Lasie

That is an interesting idea. Plus, it would solve the problems about people complaining about ArP being "overpowered" against casters in PvE...

Though, given that percentage buffs combine multiplicatively rather then additive like ArP is now, would raid buffs end up working out the same? Seems like it would require a pretty substantial change in the way ArP buffs work.

 

Liar

Good changes over all. Only thing I have a problem with is that we lost 4% Strength from the new Vitality if MMO-Champion is right (reduced to 3 ranks, +2%Str/Sta per point) though atleast we got our Expertise back.

Also, is it really true that they are going to reitemize our tanking sets for 3.0? That would be quite bad for people like me that are still working on SWP because the item budget of Strength has to be pulled from somewhere, so we'll have a net loss of Avoidance/Health on Sunwell/T6 pieces. :S

And lasty:Did anyone check if Execute got changed as well? It seems to be the only sub 20% skill left now if not.

Protection Warrior PvP video | Unexpected TankPoints error

 

Gellor

From a prot point of view some of the warrior glyphs listed seem incredibly powerful, providing better increases than talents in some cases (glyph of devastate, 2 sunders for the price of one).

There is also a nice variation on glyphs to either enhance single target DPS, or enhance AOE threat, which provides a nice amount of customisation to prot warriors beyond talent choices.

And for DPS Viva la HS spam!!!
Glyph of Heroic Strike - You gain 10 rage when you critically strike with your Heroic Strike ability.

Beta certainly seems to be a rollercoaster ride for warriors. Let's see what else is in store.

 

Gellor

MMO Champion still has it as 20%, although an obvious quick and easy fix to bring it inline would be to alter the imp execute talent in fury to 27/35%.

Yes they did, not had a chance to compare the differences though:

http://www.tankspot.com/photoplog/im...ewtankgear.jpg

 

• Gink

@ Liar:

Post 58

Edit: Beaten.

Gink

 

Legaia

Execute is still only useable on targets below 20% health in the beta. I suppose the idea of increasing this through talents or on the base skill would be nice .

 

Tornaz

While true, I suspect that the reason for this change is that we'll now be getting 6% of quite a lot more strength. If it were still 10%, it might be a little overpowered.

 

Gellor

Glyph of Devastate - Your Devastate ability now applies two stacks of Sunder Armor.

Is it me or is this glyph incredibly powerful? I mean it pretty much negates the need for any talent points in puncture, enabling much more diverse builds, and also pushes the threat generated by devastate massively.

 

• Gink

I also wonder how that one will work with Glyph of Sunder Armor.
Would it apply 2x Sunder on the second target as well?

Gink

 

Liar

I am not happy about this at all. I compared 8 pieces from Live with the 3.0 versions and lost around 7.2% avoidance and 2 Expertise skill for a bunch of Strength that is supposed to make up for our threat going down when 3.0 hits. That's only 8 pieces by the way, and there are 14 slots where a conversion will occur (basically all slots but our tanking weapons (I think) and trinkets) so I can probably add another 4% on top of that for a net loss of 11%.
Is anyone really going to argue with me if I say that losing 11% for pretty much nothing to show for it (no, increase AP/BV is not going to make up for it at all) is going to make it harder for guilds in my position to progress for absolutely no reason but that Blizzards wants to push out 3.0?

The only hope I have left is that they will just forgo all the threat changes in 3.0 and keep things as they are for tanks so it does not interfere with Live raiding. They can do the gear changes when Wrath hits because at that point noone will be raiding anyway.

And the day started so good as well. :/

Protection Warrior PvP video | Unexpected TankPoints error

 

Gellor

Well maybe they will do away with the Sunwell radiance. I mean that's one of the main points of itemisation changes in WotLK, to stop passive avoidance getting to high, making the radiance obsolete (hopefully).

You're also looking at this from a tanking perpective only. Look at all the new juciy talents healers are getting (the shaman talent spirit link for example), dps will be going up as well, so fights will presumbly be that much shorter as well.

 

Borodin

I don't agree right now I see this Glyph as a minor one which simply cuts down the time taken to reach 5 Sunders (the threat of your first 2 Devastates are indeed boosted significantly by a whole Sunder and further the extra Sunder count bonus damage and threat). At level 70 this adds 316 Threat and 35 damage to your first 2 Sunders.

But once your at 5 Sunders this glyph does nothing because at the cap Sunders are no longer applied, the timer is just refreshed. This has been exhaustively tested and proven.

The order of operations for Devastate is essentialy (using numbers from the L70 version):

1. Obtain Sunder Count (Max. 5)
2. If Sunder Count < 5 cast Sunder Armour, else refresh Sunder Armour debuff duration.
3. Apply 35 x Sunder Count bonus damage and 15 x Sunder Count bonus threat (this means your very first Devastate gains bonus threat and damage because the Sunder is applied before-hand).

I feel this glyph needs blue clarification and possibly a rework because outside trash it becomes redundant in your first cycle.

However vs trash it's very good because you often only have time to Devastate 1-3 times per target.

 

Liar

Yes and no. DPS gear will still have the same relative amount of Strength so it's a DPS nerf.


We are working on M'uru where Sunwell Radiance is already disabled and where avoidance pretty much shines. So yeah. :S

Protection Warrior PvP video | Unexpected TankPoints error

 

Gellor

But surely even when its at 5 sunders, your devastate will still be getting the innate threat of 2 sunders applied per devastate. The glyph description seems fairly unambiguous in its statement.

 

Parbag

T6 Defense Items got changed also, see here:



[Onslaught Boots] [Gauntlets of Enforcement] [Faceplate of the Impenetrable]



[Sword Breaker's Bulwark]

 

Gellor

Heh still working on felmyst so i wouldn't know. But think of all the new shiny abilities your healers will have access too.

 

Borodin

It won't because the Devastate code just does not allow 2 or even 1 "Sunder stack" to cast when 5 Sunders are present.

If you read the Devastate tooltip now it says "causes the Sunder Armour effect" but what it does not tell you is that this only holds true until 5 Sunders when the "effect" is simply to refresh not recast, as described in my previous post.
You get no Sunder threat after the 5th Devastate - your 5th Devastate is actually your biggest threat Devastate (over 1K usually) but subsequent Devastates lose that 301 Sunder threat.

If this Glyph overrides that code then it would indeed be OP as with Level 70 Live values your stacked Devastates would gain +602 Threat from the 2 Sunders alone (remember in Live it's not casting even 1 Sunder at the cap) . Given that fully stacked Devastate currently does in the region of 700 Threat I am crying "no way".

I agree the Glyph does not tell you the above but neither does the Devastate tooltip and I suspect the majority of players are unaware of precisely how Devastate works because of that tooltip. Intuition tells you that it will keep adding +301 Sunder threat as using Sunder Armour itself would - but it does not work that was as it would have made Devastate simply too good.

 

Gellor

Thanks for the update about Devastate. I must admit I didn't know that. You'd think they'd fix that. Fixing that alone would go a long way to improving warrior threat in live.

EDIT: I'm curious if there is anyway to "abuse" this glyph. i.e maintaining a high amount of TPS without using devastate, until it falls off then spamming devastate again back upto 5 sunders, as the TPS on devastate's with this glyph should pretty much outstrip anything else we have in our armoury, when sunders <5.

 

nfw

I thought that was one of the lesser useful ones. It only matters at the beginning of a fight, and one still needs to spam devastate as usual.

 

Zegai

The question to me is more if the glyph of sunder will be applied to devastate thatn about the devastate glyph itself.

Right now I'd use, probably:
Glyph of Shield Slam - Increases your block value by 10% for 10 sec after using your Shield Slam ability.
Glyph of Sunder Armor - Your Sunder Armor ability affects a second nearby target. (possibly)
Glyph of Revenge - After using Revenge, your next Heroic Strike costs no rage.
Glyph of Resonating Power - Increases the maximum targets affected by your Thunder Clap ability by 4.
Glyph of Heroic Strike - You gain 10 rage when you critically strike with your Heroic Strike ability.

Assuming the Heroic Strike and one of the others are minor, possibly the Intervene one or some other.. not sure.

The Shield Slam and the Resonating Power are incredibly powerful tho. However, they really need to fix the % scaling on BV from STR (or has it been fixed already?).

 

Efreet

T6 shoulders are pretty much worthless now, Legs and Chest losing more than they gained, Gloves slightly improved, but in general you are correct. I don't think 3.0 is going to be pushed out however, it may still take in excess of 2 months and there may be various Sunwell nerfs attached to get more random people killing KJ, might even be say a straight nerf to Brutallus' damage output since that seems to be the biggest impact of the itemization change.

 

nfw

Interesting, it could mean one of two things, 1) we won't see much +hit on tanking gear like the Sunwell stuff, or 2) taunt will still have a 17% base resist rate (the hit cap of 9% + 8% = 17%)

 

Ivanstone

The big problem is that Blizz was a bit ham-fisted with the change. The original 5 T6 pieces weren't exactly well-itemized to begin with but at least had good survival stats on them. The gloves got a net buff since they chose to remove the Block Rating and shift it into Strength. Even then this reveals a small problem. Live Handguards have 5 stats on them and Blizzards itemization formula rewards items with more diverse stats. In this case we lose 27 Block Rating to gain 18 Strength because the gloves now only use 4 stats. A similar shift happened to the Helmet but its arguably a net loss because of the Agility to Strength shift.

Looking at the Pally set, I can't help but feel a little shafted. Lightbringer has substantially more Strength, a by product of combining the Intellect and Spell Damage, and still more Avoidance. Onslaught has lots of Block Rating instead.

Its a little silly to be complaining about it since it will all be obsolete soon enough but nevertheless Blizzard was a bit sloppy in the change, something that they should avoid doing if they are going to be selling this new tanking paradigm.