edit: Didn't really notice any sort of cooldown. If there is one, its very short. I refreshed the hot 2-3 s into it spamming heals several times.

madrix · 08/01/08, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Daidalos

I am unsure about a cooldown I will try to test more tonight. Yes the hot heals for a pretty decent amount more than I expected from a "free" hot. Since spell power is approx half what healing is I was expecting less than a traditional 1.0 coef for a 12s hot but its quite nice and fills in a rather big hole for us in pvp and high mobility raid situations. ALso I should note that the 330 amount listed on the tooltip appears to be incorrect. The amount appears to be closer to the 580 mark with 5/5 pur and 2/2 boe (not that boe really increases the hot amount much, but with living weapon on its impossible to test with 0 +healing due to the enchant itself).

Edit: Didn't really notice any sort of cooldown. If there is one, its very short. I refreshed the hot 2-3 s into it spamming heals several times.

Were you able to test using multiple jumping chain heals? Without much of a cooldown, this just increases the effectiveness of our chain healing ability that much more (if it is capable of hitting multiple targets and procing off each arc).

Good testing though. Nice to know it's a great weapon buff.

Skyhoof · 08/01/08, 10:36 AM

With the change to spell power, it looks like Wrath of Air will provide a greater benefit to healers. Currently, it's +101 damange/healing. There's normally a 2:1 ratio for healing to damage. For example +81 healing to weapon or +40 spell damage. I've always thought this totem should have been +101 spell damage and +202 healing.

If the totem changes to +101 spell power and we assume that 1 spell power = 2 healing, then it would seem to provide a bigger boost to healers. For example, if I currently have +2000 healing, the totem boosts me to +2100 healing. In WoTLK, if I had +1000 spell power, I would get +1100 spell power. It's a 10% increase vs. a 5% increase. Correct me if I don't have the mechanics correct. Are there new ranks of this totem? Otherwise by the time we get to level 80 it might once again be providing a 5% increase. WTB Beta key.

Iod · 08/01/08, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

With the change to spell power, it looks like Wrath of Air will provide a greater benefit to healers. Currently, it's +101 damange/healing. There's normally a 2:1 ratio for healing to damage. For example +81 healing to weapon or +40 spell damage. I've always thought this totem should have been +101 spell damage and +202 healing.

If the totem changes to +101 spell power and we assume that 1 spell power = 2 healing, then it would seem to provide a bigger boost to healers. For example, if I currently have +2000 healing, the totem boosts me to +2100 healing. In WoTLK, if I had +1000 spell power, I would get +1100 spell power. It's a 10% increase vs. a 5% increase. Correct me if I don't have the mechanics correct. Are there new ranks of this totem? Otherwise by the time we get to level 80 it might once again be providing a 5% increase. WTB Beta key.

As I recall, they were changing Wrath of Air to be a caster Haste totem, and Flametongue totem was going to be the spellpower totem. I've no idea what the spellpower benefit is (or whether it'd require you to drop Earthliving imbue).

Galirn · 08/01/08, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

With the change to spell power, it looks like Wrath of Air will provide a greater benefit to healers. Currently, it's +101 damange/healing. There's normally a 2:1 ratio for healing to damage. For example +81 healing to weapon or +40 spell damage. I've always thought this totem should have been +101 spell damage and +202 healing.

If the totem changes to +101 spell power and we assume that 1 spell power = 2 healing, then it would seem to provide a bigger boost to healers. For example, if I currently have +2000 healing, the totem boosts me to +2100 healing. In WoTLK, if I had +1000 spell power, I would get +1100 spell power. It's a 10% increase vs. a 5% increase. Correct me if I don't have the mechanics correct. Are there new ranks of this totem? Otherwise by the time we get to level 80 it might once again be providing a 5% increase. WTB Beta key.

Wrath of Air won't be a +spellpower thing, it's a +spell haste from what I've read... Unless they've changed it since.

Daidalos · 08/01/08, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

With the change to spell power, it looks like Wrath of Air will provide a greater benefit to healers. Currently, it's +101 damange/healing. There's normally a 2:1 ratio for healing to damage. For example +81 healing to weapon or +40 spell damage. I've always thought this totem should have been +101 spell damage and +202 healing.

If the totem changes to +101 spell power and we assume that 1 spell power = 2 healing, then it would seem to provide a bigger boost to healers. For example, if I currently have +2000 healing, the totem boosts me to +2100 healing. In WoTLK, if I had +1000 spell power, I would get +1100 spell power. It's a 10% increase vs. a 5% increase. Correct me if I don't have the mechanics correct. Are there new ranks of this totem? Otherwise by the time we get to level 80 it might once again be providing a 5% increase. WTB Beta key.

You are correct in reasoning but its now flametongue totem that provides spell power. Wrath of air is now 10% spell haste.

I'll list totems as they are currently (those that are dif than live):
Windfury totem: 16% melee haste (can be talented to 20%)
Wrath of Air totem: 10% spell haste
Stoneskin totem: Increases armor (I think my lvl 70 rank of this increases armor by 860.. could be totally wrong though... no coffee and 3 hours sleep)
Flametongue totem: Increases spell power by 25 (I think its bugged atm. I seem to remeber the tooltip and the effect not matching. I think the tooltip said like increases pell power by 70 or some such)
Strength of Earth totem: Now increases str and agi by 88
Grace of Air: <removed from game>
2/2 Imp fire nova totem: Now has a 100% chance to apply a slow effect
Healing Stream and mana Spring functinalites are not changed (other than being raidwide I think) however they are both using the mana tide animation and sound which is somewhat annoying (the sound is a bug and will be fixed)

Gromag · 08/01/08, 11:30 AM

As I recall, they were changing Wrath of Air to be a caster Haste totem, and Flametongue totem was going to be the spellpower totem. I've no idea what the spellpower benefit is (or whether it'd require you to drop Earthliving imbue).

I believe that Flametongue is currently at +73 Spellpower, though this may seem like a nerf compaired to the old WoA, it will ofc now stack with the new WoA (+10% Haste) so casters will come out of having a Shammy around better than before.

Also I think it pretty safe to assume that you can't have 2x Weapon Enhancements on the same weapon, so you'll have to choose between Flametongue and Earthliving... this choice shouldn't be very difficult to make.

Daidalos · 08/01/08, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Gromag

I believe that Flametongue is currently at +73 Spellpower, though this may seem like a nerf compaired to the old WoA, it will ofc now stack with the new WoA (+10% Haste) so casters will come out of having a Shammy around better than before.

Also I think it pretty safe to assume that you can't have 2x Weapon Enhancements on the same weapon, so you'll have to choose between Flametongue and Earthliving... this choice shouldn't be very difficult to make.

First of all 73 spell power would in fact be a buff since our healing coefs aprrox doubled with the change to spell power making something like ~150 +healing on live (although it is a nerf to dps casters). It is however currently bugged and not working as tooltip states. Secondly I don't think flametongue totem is meant to be a weapon enchant (I can't remember if it currently acts like one). I think its safe to assume you won't have to choose between living weap and flametongue. I'll test this tonight and I'll report a bug/suggestion in the beta forums if they do not stack.

I also made a suggestion for a change to imp water shield asking for it to increase the number of charges or perferrably have it regen charges for each time you consume one due to a crit.

Gromag · 08/01/08, 12:17 PM

It is however currently bugged and not working as tooltip states. Secondly I don't think flametongue totem is meant to be a weapon enchant (I can't remember if it currently acts like one). I think its safe to assume you won't have to choose between living weap and flametongue. I'll test this tonight and I'll report a bug/suggestion in the beta forums if they do not stack.

My bad! You are quite right that Flametongue Totem is no longer meant a weapon enhancement!

So presumably it is quite possible to stack Flametongue, Earthliving and WoA... hmmmm, nice!

Ana · 08/01/08, 3:39 PM

Shaman glyph thread has started since a blue posted in priest forums that they are taking suggestions. Anyone is welcome to post glyph ideas and I'd be happy to post them in the beta forums for you!