bellator

Tooltip indicated CD has been lowered. No other change

 

Wingmna

Sacred Cleansing is 30% chance on each cleanse to obtain a 30% resistance rate on other debuff effectives. For me this is very underpowered if anything, it effectively requires you to spam Cleanse to obtain a buff that may or may not help you (and is a magic effect so can be dispelled itself). For this ability to be of any use I believe the talent should be pushed up to 100% proc rate for the magic buff that gives you 30% resistance, this will give Holy Paladins quite a lot more viability that they need in Arena without removing what a Paladin is (a defensive hybrid). But like noted, in it's current form it is not not practical for PVP, or PVE.

 

Zaroua

Making the RNG an even bigger part of the arena shouldn't be Blizzard's focus. If they want to make WoW an e-sport they'd have to get rid of silly RNG dependent procs like Sacred Cleansing. And yes the talent is very underwhelming in its current incantation. Something like "When your Cleanse spells removes a debuff, the target gains a buff reducing the duration of that type of debuff for 20 seconds." would make it somewhat better, but it'd still be weak.

If a Druid specs Moonkin in Darnassus, do the trainers still laugh at him?

 

bellator

I have been playing around (alot) with JoC.

Whilst the numbers GSH posted are on the right track I believe it is a little off. The first thing is that unarmed (min=max damage), JoC is fixed. When there is a weapon range, there is also a range in JoC. Thus a simple calculation based on AP and SP is not enough. The best I can come up with is:-

JoC = 27% Base Weapon damage + 40%AP + 58% SP.

It's not always 100% accurate, but it's pretty close.

SoC = 70% Weapon damage + 20%SP

 

Pyralissa

Did they add spell scaling to Seal of Blood/Martyr? Or is it possible that, with Sheath of Light, Seal of Command could reach a point where it out scales SOB?

 

Hammuhtime

I'm currently on the beta, and as of right now due to the large increase in mana cost for each of the spells, it would seem that for pvp it would be a helpful talent to have, but for raids i'm not sure how useful it would actually be. The way judgments are right now, i'd say probably could spend 5 points elsewhere instead, but it's hard to tell until we really see what the itemization for paladins is going to be.

As of this morning they released the new paladin trees for the next build, linked on the paladin beta forums. A few notable changes would be:

-Vindication works on all damage, its only two points now, and its now 20% instead of 15% previously
-Holy shield is 6 charges baseline
-Blessing of might now scales 10% per talent point.

It's also worth noting that even with all the OP qq over paladins right now, Art of War and Judgments of the Wise remain the same.

 

Lunkhedd

Wait a sec, what? Should the second of these be Holy Shock?

Thanks for the info. Is there any sign of the various Hand spells? I haven't seen much discussion about them.

 

flyingtoastr

Not that it has much to do with anything, but the talent trees at the wowsite finally have some real icons for the new talents.

They look SICK.

Glancing over it though there is nothing else new that hasn't been mentioned. Still, gotta give credit to the Blizz art department, Northrend looks incredible,

Save Atlantis!

 

Cathela

Added to the OP. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Ellerain

Guarded by Light is now a flat mana cost reduction, 30% with 2 points (was 50% proc-based). It probably would be good for leveling, but in raid tank build there are nearly not enough points, and honestly, with new Ret, I doubt prot leveling will be that attractive. And yes, new icons look impresive.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my job here is done!

 

flyingtoastr

He forgot to mention that Guarded by the Light is a flat 15/30% mana cost reduction instead of a proc on parry/dodge.

EDIT: Beaten to it.

Save Atlantis!

 

GSH

Who's the guy on Hammer of the Righteous?

 

bellator

Seal Coeffients:-

I ran tests on all seals to compare to GSH. These are my primary conclusions. I realise some have been done before by GSH and others, but for double checks etc, just went through everything

SoC = 70% Weapon Damage + 20%SP
JoC = 27% Base Weapon Damage + 40% AP + 58% SP (not 100% accurate)
SoB = 35% Weapon Damage
JoB = 27% Base Weapon Damage + 42% AP + 55% SP (not 100% accurate)
SoR = Weapon Speed * 5% * AP + Weaponspeed * 10% * SP
JoR = 45% AP + 73% SP
SoV = 7% AP / tick + 17% SP / tick
JoV = 54% AP + 87% SP


These are on top of my healing results which can be summarised as:-

Flash of Light = 100% SP
Holy Light = 166% SP
Holy Shock = 81% SP
Beacon of Light = 94% SP over the duration

Also


SoL Proc = 18% SP+AP
SoW Proc = 9% SP+AP

Retribution Aura = 6.66% SP
Hammer of Wrath = 43% SP
Crusader Strike = 110% Weapon damage no SP Coefficient
Divne Storm = Feels like 100% weapon damage no SP coefficient (current bugged as being treated as physical damage)

Still to do:-

Blessing of Sanctuary
Holy Shield
Avenger's Shield
Hammer of the Righteous
Shield of the Righteous

 

TSplodey

That'd be Sammy. I think he works at the Blizzard Art department (?) and his moosh has been used as a placeholder icon since at least Warcraft 3.

 

flyingtoastr

Samwise of course. It's used as a placeholder in all Blizzard games when they don't have an icon.

Save Atlantis!

 

Prinsesa

Regarding Retribution Aura: Does it still have separate ranks and base damage? I still see ranks on WoWHead's WOTLK site.

Ret Aura rank 6 is 62 base damage per hit. 300 spell power would add 19.98 damage with a 6.66% coefficient, or 82 damage per hit.

Not bad.

EDIT: Cathela, you might want to include in the OP that Hammer of Righteous will avoid hitting any CC'd targets, ala Avenger's Shield.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63815BffMm.png

 

GSH

Bellator, you missed the damage you get from unleashing Seal of Wisdom/Justice/Light.

 

flyingtoastr

Whoops, I did miss a change. Fanaticism now increases the crit chance of Judgements by 25% (up from 15%) in addition to the Threat Reduction.

Save Atlantis!

 

bellator

After my testing session, i ran around killing mobs having some fun. These are my thoughts.

The crazy JoC you get by stacking all the multipliers is silly. Art of War needs to have its proc chance off CS increased and damage modifier decreased to stop pvpers crying about being 1 shotted by paladins.

Aside from that I personally don't think much needs to be changed. People have said the damage output is too high, and yes in my poor gear I am slicing through mobs at ease and with speed. It feels like TBC alpha when we got 6sec CS. People whined then, it got nerfed to 10sec, and it took us 12 months to get them to revert this. Yes the damage output is crazy, but it's way to early to tell how it will scale at 80 / end game.

In terms of a mana issue, well there is no mana issue. When I grind in TBC I often have BoW on and judge SoW on all mobs, here it's BoM all the way and i'm even judgeing light as I have no mana issues. I was spamming CS,DS,Judgements on CD without an issue. It does drop down from time to time, but if it ever gets below 50%, stun a mob, get an art of war proc, judge SoC, and bamn, mana is back up and fine. With JoL on mobs and Divine Storm on CD there was little health worries. In fact in 30mins of grinding mobs, I never cast a heal or drank once. Again, some may say this is overpowered. However Divine Storm and Judgements of the wise both are reduced in value when in a group situation as the mana/health gain is split accross members. Now in solo/grinding mode, with the large amounts of mana we use, it is next to impossible to balance the mana usage/gain seesaw. Either there wont be an issue or we will be drinking every few mobs. I don't see the issue with the way it currently is.

Fluidity, god I love the fluidity. No longer do I have to spend 5 seconds deciding between JoW/JotC, seal, judge, re-seal... and then start my dpsing. Now it's a case of SoC....JoL....CS...DS...mob dead....3 stacks of veng, art of war and 24secs left of SoC.....run to next mob....JoL....CS.....DS...mob dead....rinse and repeat. Dpsing feels good, not a chore now.

Divine Storm, errm its good and bad. On single mobs, it just feels like another CS. Nice dps boost, but...meh. However when pulling 3-4 mobs, with retribution aura on and DS going boom, all the damage flashing up on screen is crazy. Plus, and i'm not sure if this is a bug it's ability to proc SoR/L/W on each of the mobs it hits....and....i've saved the best to last if you bothered to read through all this.....the ability to stack SoV on all mobs it hits. 4 mobs each with a 5 stack of SoV rolling is just...hmmmmmmm

 

Prinsesa

This is very interesting - do you mean that if you're solo, you get the full 60% damage-to-mana conversion all to yourself?

Has anyone tested how Judgements of the Wise assigns its mana in a party situation? I'd assume a Chain Heal-esque AI that looks for whoever's lowest on mana, then always the Paladin himself, but you never know.

EDIT: By the way, what happens to the T4 2 piece set bonus and Libram of Souls Redeemed, now that Seal of the Crusader and Blessing of Light have left us?

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63815BffMm.png

 

Eir

I haven't read every post in this thread so I'm not sure if this has been covered, but after testing on the beta server, it looks like Hammer of the Righteous does not do any sort of normalization based on weapon speed. So the slower the better.

So that means we won't be competing against Prot Warriors for tanking weapons, we'll be competing against Rogues/Fury/Enhance for slow MH weapons.

Incidentally, I'm not sure if I forgot to train spells or what, but my T6/Sunwell tanking set royally sucks for aggro generation with the new mechanisms for tanking in WotLK. I knew it would be bad, but with the lack of Salv, it was pretty horrid trying to tank for people in the gear I'm carrying over from TBC. Time to mix in some of the cast off Ret gear I've saved from DE.

 

MCHamster

I have searched the entire thread without being able to find any other confirmation, but I can say with certainty that Hammer of Wrath does not reset the swing timer. I made a video of it on the Beta realm while I was questing. The quality is not great, but you clearly see the swing and cast timer.

Hammer of Wrath test

 

Hammuhtime

How is it that your set sucks but yet my set that was t5/t6 stuff worked out fine? I had absolutely no issue holding agro. Especially with the changes that i've seen go down so far. I was running around with about 750 spell damage most of the time, trying to mess around with a weapon that had higher weapon dps for our 51 point talent, and threat was never an issue.

 

Friesia

You forgot another one

Pursuit of Justice has been reduced to 2 points: 1%/8% at Rank 1 and 2%/15% at Rank 2.

 

DonGuapo

Bellator, you mentione