Muggins

There's a couple of changes to prot as well, imp shield block is now 20 sec reduction and Stalwart Protector has gone.

Now back to drooling over fury......

 

Blakadder

AT LAST! Justice has finally been done to fury i can see one or two tweaks need doing but it looks solid. and we still havent seen warrior Glyphs!

ok enough drool from me, i would like to see the communities opinion on this tree

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12053112501351

Assuming cleave can now replace heroic strike with rage efficiency and heroic leap used as an escape ability ( lose target look and leap to escape), furious attacks to remove need for wound poison from rogues and the new cycle being the same as current fury cycle but using enraged assault whereever possible to maximise usage of bloodthirst.

 

Lithose

Passive MS for fury, wow..I mean, arms is really good now, but I don't see how it can eclipse fury..With heroic leap, fury's mobility it nearly as good. Its special also heals for a sizable amount, it has a reduction in the cool down of our fear break, DW ect...

I mean, the arms changes are very nice, but intensify rage seems almost required when you couple it with improved zerk rage..Thats 20 rage, every 20 seconds, on demand, with fear immunity. Not to mention 20 rage every 40 seconds from blood rage, and DW on a 1:20 cool down (This is even taking into account hunters being able to dispel these affects.)

Edit-If I did want to keep MS, for the more reliable MS effect..I think I would go with a spec like this.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12250020000000

As amazing as deep arms is now, the abilities fury gives you, such as disarm protection, more rage on demand, DW, flurry ect is just still too good to pass up..I mean, they did some great buffs, but they buffed fury enough to make it even more attractive. Though, I will say, the rend to overpower was a smart change, making rend required, making battle stance useful and improving DPS all in one swoop is pretty awesome. (I can actually see arms warriors DPSing in battle now.)

 

Borodin

The one thing I still can't find is the new Thunderclap damage value to go with the 50% cooldown increase.

 

Tornaz

Do the Orc and Troll racials count as Enrage effects for the purposes of Enraged Assault and Rend vulnerability?

 

Zegai

Seeing the fury changes I look forward to prot changes that aren't nerfs.

Well, did they change anything in tclap aside from the cooldown so as not to call this patch a total loss for prot?

 

Faeviactus

So looking at the new fury tree, I am very excited. As was said this is a lot of what we really needed. So I played with it and I think I came up with a decent pve/pvp hybrid with a stronger focus on pve.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12053112501051

I didn't take blood surge, just couldn't quite figure out to work it with the rest of what I was trying to do. I probably could drop 3 points in 2 handed spec, just don't know the number crunching on that.

The arms tree I picked up mostly pvp talents just to round things out, and obviously took that passive MS effect for good measure. I think this would perform well in both environs.

Also bloodfrenzy took a nerf it seems. Half as effective now. Which makes MS slightly less competitive for that raid spot.

 

Zaroua

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000 with 2 points left for either Second Wind, Justified Killing or Tactical Mastery; or only put 1 point in Unrelenting Assault and 3 points in TM

Rend > TC > Demo > Mortal Strike > Zerk Stance WW > Enraged Assault >
And that's where the fun begins, if Enraged Assault procs iMS, you MS in Zerk Stance, if EA doesn't proc iMS then you hope for a TfB proc to Overpower (you will have your second Rend tick at this point) or if all else fails, use Slam/Enraged Assault depending on Wrecking Crew, Berserker Rage or Blood Rage (depending on how EA works, that is). After that you stay in Zerk Stance until you get a TfB proc or until you need to refresh Rend/Tclap/Demo.
Then the rotation just continues with MS > Filler > Filler > Filler > MS, the fillers being Enraged Assault (EA), Rend, TC, Demo, WW, Slam, Overpower and Sunder Armor. Obviously TC/Demo/Sunder can be taken out as fillers depending on raid set-up. The rotation obviously resets itself on a iMS proc from EA and it demands a lot of attention, but it certainly seems like it would make playing a Warrior more involved.

Now the real questions: how does this build/playstyle scale with crit% and rolling Deep Wounds? How does Haste affect Wrecking Crew uptime and how does it work with Enraged Assault eating up the Wrecking Crew. How do Rend and Overpower play with each other in terms or DPS and how do they play with Wrecking Crew and Enraged Assault? Keep in mind that more Taste For Blood procs means more Overpower crits which means more Wrecking Crew procs which means more Enraged Assaults which means more Mortal Strikes. How does this all work with using WW in a rotation or does it make WW obsolete with enough crit%?

This opens a lot of discussion for Arms raiding, especially since Trauma is still as juicy as ever for your Rogues, Feral Druids and the other Warriors (getting a Prot Warrior with a Feral Druid and Fury Warrior for Deep Wounds, anyone?) and even if Blood Frenzy is nerfed, it is still quite decent especially if Arms receives a substantial personal DPS increase like it seemingly did today.

If a Druid specs Moonkin in Darnassus, do the trainers still laugh at him?

 

Mild Confusion

I really hope the arms changes are not done yet, bladestorm is still weak in my opinion. You still have to sacrifice 50% reduced disarm for it. The mace change is fucking horrible. If they want to take the stun away, fine, but at least more than 10 rage. Where is the arms burst? Enraged assault is still 15 rage with a 10 second cooldown. Plus 30 rage MS and hamstring and rend now in a pvp rotation, where are we gonna get all this rage for an extra MS? Not including the immense amount of stance dancing to break fear with only zerker rage and going to rend/overpower. Sudden death is thrown way out the window currently.

The fury changes are really nice though, they really did a number on that tree. MS, fixed the god awful micro managing of rampage, buffed the hell outta titans grip, and it has a huge burst potential, better cooldown on fear break, and reduced rage costs. Very nice for both pvp and pve.

 

Xai

Deathwish is up to 3 min cd from 2 min. So a bit of a talent sink there, provided you take that over shifting some pts for a titan grip / impale / incite build.

 

DarthGreg

Do LotP and new Rampage stack? Would suck to have it invalidated by having a Feral around, especially as it's currently functioning as a pretty decent rage dump and self-buff.

 

mistersix

Stalwart Protector has basically turned into Justified Killing and moved over to the arms tree.

I was thinking of 19/0/52 myself. It's funny, it feels so weird not having cruelty and I was always hesitant about stalwart protector but for some reason justified killing is really appealing to me.

 

Alaron

Looking at those new trees, almost every complaint that I had about them (or suggestion that I made on the beta forums) was addressed. Both trees actually look pretty damn impressive in their own right now, though I'm sure there might be some more balance passes before release.

With the major arms revamp, it looks like it will be a much more interesting and engaging tree to play. With rend procing the ability to overpower with a +50% crit rate, crits giving the 15% damage enrage buff for 12 sec, enraged assault consuming this enrage buff for an instant attack, and enraged assault refreshing your MS cooldown, I can see the potential for some very fun and brutal chains and spikes.

There is one change that I'm a little concerned about though. I do indeed like the fact that rend procing the ability to overpower makes battle stance an attractive stance for arms, and makes selective stance dancing an interesting concept. However, with a 30% proc chance every 3 seconds, this seems to greatly INCREASE the reliance on the RNG, which (as mentioned above) is often considered a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong, I think that it will definately make the tree a lot more interactive, which to me is more fun. However, a lucky string of procs with the cooldown talent could result in some pretty hefty spike damage with an overpower every 3 seconds and with other specials like MS, WW, and enraged assault woven between them.

 

Ultramax

New rampage is passive. No idea on stacking.

 

Bitesize

Was always 3 minutes. With talents it's now DOWN to 2 minutes, which is of course delicious.

I'd say they almost certainly do not stack. It follows the trend they've been doing with other spec-specific raid buffs (enhancement shaman buffs -> death knights). Whether you have a feral druid or a fury warrior, it's easier to assume that all raids will have the 5% crit buff.

 

Alaron

Well, first off, they have stated that prot changes are still in the works, so I'm not sure how relevant putting together prot builds are at the moment. That said, I do have a quick comment.

Personally, having raided extensively as both a mage and a warrior, I don't think I would want deep wounds in a tanking build. Granted, the duration is reduced now, but random bleeds (however infrequent crits might be as prot) can still cause a bit of a pain in the ass, especially since I'm very aggressive with my tanking style.

 

Xai

Whoops. Didn't notice it got moved to a 3 min buff somewhere along the line (assuming back when they swapped it with ss).

 

Alaron

Something for someone in the beta to test out. If I rend multiple targets, does overpower light up only for the specific target whose rend ticked (as I seem to recall that it does only for the target that actually dodged), or is it for all of the targets? Another possibility is that I just out to lunch and confused about how the mechanic works since I haven't played in months?

 

Grayson Carlyle

For anyone using Furious Attacks in a Titan's Grip build for a raid debuff; more than one point is a waste of a point.
2 * ~3.5s weapons swinging 25% faster is pretty much a guarantee to proc a 50% chance in 8s. I imagine PvP would be different.

 

mistersix

I favor aggressive builds as well for the most part which is way dumping cruelty felt weird to me but 6 rage per parry is very enticing. Definitely eager for the prot changes to make there way through.

 

Prinsesa

On live, you're not obliged to use Overpower/Revenge on the same target that procced it. If that's any indication, you should be able to Overpower anyone regardless of who the Rend ticked on.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63815BffMm.png

 

Darmon

As far as protection goes, it just took a big hit.

Shield block each 1 min, talented to 40 sec, just to double block everything for 5 seconds. In this form, can just delete it from warrior skills. Only problem left is Revenge, which can't be reliable used on each cooldown, at least till getting back to full epic gear loaded with avoidance.

Thunderclap going from 4 sec to 6 sec cd. AoE threat for Non prot warriors just went down.

No more talent to gain rage from dodge/parry. There is one to gaine rage from parry deep in arms tree.

 

Zerai

As far as I know, if I whirlwind and someone dodges it, I can overpower them, but not my current target. This was changed quite awhile ago. You used to be able to overpower anyone regardless of who dodges. Unless it changed back without my noticing.

I would agree with you but for a different reason. First. Your deep wound with a 1h isn't going to be ticking for that much. I think the better point use would be imp rend. With the damage scale it is getting + prot gear getting strength...rend is going to be a pretty good damage move.

Trying to build a fury pvp build but running out of points. Too many good options. Which is good I guess. But annoying =x

 

PSGarak

Blizzard did basically say this was the army/fury patch, not the warrior patch. Tanking trees sound like they're going to balanced when raid content is more fleshed out.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....88847noszh.png

 

Emeraude