Lateolocutus

Can you clarify how this works? IE, the mana returned scales with your spellpower / AP?

Are there equations for how the return scales yet?

 

flyingtoastr

Turn Evil - Spell - World of Warcraft

Listed as "Apply Aura: Mod Fear"

Fear - Spell - World of Warcraft

Listed as "Apply Aura: Mod Fear"

Fairly safe to assume Turn Evil is a fear effect.

 

• Theras

Checking Coriel's post history in this very thread will give you the answer you seek.

<Illidari Demon Hunter>

 

• Chicken

Death Coil is also listed as "Apply Aura: Mod Fear", and does nevertheless bypass abilities like Will of the Forsaken and Berserker Rage. So as others said, we really just need someone to test this.

Edit: Did find a confirmation Death Knights definitely count as undead while under the effects of Lichborne, a Priest can cast Shackle Undead on them. WoW Forums -> Lichborne check the fourth post. Unfortunately that still leaves our fear dilemma in place, though it does confirm Holy Wrath and Exorcism being usable.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Milou

I am obviously completely missing how these formulas work. Here is what I interpret this as, and the numbers are completely non-sensical.

Attack Power: 4000 (in combat attack power)

JoL: 4000*0.18+4000*0.3*0.18 = 1920 healing per proc. Not possible, so I am looking at this wrong.

Thank you for any clarification.

 

Revith

I don't think your math is correct.

4000*0.18 + 4000*0.3*0.18 = 720 + 216 = 936.

 

• Theras

That'd be because 4000*0.18+4000*0.3*0.18 = 936, not 1920. That seems a bit more reasonable now, doesn't it?

<Illidari Demon Hunter>

 

Milou

/facepalm

Apparently it helps to actually do that final multiplication (0.18) who would've thunk it? But 936 is still abnormally high for such a high proc, considering it currently procs for 95 I agree it needs to be buffed but not to these levels.

 

kidvid

How does this look?

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Paladin -> Talent Calculator

+has may of the good defense skill: fear, stun, poison, disease reduction, dodge, parry, conc aura
+has all of the good +spell crit skills
+has sheath of light
+has infusion of light for holy light instant cast

-lacks kings
-lacks imp bop
-lacks divine illumination (I actually find this very useful in the arena)
-lacks light's grace (of questionable value with the new holy shock/instant holy light mechanic)
-only 3/5 holy guidance -- hopefully counterbalanced by the AP to SP conversion from sheath of light

The reason I'm toying around with this build is because I think stun is a huge factor in pvp, and the 30% stun duration reduction of stoicism is, IMHO, godly.

Thoughts?

 

Milou

Kidvid, I personally find it too expensive to spread out your talents as such. If you're after Sheath of Light to me it requires to bypass the Protection tree. Also like I mentioned before, Improved Might is far more valuable than Benediction in my opinion.

 

GSH

Well, it's relative. Your 4000 AP is roughly twice as much as I have in my T4-ish gear. So for a new or normal 70, they'll get ~400 or so per proc. That's a pretty useful number for a 70, a number that's actually useful while grinding or soloing.

 

Milou

Well I have over 4000AP in combat with my current gear, this is a pretty significant amount of healing. I Blizzard believes this is appropriate I will obviously not complain about it (nor will our healers) but it seems rather over powered.

 

Kigale

I'm thinking Sacred Cleansing might end up being very very powerful, especially with DKs running around diseasing everyone.

 

Prinsesa

I think the disconnect at this point is whether Lichborne's fear immunity is a byproduct of the DK turning into Undead, since Undead are immune to Fear/Psychic Scream/Howl of Terror/etc., or if it's a specific immunity to Fear preventing effects that could normally Fear even Undead; i.e. Turn Evil.

Question for the Warlocks: can you Death Coil Undead mobs?

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63815BffMm.png

 

Thordarsen

Yes
Does the horror effect work? not that I recall

 

Zaroua

Judgement of Light proc: Health gained = 18% * AP + 18% * SP

Judgment of Wisdom proc: Mana gained = 9% * AP + 9% * SP


Assuming 5000AP at lvl 80 (it'll most likely be higher) and 1500 SP, we get 5000 * .09 + 1500 * .09 = 585 mana per Wisdom proc. Next we'll assume 15 JoW procs every 5 seconds from the entire raid (which is probably on the low end). That gives 8775mp5 to the raid, with a meager 15 procs per 5 seconds and moderate lvl80 stats for a Ret Paladin. Unarguably overpowered.


Let's do Light next with the same Ret Paladin stats: we get 5000 * .18 + 1500 * .18 = 1170 health a Light proc. Let's go on the low end here and say 5 procs a second from your Rogues, Hunters, Warriors, DKs, Ret Paladin, Enh Shamans and Feral Druids. Oops, the Ret Paladin is doing a potential of 5850HPS on AoE heavy encounters.



It takes, 11.111 AP + SP to get 1 extra mana per Wisdom Proc or 8.547AP on the character sheet. With Abomination's Strength, Blessing of Kings, Divine Strength and Unleashed Rage, we get +1Str = 2.86Ap. 2.988Str would thus give your Judgement of Wisdom an extra mana per proc. Hey look, the Enhancement Shaman dropped Strength of Earth totem, now every Wisdom proc grants an extra 33 mana!

So unless I'm really missing something, this is simply ridiculous and overpowered, even more than those 20k Command judgements people have been reporting.

If a Druid specs Moonkin in Darnassus, do the trainers still laugh at him?

 

bellator

Ok, so I now have beta access thanks to a friend....once again thanks again.

Just got the client installed etc etc. Will show my findings here as I get a chance to test things out. Currently testing at level 60 with level 60 skills. Will let you know how it gets on.


Healing

1) Flash of Light Spell Power Coefficient = 1.0

Note1: Test was at lvl 70 with Rank 7 FoL
Note2: With the live coefficient being 0.43 and +healing being about 88% more than +spellpower, was expecting a coefficient of 0.8. This means the spell will be gaining more healing per +sp than it's equivalent on live)

2) The Downranking Coefficient Penalty of using FoL6 = 75%, FoL5 = 35%, FoL4 = 0%

Note1: Test was at lvl70 with Rank 4-6 FoL
Note1: Currently Rank 6 has no penalty, Rank 5 has 90% penalty and Rank 4 has 78% penalty. This is a big loss to downranking heals
Note2: Yes, Rank 4 Flash of Light got 0 benefit from spellpower.

3) Holy Light Spell Power Coefficient = 1.65

Note1: Test was at lvl 70 with Rank 11HL
Note2: With the live coefficient being 0.71 and +healing being about 88% more than +spellpower, was expecting a coefficient of 1.34. This means the spell will be gaining more healing per +sp than it's equivalent on live). The % increase seems in line with that of FoL.

4) Downranking of Holy light is also reduced

Note1: Note run actual numbers to get %, but downranking like FoL is harsher, however it doesnt feel as harsh as FoL (still a lot harsher though)

5) Retribution Aura scaled with 6.6% Spellpower. No AP scaleing

6) Beacon of Light......

• Has a 94% Coefficient with spellpower over the 15 seconds, split per tick
• When cast repeatedly on a person it refreshes the timer. However if you cast AW then Beacon to get a large HoT then try to refresh Beacon when AW has fallen off get a message "more powerful spell", and have to wait for the Beacon to fall off people reapplying)
• When you move into/out of 10 yards from a person you get a beacon buff which heals you (unsure yet who this healing gets applied to and if it can be used to trigger spritual attunement)
• You can only have 1 Beacon HoT on you (from one paladin at least). If you cast it on 2 people next to each other they both only have one buff

7) Holy Shock has an 81% coefficient with spellpower

Note1: This seems in line with the 0.43 coefficient scaled up to take into account the healing->spellpower change

.....mores(hopefully lots) to come

 

Pyralissa

You cannot Death Coil undead mobs. You could when the spell was first reworked but that was patched out later (the patch comment said that the undead "have already seen it all").

e: Thordarsen's post is more accurate, Death Coil will deal damage to Undead but not inflict the horrify debuff. Death Coil only completely fails on mechanical mobs.

 

Milou

Zaroua, that is pretty much what I'm getting at. Except this is even more OP as you have to consider fully buffed in-combat AP which in Sunwell is pushing 5k already.

Also only melee can proc JoL so hunter pets benefit but not the hunters themselves.

 

Cathela

I've updated the OP with the damage-scaling data Coriel has posted. Coriel, would you mind looking over the Seal/Judgement section of the OP and making sure I haven't missed anything?

It does seem like a lot; even at level 70 a T6-geared Ret paladin would be returning 400+ mana per JoW proc, which is 5-6 times the size of the current proc.

We'll have to see how this fits into the TBC combat experience; one thing I've noticed is that paladin healing spells are seriously dropping in efficiency; holy paladins may be relying on SoW/JoW and melee to keep their mana up, spot-healing with Holy Shock and instant-cast Holy Lights. so they can spend most of their time meleeing.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Pyros

Just tested, Turn Evil does fear Lichborne DK. After all, it also works on undead NPCs, which are immune to fear. So yeah, a lichborne DK is an easy target for a paladin ^^.

 

Roywyn

You mean level 70/70 in the first line, right?

And how exact do you think are your results on the coefficients? 1% error margin, 5%, 0.1%?
I'm trying to nail down the downranking formula, so I'd need to know which numbers have to fit how well.

Anyhow, you learn FoL 7/6/5/4 at 66/58/50/42, which is 4/12/20/28 levels ago. Assuming a "constant 100% - linear drop - constant 0%" curve for downranking, you lose 40% over 8 levels from 50 to 58.
That means if it is a linear decrease, it would be 100% at level 63 (7 levels old), and 0% at 43 (27 levels old).

My other data is from a level 75 mage spamming all ranks of AM.
I'm getting 80%/80%/75%/55%/35%/0% on spells 5/6/12/15/19/27 levels old for a level 75 mage.

It doesn't make sense at all if it's based on "level learned". But I think we can make it work if it's based on "level that the spell last increased its base damage/healing".
I'll try to stitch something together that makes sense.


[Edit]: I'll make a tentative model.

It takes the difference of your character level and the level that the spell last improved it's damage/healing.
If the difference is 0 or 1, it gets full benefit. If it's more, it loses 5%*(difference-1).

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

Rate-my-WotLK-spec! If it's not listed here, it's probably not worth it: http://elitistjerks.com/846078-post4020.html

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.