• Playered

Wowhead hasn't updated beta info yet from what I can tell, but it is rather weird that they are making differences to the last ranks of these abilities regarding cast time and durations.

Still a 19.5 sec Rejuvenation is nothing to look down on as it frees up a hefty chunk of time - however if the final rank lasts an extra tick naturally does this mean the ticks are weaker than the previous rank?

 

Starfox

HoTs and DoTs scale always to the same 'per second' basis, with 15seconds as base.
So each TICK gets a bonus of 1/5th of your spellpower (no matter how much ticks, for 3s-tick ones, don't know how lifebloom scales with it's 1s ticks), so a 15 rejuvenation is just a flat 25% increase in mana efficiency, but still the same hps

Hello.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
Light the fuse.

 

Kathbrian

I think the question was more focused around base amounts. I.e. 1352 over 12 with three seconds = 338 per tick or 112.66 HPS, but 1352 over 15 seconds with three seconds is 270 per tick and 90 HPS.

 

Fallenangel

It seems like the current concern coming from the beta for resto druids is that the number of stats we scale by is relatively small (this is also an issue that bears are facing). Haste has no effect on our 2 main hots, as well as on nature-graced nourishes. Crit suffers from the same problems, along with the high baseline critrate of regrowth. Barring the introduction of new healing-affecting stats, we're left with +spellpower as the only bonus that improves our healing capabilities across the board. This is reminisce of the situation trees faced prior to 2.4, with +heal being the holy grail for gearing.
Looking at blue level 80 gear, using the pieces with spirit and spellpower seems like the natural choice, and it's a decent one. However, going deeper into heroics and raid-instances, we can assume to find gear with more stats on it, much like the current SWP gear - for instance, tacking on some haste. Even if gear with just spellpower and spirit exists in raid zones, it will be subpar compared to more evened-out pieces due to the itemization formula.
This shows a major issue with the gear unification that Blizzard is trying to achieve in WotLK. While spellpwoer is attractive to casters and healers alike, none of the other stats are desireable by both specs. Even a basic stat like spirit has greatly varying value from class to class and from spec to spec.
It seems like there are 2 simple solutions to this. Either add talents to convert from stat to stat, or make stats more globally beneficial. For haste this would mean either allowing spell gcd to be below 1 second, or changing GotEM to not bring the gcd all the way to 1 second. For crit, a patch solution can be allowing HoTs to crit on a per-tick basis. This will make hots work like +heal effective are proccing all the time. While it doesn't really line up with the constant healing stream mindset that druids use, the effect won't be as pronunced. This is because LB ticks every second, thus the probability of an unlucky crit streak in a given time frame is smaller. Another way to look at it - the variance in the healing throughput is smaller. This change would also solve the problem affliction locks face with the same stat.

A note regarding cast times: remember that the initial ranks of HT have a lower cast time. So it's technically possible that the final rank, which is the rank we care about, was improved. Similarly, different ranks of spells have varying %-of-base-mana costs.

 

Anaram

I tried rejuvenation glyph. It currently only gives 50% more healing to rejuvenation when target is below 50% (but not to any other healing spell). This healing is implemented such that there's a actually a separate healing effect immediately following the normal rejuvenation tick which heals for 50% of what rejuvenation does. This is a rather clunky mechanic so wouldn't be surprised if it changed (if only to incorporate the additional 50% into rejuvenation).

I'm thinking there might be a catch to regrowth idol (such as only affecting base healing value). If there isn't it'll probably get changed though.

 

• Playered

That's rather sad, I was hoping that you might be able to pull off some beefy RJ-SM combos on low health targets with this.


Gift of the Earthmother isn't working off Flourish as it stands either.

 

Eilt

The new talents look pretty nice, lifebloom lasts 30% longer, plus an extra second from the glyph. It looks as if they are letting us apply HoTs and still cast some direct heals around, I am glad there is a full resto alternative to 61 points into resto (or 71 if you will).

 

Anaram

As things currently stand I'm personally quite happy with restoration healing. There are, however, two major problems still.

Firstly, haste scaling has been wrecked again with 1.0 sec global cooldown on hots with talents. I think it's not necessarily a bad design that haste isn't particularly valuable for hots, but it would be nice to get some stat other than +healing which works well.

Secondly, flourish targeting is still very clunky. Currently it picks lowest HP targets within range which tends to translate to bloodworms, pets etc. making it essentially useless for raid healing in a large number of situations.

 

manatee

I don't know, looking at the skills, I find flourish pretty useless to pick, picks 4 targets in 15 yards range of your target and HoT em up, it's a nice aoe heal for non intense aoe fights, but seriously, an intense fight would require quick healing, which atm comes in the form of chain heal, CoH and PoH, getting another class who can aoe heal like this in a raid is nice, but not neccesary. I find gotem pretty useless, since gear is pretty much stacked with haste which reduces gcd down to 1sec and not below, so why reduce it with talents. they put replenish, yay, the only targets atm I have rejuv's nonstop on are the tanks, and ffs, when's the last time your tank ever lacked rage in raids?

I find the critbuild of regrowth's very appealing, even more then the 1.0 sec HT spamming build, due to the hot ability, which still allows you to insta-mend instead of another 1.0 sec cast on the target, allows multi target healing easier.

(atleast on the patch I know I won't be going deep to get flourish, I'll stick with http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000, on wotlk I still wait to see the final use of HT inscription compared to regrowth's inscription and other stuffs)

 

• Playered

The HT Glyph is intended for pre-80 use, it is amongst the earliest available Glyphs to craft and not around the 350+ range which some others are - I was hoping that there would be some top end Glyph which helped this spell out.. but there isn't and it's wrong to think of this current Glyph as that.

It essentially allows you to have Nourish-X until you hit 80 and can get the real version (you then replace the Glyph as you don't need it now) - at the cost of a mostly useless spell, unless you are in need of the panic button - maybe for Arena or high end Raiding.

As the higher ranks of Flourish are not available no one can really compare how it would work out in today's standards - but without downranking there might be less senseless CoH & CH spam due to the exorbitant costs associated with them which allows you to use it well.
Heck it would be downright amazing on almost all bosses in Sunwell for the pure amount of healing 1 GCD can provide while doing other things. I'm certain it would get randomly thrown around on Felmyst and Twins for example, regardless of the current situation however it wont get spammed like CoH & CH.
Without the knowledge of how encounters are going to work in WoTLK it is hard to say how it will pan out.. but CoH was not amazing at the start of TBC and part of that (read: not all of it, just a contributing factor) was down to the encounters not really giving it a good setting.


Replenish was an awesome function of the T3 set - so many people begged for you to keep it on them and it helped provide an incentive for its use. Normally I would throw a LB on a LT'ing Warlock - perhaps with Replenish I would now use RJ.
There is also an interesting situation where right now RJ is a 15 second base duration at the highest rank, with talents putting it at 19.5 sec which combined with a 1.0 GCD for the spell lets you keep it up on more people with less compromises.

 

grutak

I have a question about the new 15 second RJ. How do the ticks work at 19.5 second duration? If 15 seconds is 5 ticks, is 19.5 seconds 6 ticks, 6.5(reduced last tick) ticks, or 7 ticks(final tick when the spell fades)? If its just 6 ticks, is the last 1.5 seconds of duration swiftmend fodder?

 

manatee

I see about the HT glyph, that's new to me .


I agree that it's hard to predict how it would end up as CoH was hard to predict back at tbc's release, and yes I have a priest and druid 70s and I know how useless coh was, used to wander with the BR pvp abuse spec or the usual spirit buffer, only at late BT I started to see priests starting to get their CoH in use atlast, making it a pretty necessary spell there.

About the Replenish, I dunno, won't be glad to become a manabattary, we've got spriests rpallies and shunters to do it for us, at T3 content we did not have lifebloom which is at this moment our main source of healing (would probably change in wotlk but who knows ~), at this moment I see no reason for a druid to put 3 into this talent, when there are so other attractive stuff in our tree (and yes I know it's full of happy things that would probably get changed, we all do, but for now-hell no) to use rejuv, atm I have 2 occasions of using rejuv, MT heal stacking, 3LBs and rejuv 100% uptime added to regrowth to top if needed, or swiftmending low hp targets fast, so the rejuv-mend combo comes in mind, where ticks arent handy. I dunno, with LB introduced I pretty much lost use in rejuv, maybe blizz are intending to make LB a useless spell, or nerfing it to the bottom, making rejuv better for the same purpose, but still, that aint something we can predict .

 

Anaram

With current restoration specs, rejuvenation is a very strong rival for lifebloom for any application other than rolling on tank. It doesn't cost much more and with top rank having a talented duration of 19.5, that means 6.5 ticks resulting in significantly better coefficient than lifebloom. Depending on how replenish is counted, that's either 0.90, 0.975 or 1.05 average procs per application. Unlike lifebloom, it's possible to swiftmend rejuvenation. Rejuvenation currently is extremely close to being pretty much neutral on mana - the amount generated by possible procs is close equal to the cost of the spell. Rejuvenation is indeed so efficient that I suspect it might get changed (I think 15 sec base duration was internally implemented before +30% duration talent).

Recent builds even attribute lifebloom final heal to the casting druid which "might" mean that it's no longer possible to avoid healing threat by using lifebloom.

 

Kathbrian

Lifebloom always has the benefit of being faster, Rejuv is often overhealed by FoL pallies and CHeal shamans.

 

Anaram

I'm not sure a two ticks of lifebloom (~600 health) are really significant. That's how much lifebloom heals before the third tick which is when rejuvenation also heals. After 3 seconds rejuvenation has healed more than lifebloom after 4 sec, at 5 sec lifebloom pulls ahead again to be left behind until the end starting from 6th tick. Overall at any point in time before 15 seconds, these spells heal for very similar numbers. Of course if 3 seconds is too late already, lifebloom is probably better but both of them are also probably worse than other healing options such as nourish or regrowth.

With starting gear at level 70, glyphed lifebloom will heal for about 5000 with a single stack application (10x300 ticks plus 2000 end heal) while rejuvenation will heal for something around 7500 (6x1250 ticks). These are just numbers extrapolated from my current healing numbers at level 75, but should be close enough for the purposes of this discussion.

EDIT: it's also pretty much a "no brainer" to throw lifebloom+rejuvenation up instead of 2x lifebloom.

 

manatee

Coedan? first of all dunno if you remember me, used to be Magisprite, an undead priest of Immortalis and Bad Omen hey mate.

Consider it that atm, that in raid environment the total healing that is recieved from rejuv is terribly low (7-8% for me usually), while LB gets a decent 40-45, regrowth about the same and rest goes to swiftmend, I dont find why I need to put 3 talent points on a talent that would upgrade only 1 of my spells, and that isnt really making it worthwhile, imo.
then again, with nourish introduced rejuv+nourish might end up more useful then the 3LB roll.
The point is that when I put LB on a tank, I trust on that whenever his hp will drop, LB will be ticking almost always atleast one time, while rejuv aint something I can rely on, I preffer keeping rejuv's up for neccesary swiftmends. for raidhealing again, same goes, putting on regrowth on some fights, other are ok with lifeblooms, but rejuv is just too slow for this purpose.

Atm I'm playing on Deanshj <Perfect Circle> coedan, so I guess see you up at neptulon

 

Anaram

The improvements to rejuvenation base values supports the idea that it would be used with 3.0 talents much more than currently.

It's significantly better HPM than other spells save lifebloom (and flourish) while still vastly beating the HPSC of non-stacked lifebloom. It's actually similar with HPSC of triple lifebloom stack with the ability to both swiftmend the target and (with replenish) to restore some mana/rage/energy/runicpower. On top of that there's the option to get a glyph for it. That said, rejuvenation might not be to everyone's liking.

 

Kathbrian

It's a wait and see game for me at this point, it depends on the encounters. If they have large amounts of burst with the MT going from full life to to half life every swing, I doubt I'll use Rejuv much differently.

I've also heard conflicting reports on whether or not Replenish will proc if the target is at full health, can anyone clarify?

 

• Playered

Replenish will proc regardless of successful ticks, tried & tested of the current build (8885).

The proc rate was roughly once per cast on the level 75 version (12sec) with the duration enhancing talent and the chance of getting 2 procs seemed less frequent than getting 0 procs.

 

Kathbrian

Interesting, that certainly makes Replenish and Rejuvenation more desirable.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

Rejuvenation costs about 150 more mana (If I remember correctly) and has a very high chance of giving ~200 mana, 20 runic power, 10 energy, or 5 rage. It's worth the extra mana in the vast majority of cases.

With mana costs as low as they are and the global cooldown being reduced to 1 second, I find myself putting a rejuvenation on every party member in the 5 mans I've done, even the heroics.

 

Aszhalinde

WoW Forums -> Please change Gift of the Earthmother

Would this be a good solution to the haste problem? We'd end up valuing spellpower and mana regen primarily of course, and crit/haste secondarily.

 

• Playered

Front loading talents is a silly idea quite honestly and always ends up doing more harm than good, the last point should always be the most valuable one I believe.

They do need to find a way to allow haste to be more viable though - be it reducing the GotE by half or making it also allow them to go sub 1.0 sec GCD.. something..

Their original intention to allow gear sharing was a fine one but they have moved further and further away from it as they have progressed in the talent development.
The example of how they are/will be allowing some synergy for Afflic locs and crit shows they still have it in mind but right now we have gone from potentially having Healing, Spi, Crit, Haste back down to just Healing.. Spirit had vasts amount of potential with the previous beta version of (i)ToL Aura but again they have weakened it, Int has gone up in value however.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

I'd like to see gift of the earthmother reduced to three ranks. This would let haste still be useful, plus I REALLY don't want to roll a full 9 lifeblooms in a raid.

 

• Player