Prinsesa

The talent calculator at WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Paladin -> Talent Calculator is showing more changes.

1. Improved Blessing of Might is now 10% per point for 5 points, capping out at 50% at 5 points. Our level 70 BoM is +220 AP, this increases it to 330, while our level 79 BoM goes from +300 AP raw to +450 AP talented.

2. Vindication is now 10% per point for 2 points, capping out at 20% at 2 points. This is an increase over the current 5% per point for 3 points.

3. Pursuit of Justice is now 1% spell miss per point and 8% movement speed bonus per point for 2 points, capping out at 2% spell miss and 15% movement speed at 2 points. This is a slight nerf of the spell miss portion, but makes the movement speed bonus cheaper.

4. Guarded by the light is now a straight 15% reduction on Consecration, Holy Shield and Avenger's Shield mana costs, capping out at a 30% reduction in mana costs. This is a change from the 10% proc chance on a parry/dodge to get a 25/50% reduction.

EDIT:

To put the Improved Blessing of Might change into a perspective:

Untalented TBC BoM is 220 AP. Talented TBC BoM is 330 AP, or an increase of 110 AP

Untalented TBC Battle Shout is 305 AP. Talented (Commanding Presence) TBC Battle Shout is 381 AP, or an increase of 76 AP

If we add Solarian's Sapphire, untalented Battle Shout is 375 AP. Talanted Battle Shout is 468 AP, or an increase of 93 AP.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63815BffMm.png

 

• afy

If I'm not mistaken, SoR cannot crit, so Blood/Martyr/Command is still a lot more dps.

 

Dannethkilm

Holy Shock, at rank 7 according to the tool tip on the website:
435 mana
1296 - 1402 damage
2401-2599 healing

I think that is what current tbc max rank holy lights heal for....

A huge buff compared to the earlier post with the HPM calculations that evaluated holy shock as static 650 mana cost at the same level...

Infusion of Light:
Decreases cast time on Holy Light by 1.3 sec after a critical Holy Shock, upped from 1.25 as listed on mmo-champion.

Small change or rounding errors. .05s faster Holy Lights for 1 point into it.

 

GSH

Alright, I have equations for JoB and JoC, but they're really weird. I would appreciate it if someone could see if their results are close.

JoB: Damage = 42% * AP + 66% * SP - 75

JoC: Damage = 40% * AP + 63% * SP - 50

I don't think they're quite right, I think base weapon damage plays a role somewhere, but I think it'll give a reasonable estimate of JoB/JoC damage. Let me know if you have a AP,SP combo that is nowhere near this.

 

Cathela

That's a huge buff. The Blizzard talent calculator still shows ranks 5-6-7 having the same mana cost, so I don't quite trust the rank 7 efficiency yet.

But even if you look at rank 5 (the max TBC tank):

435 mana
904 - 978 damage
1258 - 1362 healing

That's still really really good. With 2500 +healing in T6 gear, you're looking at around 2600 total non-crit healing per shock (including Healing Lights). Instantly.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Stardusty

Either the wording is confused, or I am, because live TBC Improved Blessing of Might is only a 20% increase.

 

• Theras

It's a comparison of Level 70 BoM and Level 70 Battle Shout. Basically, the talent change makes Improved BoM even more valuable to raid DPS than Improved Battle Shout + Solarian's Sapphire.

<Illidari Demon Hunter>

 

bellator

GSH,

Nice work again, if you get the chance, could you see if JoR can crit and if the proc of SoC is still 7ppm.

Reason being, currently in a 1 minute period:-

SoR Damage is 300%AP + 600%SP
SoC Damage is 4.9WeaponDamage + 120%SP

This would mean that for SoC to do more damage, Buffed Weapon damage > 61%AP + 94%SP

Assuming 4000AP and 1200SP, Buffed weapon damage would have to be greater than 3500. This seems to point in favour of SoR.

Now you have also shown that
JoR = 45%AP + 73%SP
JoC = 40%AP + 63%SP - 50

Over a minute (judged on CD), and assuming JoR can't crit (i'll multiply JoC by 1.6 to get a rough average increase) we get

JoR = 337.5%AP + 547.5%SP
JoC = 480%AP + 756%SP - 600

Now working these into the initial formula we get

S/JoR Damage = 637.5%AP + 1147.5%SP
S/JoC Damage = 4.9WeaponDamage + 480%AP +876%SP - 600


This would mean that for SoC to do more damage,

Buffed Weapon damage > 32%AP + 55%SP + 600

ie about 2500.

Either SoR seems a little too powerful as a dps seal or SoC is underpowered

 

Prinsesa

It's even better than Seal of Blood?

After reading bellator's post, I did some off the cuff calculations.

The Rawr profile of my Ret set lists me at 2239 AP, 1106 weapon damage and 3.60 swing speed ([Trollbane], plus an assumed 671 SP from Sheath of Light conversion.

=====

Seal of Righteousness

I used GSH's formula in Page 18 to calculate the damage from my SoR procs:
Damage = 0.05 * WS * AP + 0.1 * WS * SP
Damage = 0.05 * 3.60 * 2239 + 0.1 * 3.6 * 671

This gave me 644 damage per proc.
At 16.67 swings per minute, 644 damage per swing totaled 10,747 damage over one minute.

=====

Seal of Command

I used the following formula to calculate the damage from my SoC procs:
Damage = WD * 0.7 + SP * 0.2
Damage = 1106 * 0.7 + 671 * 0.2

This gave me 908 damage per proc.
At 7 procs per minute, 908 damage per proc totaled 6,359 damage over one minute

=====

Seal of Blood

I used the following formula to calculate the damage from my SoB procs:
Damage = WD * 0.35
Damage = 1106

This gave me 387 damage per proc.
At 16.67 swings per minute, 387 damage per swing totaled 6,451 damage over one minute.

=====

Unless I'm missing something, SoR is nearly 40% better than my other 2 offensive Seals, as Ret?

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63815BffMm.png

 

• Theras

Let's not forget about Ye Olde Crite Chance, here. Last I checked, Seal of Righteousness still cannot crit (although the Judgement now crits for 100% bonus damage), which will swing things significantly towards the "melee DPS" seals. That's not to say that the scaling for Seal of Righteousness isn't ludicrous right now compared to Command and Blood, of course; it absolutely is. But it's not quite that bad.

<Illidari Demon Hunter>

 

Prinsesa

If I take my 35.25% melee crit rate into account, the totals for SoC and SoB increase to 8,601 and 8,725 damage over 1 minute, respectively.

I agree, it's not quite as bad, but that's still a ways off from SoR's 10.7k figure.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63815BffMm.png

 

Akston

SoB has the whole "does damage to you which nets you mana back from heals" but that does seem a little weird.

 

bellator

Doh i totally messed up how SoR worked in my last one posting, have revised based on SoC crit, and both JoR/C critting.
As a crit multiplyer i have used again a rough 1.6 multiplyer as a rough average. And based these %'s over a minute


SoR Damage is 300%AP + 600%SP (cant crit)
SoC Damage is 7.85WeaponDamage + 192%SP (inc crit)
JoR = 540%AP + 876%SP (inc crit)
JoC = 480%AP + 756%SP - 600 (inc crit)

Combined over a minute this means you have

S/JoR Damage = 840%AP + 1476%SP
S/JoC Damage = 7.85WeaponDamage + 480%AP +876%SP - 600


This would mean that for SoC to do more damage,

Buffed Weapon damage > 45%AP + 76%SP + 600

ie about 3312

Still, Either SoR seems a little too powerful as a dps seal or SoC is underpowered

 

Argavaine

Dont forget that Rightnous Vengeance increase the crit damage by 15%.

 

bellator

I included that in the 1.6 multiplier. Its only a rough number but gives a good impression.

 

Argavaine

Scaling of SoR and SoC with AP:

SoR:
0,05*3,6WS*100AP+0,1*3,6*100AP*0,3 = 28,8 damage

SoC:

100AP:14*3,6*0,7+0,2*100AP*0,3 = 24 damage


I take 1,6 crit multiplier from Bellator and 42,2% SoC proc-> 28,8 damage for SoR and 16,2 damage for SoC per 100 AP



Judgements need no math because you can see that SoR scales better:

JoR = 45%AP + 73%SP
JoC = 40%AP + 63%SP - 50

 

jere

I don't see any mention of the base damage component. Did they remove the base damage from the judgements?

 

bellator

One thing we also forgot to consider was that ret will be able to take Seals of the Pure increasing SoR damage by 15% but not effecting SoC/B

 

Darandor

Question regarding the Holy Wrath change:

Is it still undead/demon only, or does it affect all now?

(I'm assuming I'm hoping for too much here.)

 

Argavaine

Sends bolts of holy power in all directions, causing 1044 to 1226 Holy damage and stunning all Undead and Demon targets within 10 yds for 3 sec.
1185 Mana, Instant cast, 30 sec cooldown

 

Kigale

Death Knight talent: Lichborne - Draw upon unholy energy to become undead for 30 sec. While undead, you are immune to Charm, Fear and Sleep effects, and your horrifying visage causes melee attacks to have an additional 25% chance to miss you.

Will Holy Wrath work? Exorcism?
What about Turn Evil? Is it considered "Fear" or will it work since the DK is Undead?

 

Darandor

Thanks.

I still very much like the change (obviously), and the implications for being a bit of an 'anti-Death Knight' in PvP.

 

teeny

I think the spell description is clear enough to answer your question without having it tested on beta : the DK will be vulnerable to all undead-aimed spells , at the exception of turn evil , obviously.

 

Lunkhedd

Wow, good work, those look like a pain to figure out.

Have you tried picking up a weapon from a vendor (i.e. much lower weapon damage) to verify your suspicion about base weapon damage? You could also grab a very low level 2-hander and a higher level 1-hander with the same dps and see if there's a difference.

Another question--the Fanaticism talent still refers to "Judgements capable of a critical hit". Have you spotted any Judgements that can't crit?

 

GSH

There was no constant term. I think they replaced the base damage with the AP term.

Also, I'm really not sure about my JoC, JoB terms, so take them with a large grain of salt.