Akston

Seems like it was only removed with relation to abilities that use a gcd/have a cast time. On my mage using a macro such as:
/cast combustion
/use 13
/use 14
/cast fireball

works fine.

I also saw some macro involving chimaera shot and the /castrandom command earlier in this thread but i can't seem to find the post right now.. Was the functionality changed during beta or sometime before that?

 

Steelfleece

You could probably macro in turning Call of the Wild on auto-cast when you use Bestial Wrath, and then your pet should use it the next time it has a GCD.

 

Mikari

Have been doing some more Naxx 10 today, have gotten a few upgrades, was mainly testing to see if pets were still accounting for as much total DPS as they were previously and they are.

Results from Patchwerk

 

marson

If you dont mine me asking mikari, what was your spec you were using on that patchwerk kill, and also what pet & its spec were you using? if you could post a link to them it would be awesome and quite sweet dps/dmg done there btw ,

 

Disargeria

Some quotes from Blizzcon that are disturbing me at the moment...

Specific example + Reason why = EVERYTHING OFF THE GCD NAO

Uhhh.... ?

What about shaman and moonkin? Heck, they can even heal themselves.


Any thoughts on these?

 

KraxisSingular

Ok, this seems to be an often occuring case for me. Misunderstanding I mean. I guess my clarity is not all it is rapped up to be.:.

Anyway, I started my comments on Freezing Arrow as a question to Sebudai when he said something along the lines of instantly strapping the target = good CC that can be kept up. Now I challenged that on the grounds that it would aggro every mob to the Hunter, not the tank. Of course, I could also have misunderstood him...

In any case, my point has been that Freezing Arrow is decidedly weak as it's application at range is weak. It's lifesaving capacity is weaker than Distracting Shot. Etc etc.
When I trap I only do so after the tank has initiated some sort of action, be it a simple normal shot or if it is a weak pallytank, then after Cpt. America throw. Never do I start the action and get every mob on my hind quarters. And that is why I don't think Freezing Arrow is terribly great as it is too slow to trap after pull (melee is hard to lead, casters might not stay in place), and troublesome as the pull. Normal trapping is just easier.
Would losing Freezing Arrow cause as much of a stirr as the axe of Camouflage? Doesn't look like it.

Since normal trapping is easier and provides us with more choices, why do we even get a crappy skill like Freezing Arrow? Obviously Blizzard considers it a great godsent to Hunter CC or GC is coming up with, what some could term, an excuse for letting it stay as our level 80 ability. To me that just shows that 1) they don't have any people that spend any really serious time playing Hunter or 2) they really don't think we need a cool new ability at 80. I really prefer, and expect, it to be scenario 2 as it is 'merely' a difference of opinion. Not that I particularly like it though. But either case is open to us giving them feedback on the ability.

[EDIT]
Charming comments... Avoiding the issue and insulting Hunters in one go in the first one. The spellpushback is true as long as we don't use Steady Shot... Meh at a dev forgetting our main DPS skill, but hardly surprising after the "You should want Mp5 on gear" and the "Agi = 2 AP" comments. I hope I'm not being unfair to them, but it is certainly a little discouraging to read that.
The last one is PvP, and I wash my hands at that. Other people are much more knowledgeable than me, but even I know that answer is not what people want to hear (basically "you have mail, L2P").

 

Perforate

The idea of "walking away" seems extraordinarily flawed since we require range to do dps, and all classes required to be in melee range to deal damage have access to completely spammable melee movement snares that arent subject to any diminishing returns at all. Disengage alone would probably balance this, if it werent for the fact that these same melee classes also have ways of closing the gap created by disengage instantly. Shadow Step/Intercept.

 

Esoth

My emphasis. I agree completely; a ranged trap in pve actually seems to require MORE skill, which is against Blizzard's stated reason for having it. If you're doing it on the fly, you are dealing with ~1s arming time + flight time which requires you to gauge the pathing of the mob, as well as any nearby mobs lest you trap the wrong one.

 

ElginRoko

By the same logic though, those classes can't use their gap-closing ability on a hunter anymore, they have to find a different way to get close, else the hunter will just disengage away giving them next to nothing but a cooldown. Disengage alone certainly isn't enough to answer hunter vs melee survivability issues, but the fully functioning version which hopefully won't get caught on pebbles or only jump 3 yards when snared, is going to be a massive asset vs any class which wants to keep us a hunter in melee, which is pretty much all of em.

On Arcane shot in a MM rotation, CS->Arcane->Steadyx5 is showing as a very marginal dps boost with 3/3 imp arcane shot on my simulator taking into account aotv time. I'm also seeing 3/3 improved hunter's mark as giving much more return on those points if you drop arcane. What this doesn't take into account of course, is that as soon as you get a decently mobile fight, you're likely to want to use arcane shot, at which point those 3 points in imp arcane shot start to show some decent returns.

 

Griffen

Jeez. Thinking GC is getting tired of us now. It's pretty much aspects we've asked for the whole time.
And unless I got it wrong, our class was pretty much called the newb class last night.

Anywho, I could not help but comment that.

I'm not in Beta, and someone on the EU forums claims that Marked for Death does not affect multi-shot, can anyone verify that? (or falsify it).

Numquam catapultas allice, iram omnium concitabis

 

Esoth

I've come to the same conclusion that arcane isn't worth the mana, unless you're mobile. Even on highly mobile fights though, the cooldown is too high to warrant getting points for it in my opinion. The WWS I see for myself on current mobile boss fights, where I do use arcane shot, put it at a very low percentage.

Improved hunter's mark is not where I would put it though. At level 70, that's 33 AP. Even for every hunter in the raid, that's an incredibly small amount of AP for three talent points. The mana reduction is roughly moot since the cost of hunter's mark for its duration is pretty cheap.

 

Perforate

I disagree with that. The way these classes "close the gap" initially when a fight starts (from my experience anyway) is with things like charge and stealth. Those put them on me immediately and reverses the situation. Now I have one card to play, and right after the clip>disengage they use their second home in missle and they are right on top of me again. From that point onward every variable I can introduce to the fight can be equalled and thus nullified. Trinket? They can do that too, make sure to have a pocket pally in my group to dispell me? But he can have one too.

As for arcane not being worth it, I hadnt even thought about that, if it really wouldnt hurt at all to not spend those three points in arcane that would be amazing.

 

◊ Lactose

Marked for Death does affect Multi-Shot.

Test: 856 RAP (966 with Mark), 90 damage weapon, 32 DPS ammo, 2.3 speed, no %increasing talents, rank 6 Multi-Shot (+205 damage).
Target = Expert's Training Dummy
For a previous test I found the armor mitigation (me Level 75, it Level 60) to be ~22.5%.


No Hunter's Mark
ExpectedDamage = (RAP*0.2 + AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed + WeaponDamage + MultiShotBonus)*0.755
ExpectedDamage = (856*0.2 + 32*2.3 + 90 + 205)*0.775
ExpectedDamage = 418.3
ObservedDamage: 418 and 419.


Hunter's Mark (no Marked for Death)
ExpectedDamage = (RAP*0.2 + AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed + WeaponDamage + MultiShotBonus)*0.755
ExpectedDamage = (966*0.2 + 32*2.3 + 90 + 205)*0.775
ExpectedDamage = 435.4
ObservedDamage: 435 and 436.


Hunter's Mark (with Marked for Death)
ExpectedDamage = (RAP*0.2 + AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed + WeaponDamage + MultiShotBonus)*0.755*MFDBonus
ExpectedDamage = (966*0.2 + 32*2.3 + 90 + 205)*0.775*1.05
ExpectedDamage = 457.2
ObservedDamage: 457.


EDIT: Also works with Barrage. Stacks multiplicatively with Marked for Death.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Chul

Try using Scorpid Poison.

Scorpid Poison gets the attack power conversion on each stack per tick!

Hunter: Untalented
Pet: 776 AP (level 69 scorpid), untalented, 1.25*1.05 modifer
At 5 stacks, SP was ticking for 311 per 2 seconds, or ~156 DPS [(9+5%*776)*(1.25*1.05)*5=313 dmg per tick]

Rake on the other hand, did ~40dps untalented.

With the hunter and pet talented, SP was doing ~500 damage per tick or 250 DPS [(9+5%*776)*(1.25*1.05*1.2*1.2*1.09)*5=480 per tick]

LVL 80 TEST (using Pet AP from WotLK DPS spreadsheet):
Pet AP: ~4000
Multipliers: 1.25*1.05*1.2*1.2*1.03*1.09*1.13(CoE)=2.4
DPS: (20+5%*4000)*2.4*5=2640 per tick=1320 DPS

Compare with Rake's calculated DPS of 450.

Rake aint got nothing on this baby!

 

Perforate

I did notice how strong the scorpid was on the test server at 70, but my cat was still able to outdps it. But thats unbuffed at 70 and without all of the insanity pets get from buffs in a level 80 raid. I did notice however when testing that if you hit BW and trinkets and have the scorpid apply a stack it will tick high but wont stay that way when all the buffs fade. The damage of it comes down off of that high once all the stacking ap buffs fade also. But the normal damage on it is still very high, shame that they arent ferocity though. They lose some damage modifiers on crit and others because of that.

Edit: Just ran a 10 minute dps test on the test server as MM but this time without imp Arcane and I removed it from my rotation using every Imp SS proc instead on Chimera and did 1503 dps solo. My gear is not top tier so thats a new record for me, and its much higher than anything I have been able to get out of testing various BM builds on test at 70. Guess I know what Ill be raiding as in 3.0, unless of course if getting a pet buffed in 3.0 makes that large a difference in BM builds.

 

Esoth

I tested with a newly tamed scorpid (level 75, should be same rank as your 69) hunter/pet both untalented and was getting 335 and 336 per tick once it stacked up to 5 times with 894 AP --> should work out to a range of (8+.05*894)*(1.25*1.05)*5=333 to (10+.05*894)*(1.25*1.05)*5=343. So my findings are in line with yours.

I also tried it taking off my weapons once 5 stacks were up. It took a bit for the new pet AP to register (dot damage didn't seem to change until the second refresh after removing weapons) but it did adjust to the new AP (not the behavior I'm seeing with serpent sting refreshes via chimera).

ALSO, as far as I can tell, scorpid poison cannot crit. This would reduce the benefit to Cobra Strikes and Invigorate to only being from claw (I don't see anything in tenacity that can crit). I haven't looked into how likely your pet is to keep up scorpid poison if claw is also being autocast.

 

Chul

With Claw and SP on, I managed to get 5 stacks up most of the time. You can micromanage it a bit if you have time as when SP was about 75% into its cooldown, I toggled off Claw. I should investigate whether pets have server side spell queue because if they do, putting Scorpid Poison in your shot macros could force it to cast every time the cooldown is up (+- GCD of course).

I ran some DPS tests (using AotV and 2/5 Kindred Spirits - I needed the GttT talents) against the two pets and my lvl 69 scopid beat my lvl 70 cat with Claw + Special. Scorpid did 450 DPS easy, with 500+ at one go, and my cat was about 340 DPS.

 

• Crowbite

Ummm. Have you ever considered using your other abilities to gain space on the first charge/stealth? We still have these other useful abilities like intimidation or scatter shot or bestial wrath or freezing trap or imp wingclip or...(get the point?) My highest rating may have only been 1900 but even I know hunters aren't that useless right now. Disengage is perfect for counters intercepts and shadowsteps. Just don't be stupid and use it on stuff you should be avoiding anyways.

 

Disargeria

The GCD truth is revealed!

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Plops Talks to Tom Chilton @Blizzcon -Details

Many thanks to Plops, who made great sacrifices to bring us this info from Tom Chilton himself.

 

• ZulazeeluIcecrown

It was mentioned in the class panel today that wanding was now going to function exactly like Auto Shot. But somehow I doubt that Haste will stop affecting the GCD for Priests, Mages, and Warlocks. Yes, yes, unfair comparison because they have no way of scaling up wand damage with stats, but somebody had to say it :P

 

Kaejin

But then, what about auto-shot while moving?

Shouldn't we be somewhere in-between with benefits instead of somewhere in-between with penalties only?

Unrelated: Plops is an amusing fellow. It's a shame he was drunk and had to go pee. I'd feel sorry for Tom if he'd have been faced with a sober Plops.