Erdluf

Does anyone know the cast time for Revive? OOC rez by a stealth class seems very strong for Arena (and some BG situations too).

 

malthrin

It's 10 seconds, like the other rezzes. One of the changes published from the first Alpha build was that Druid NS went from making any nature spell instant to any nature spell under 10s.

 

Tirlas

As far as revive, seems like much fun[read: exploitation] might be had by having nekkid shealth rez runs through instances. Yet mobs will probably be strategically placed with dectect invis.

 

• Arentios

My initial reaction is to think that it's just a change in design philosophy. Given the emphasis on shorter dungeons (seen all through TBC) softening of trash (making raid trash much more CCable in an early TBC patch) and less trash in general (using Sunwell Plataeu and Magister's Terrace as examples) does the ability to skip a trash pack or two (with the added clause that you have to end up clearing it or rez past it again if you end up needing a full runback) make up for the time and headache being able to perform such an action adds?

I look at how things like Sap and Entangling Roots are being made more universally usable, and the addition of a CC (even on a cooldown) to Shamans, and I see a definite leaning towards making trash a very small factor in instance design.

It just seems like one of those things that people worry about because of hard to quantify fears, but ends up being a minor issue in the long run.

Personally, I'm just sad that this means I'll have to take a more active role in wipe recovery.

 

Ogemaniac

Gift of the Earthmother actually seems over-powered to me. I think it would be better as .05/.1/.15/.2/.25. There are two reasons

1: Spell haste would remain useful to us. This is important, because having stats that don't help your character cause poor scaling issues (which is one reason why druids and paladins fall behind priests and shamans in TBC raid healing).

2: We are over-reliant on lifebloom for healing now. The proposed .5s GCD reduction would ensure it would stay that way. .25s would keep a better balance with our other healing spells.

Several people have argued that spell haste is already pretty worthless for druids. I disagree. Having spell haste does two very nice things for you

1: You have a lot more wiggle-room in cycling four spells. In reality, most of us switch to three spells when we are running around or things get complicated. It is one thing to rotate between your lifebloom_Tank1 lifebloom_Tank2 lifebloom_Tank3 etc macros and quite another to do something like lifebloom_Tank1 lifebloom T...oh crap! wait rejuv swiftmend...grrr...which lifebloom I on again? lifebloom Tank1...decurse!!!!....etc etc. Without some serious spell haste, I doubt most druids are casting four spells and getting back around to restoring the lifebloom on the MT. There just isn't enough time to cover up for your ~.25s reaction times, shifting fingers, and the time it takes to switch targets.

2: You are faster. Get 150 haste, and your GCD is down to 1.35s or so. That rejuv+swiftmend now goes off .3 seconds sooner, assuming you were in the midst of the previous spell's gcd when you decided to use this combo. Needless to say, this saves lives and wipes.

 

Benita

If by raid healing you mean healing more than one target, its the lack of having a heal that affects more than one target. If you mean overall healing output, i can show you some WWS where this is not true throughout whole SWP. Druids and priests dominate healing, shamans in chain heal friendly fights and paladins are the odd man out.

Haste is an awesome stat right now and lets you use 5 gcd's while keeping up lifeblooms or work in regrowths etc. However 80% of my healing is already LB and rejuv, if those dont benefit of haste anymore, i doubt i would use haste unless its 3-4 times as cheap as equivalent +healing (or spellpower). Flourish might change this to 60%, but unless nourish is castable in ToL i dont see a big switch of hot healing for trees.

 

Darian_TruBlade

I don't agree with this point. There's a threshold at which point this does become a problem (see Shadow Priests), but with Int, Spirit, +Healing and Mp5 all being important stats, we aren't particularly hurt for being able to ignore Spell Haste.

1. All healers have a spell that is simply better than the others. Having healed as a Shaman before my Druid I know that 90% of the time I was spamming various ranks of Healing Wave on the tank, or Chain Heal when I was assigned raid healing. Similar statements can be made about Priests and Paladins.

2. I don't imagine for a moment that it would be easy to maintain 6 Lifebloom stacks. Having to keep track of that many targets, along with the potentially enormous mana cost, would make it prohibitive. While the talent gives us the option of spamming Lifebloom and Rejuvenation absolutely everywhere, I think it's more meant to just give Resto Druids some breathing space.

Right, so why are you complaining that you're getting all of that without having to gear for it? 90% of the usefulness of Spell Haste is from how it allows us to do more within a 7 second cycle, which we will soon get in talent form.

 

• Arentios

Using present numbers, Lifebloom is the most mana to cast time efficient heal of the standard druid heals. Doing 6 Lifeblooms would cost less than 3 lifeblooms and a regrowth cost now, if only marginally, and only slightly more than 3 lifeblooms and a rejuvenation. To say that it would be enormously costly or prohibitive would be incorrect unless lifebloom's cost increases by a much larger percent than regrowth/rejuv, not factoring in any potential nourish use.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

I'm expecting Gift of the Earthmother to be reduced to 3 ranks, so you get to take off .3 on your global cooldown but no more unless you add spell haste. We'll see though. I wouldn't be excited to have to roll 5+ lifeblooms.

 

Lupison

Well you could always do that from the first level you got your rez spell. Assuming it's up you could just stealth past everything and rez a rezer... I mean granted it burnt your 30 min (now 20) cooldown, but it was possible. This just takes away the cooldown part.

 

malthrin

I think the point of Gift of the Earthmother is twofold:
1) More free time to use other spells
2) Use mana faster when you're using every GCD

There's not really any reason you'd ever roll 5 Lifeblooms unless you're trying to heal through Encapsulate or something. I envision this conversation leading to the Gift talent:
Designer A: ok, what cool new healing spells can we give Druids
Designer B: Nourish, Flourish
Designer A: Cool, let's do those
Designer C: Druids already spend 50-75% of their GCDs casting Lifebloom, they may not use these
Designer A: Good point let's nerf Lifebloom
Designer B: Probably not a good idea, let's just give them more time so they can use the new stuff
Designer A: Ok, let's increase the duration of Lifebloom so they can refresh less often
Designer C: Do we really want to make Druids more mana efficient? If we make them cast faster it'll do the same thing
Designer B: True, let's make that a talent to encourage people to go deep Resto instead of getting Dreamstate
Designer A: Sounds good, lunchtime!

 

Darmuth

Here's a question with the one change for the aura everyone in the raid will receive 5% more healing. Any ideas/thoughts as to if the aura should stack or not. If it doesn't stack then would there be any reason to bring more then one tree druid to a raid, but then if it does stack then I could see other healing classes getting left out to increase healing even more by having multiple trees.

 

• Arentios

If it doesn't stack, then the merits of bringing multiple tree druids to a raid depends on the other capabilities that they bring to the table compared to other classes. As an example, holy priests presently do not stack at all in terms of buffs, but that doesn't automatically disqualify having several of them in a raid.

If it does stack, it's still a very similar situation. What other abilities do resto druids bring. Do those abilities combined with the stacking bonus outweigh what other classes bring?

It's the same question that has to be dealt with now with things like blessings, totems, and synergy in general.

 

• Arawethion

Do you currently justify the second Tree in your raids because of a second group aura?

Carrot Cake Soup is like the taste of watching girls make out.

 

Darmuth

In some fights like ones that have multiple MT's the second aura is worth it due to being able to get optimal tank groups with pally shaman lock druid and tank.

Granted flame tank healing for illidan is pretty easy I (I'm the healing lead) can put one main healer on each of the flame tanks and both druids keep rolling LBs up on both tanks, leaving all the other healers to raid heal.

Though our second resto mainly came along from a time where we were short on healers and he filled the roll well. We weren't looking for another tree in particular just some more healing (we were just starting Bloodboil at the time), he just was at the right place at the right time and joined us (I still find it odd seeing a second tree I was pretty much the only tree from Kara halfway through BT).

It was mainly a thought exercise if the aura will stack or not. Also was hoping that someone would have heard or maybe know. I doubt it will effect our group that much either way.

 

Lokar

* Flourish: Heals friendly party or raid members within 15 yards of the target for 672 over 7 sec. The amount healed is applied quickly at first, and slows down as the Flourish reaches its full duration. Costs 450 mana.

Assuming the same thing as lifebloom, where you can keep 4 of these up, can't you potentially have 4 flourishes up and running at the same time on different targets, each healing the whole raid? So once all 4 are up, you are healing the raid for ~1200 a sec?

 

charriu

I guess it will be limited to 5 people max or something like that...

 

tylanthea

672 over 7 seconds with "slower" healing towards the end sounds more like a .. 0->1sec tick->2sec tick->4sec tick to me, which kinda fills the 7 seconds. Which means that towards the end you're only getting ~300 HPS.

Does anyone else think it's likely that Bark's Blessing was removed due to being able to keep Bark's Blessing on the whole raid if you cast 5 flourishes with some spell haste due to GCD? Blizzard might have thought "Hey, they might do this anyway so let's just remove Bark's Blessing and give a raid-wide aura".

It might make sense to bring two restoration druids, one in ToL form for raid healing and the aura, and a caster-form restoration druid for full HoT-stacks Nourish Tank healing. With the tree buff, the tree aura would be more mana efficient, whereas the caster-form druid wouldn't need as much mana since he/she's focusing on just the tanks.

Just a speculation

 

Norfair

I think someone said CoH and Flourish have a 6 sec cooldown on the current alpha, which would mean you can't keep it up on the entire raid (although it does fit nicely in a typical Lifebloom cycle).

Also, if I don't read it wrong, Bark's Blessing is the same as ToL aura, only Bark's Blessing is something that is only applied to people who got healed by you, while ToL is applied to everyone within 40y range. So that way ToL aura already "provides Bark's Blessing" to the entire raid (granted they are all in healing range).

By the way, I read the tooltip as Flourish as something like: heals 200 first second, 150 second second, 100 third second, etc. Soon we'll find out what it actually means.

Guybrush: You're about as fearsome as a doorstop.
Murray: Is it a really EVIL-looking doorstop?

 

tylanthea

I was speculating what happened before Flourish got the cooldown and ToL aura was applied to the whole raid.

Since Flourish didn't have a reported cooldown before, and you are technically healing everyone affected by Flourish, Flourish would have applied Bark's Blessing to 5 people per cast. A 5 Flourish cycle would have been a "Raid-Wide ToL aura + HoT" with some +haste. Again, this is all before the cooldown change, and when bark's blessing was present before ToL became a raid-wide aura. My speculation was that Blizzard took this idea and just gave us a ToL aura that affects the whole raid.

I also wonder if Flourish is going to become Swiftmend-able... the anticipation is killing me.

 

Druitt

So the incessant whining about "I want a REAL rez" may screw up stealth runs. (The point of stealth runs being that you can bypass a lot of content, but you're operating on the edge, since more than a very occasional death will mean a (slow) stealth back to the party. Tradeoffs. Which most players seem unwilling to do.)

 

Akston

Will flourish and CoH work like chain heal currently does and target the players with the lowest health or will they target the people closest to you? With it being able to hit anyone in the raid how exactly will it decide who is going to be healed outside of the person you are actually targeting to heal?