[Hunter] WotLK Talents & Abilities Discussion - Page 4

Sean · 07/18/08, 3:18 PM

And here's the Tenacity tree:

Tier 1:
Cobra Reflexes (2)
Dash/Dive (1)
Great Stamina (3)
Natural Armor (2)

Tier 2:
Spiked Collar (3)
Boar's Speed (1)
Blood of the Rhino (2) Req - 3/3 Great Stamina
Pet Barding (2) Req - 2/2 Natural Armor

Tier 3:
Avoidance (3)
Improved Growl (2)
Lionhearted (2)
Intervene (1)

Tier 4:
Grace of the Mantis (2)
Great Resistance (3)

Tier 5:
Last Stand (1) Req - Avoidance 3/3
Taunt (1) Req - Improved Growl 2/2
Roar of Fortitude (1) Req - Grace of the Mantis 2/2

Wythel · 07/18/08, 3:23 PM

What's the point of Aspect mastery when you can have Improved tracking instead ?
Not even needed to reach the ultimate. LK is not released and it's already a waste.

Zurai · 07/18/08, 3:30 PM

Originally Posted by Wythel

What's the point of Aspect mastery when you can have Improved tracking instead ?

Easy: Having both. This is an example.

Doodicus · 07/18/08, 3:38 PM

No one commented on it so I'll explain why I was asking about reapplication of stings. Could be that no ones know because it wouldn't be relevant with the current game.

Anyway, if the sting timers are 'refreshed' when you reapply a sting and Blizz is intending buffs to have a memory of how much damage they do then would it be conceivable to keep a sting up during a long fight and keep it ticking away. Then when you do the chimera shot it will be more efficient the longer you keep up the sting.

However if the sting buff is replaced by a new application then yeah, other than the Scorpid sting it looks like crap.

It might be easy for someone in the beta to test on Dr. Boom or something.

Sean · 07/18/08, 3:42 PM

The Chimera shot doesn't work on how much a shot has done - the extra damage from it is from the total value of whatever sting it eats. IE if your Serpent does 1000 damage, it'll eat the Sting and then do 400 extra damage regardless of how long its been up.

Kigale · 07/18/08, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Doodicus

No one commented on it so I'll explain why I was asking about reapplication of stings. Could be that no ones know because it wouldn't be relevant with the current game.

Anyway, if the sting timers are 'refreshed' when you reapply a sting and Blizz is intending buffs to have a memory of how much damage they do then would it be conceivable to keep a sting up during a long fight and keep it ticking away. Then when you do the chimera shot it will be more efficient the longer you keep up the sting.

However if the sting buff is replaced by a new application then yeah, other than the Scorpid sting it looks like crap.

It might be easy for someone in the beta to test on Dr. Boom or something.

This is interesting, and it would force people to dispel stings in pvp asap or eat a huge chimera shot. But this would also mean firing a chimera shot right after a sting would be useless. I think it will operate like Swiftmend, consuming 1 sting and giving a bonus based on one application.

EDIT: Sean beat me to it. His word is much better than my speculation

Cheeky · 07/18/08, 3:45 PM

And word on whether or not haste effects the GCD?

I've done some preliminary modeling of the talents/mechanics, and here is what I'm getting for today's 41/20/0 build (no changes to pet model yet.)

Total DPS for Hunter - Basic Rotation	
Auto Shot	810.82
Steady Shot	938.08
Pet		619.23
Total		2368.13

That's just an Auto/Steady rotation. Yellow/Pet damage completely dominates Auto Shot, so unless haste scales yellow damage in some way it's a pretty worthless stat. All based on my typical raid buffs (LotP, GoA/SoE, 2xFI) and current gear.

(That factors in Rapid Fire too, but not drums or Bloodlust yet.)

For anyone interested that's a 200+ DPS advantage over 2.4.3 mechanics. Mostly from increasing the frequency of specials for ~1.8 to 1.5 seconds, and no haste cap on Auto Shot.

Edit: I'm modeling the new talents as fast as I can. Hope to have something available tonight for people to play around with.

Doodicus · 07/18/08, 3:48 PM

I only have seen the tool tip off MMO Champion. I guess I just assumed with wording like 'damage done' and 'mana drained' it would track how much the sting had done. So is there another more accurate tool tip for the effect you're describing? Or is the tool tip that misleading?

Sean · 07/18/08, 3:48 PM

I don't exactly know how to test the GCD or I'd go and do it right now.

Steady Shot is now a 2s cast time, btw, and haste does not lower it at all in the tooltip.

Sean · 07/18/08, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by Doodicus

I only have seen the tool tip off MMO Champion. I guess I just assumed with wording like 'damage done' and 'mana drained' it would track how much the sting had done. So is there another more accurate tool tip for the effect you're describing? Or is the tool tip that misleading?

No, the tooltip is exactly that - it can just be taken either way. I went and tested it myself, it works as I described it.

Ravenfire · 07/18/08, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by Doodicus

No one commented on it so I'll explain why I was asking about reapplication of stings. Could be that no ones know because it wouldn't be relevant with the current game.

Anyway, if the sting timers are 'refreshed' when you reapply a sting and Blizz is intending buffs to have a memory of how much damage they do then would it be conceivable to keep a sting up during a long fight and keep it ticking away. Then when you do the chimera shot it will be more efficient the longer you keep up the sting.

However if the sting buff is replaced by a new application then yeah, other than the Scorpid sting it looks like crap.

It might be easy for someone in the beta to test on Dr. Boom or something.

To be fair I don't think many people (if any) understood you the first time round. However, now that i understand what your asking.... WOW... just WOW if what your asking turned out true (though i seriously doubt it). Manage to keep a Serpent sting up 100% for a 6 minute boss fight then Chimera shot close to the end.... Rough math yeilds... @ 3000 AP sperent ticks for 300 every 3 seconds,... 360 seconds/3 = 120 ticks,... 36000 damage which Chemira shot would get 40% of... so a 14400+ shot which could crit. really doubt this would happen (although mages with Ignite see similar things so who knows).

Zurai · 07/18/08, 3:51 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Steady Shot is now a 2s cast time, btw, and haste does not lower it at all in the tooltip.

Ouch. That's a BM/Serpent's Swiftness nerf if I've ever seen one.

Doodicus · 07/18/08, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

No, the tooltip is exactly that - it can just be taken either way. I went and tested it myself, it works as I described it.

So no matter when you consume the sting with chimera (after one tick or just before the last tick) the damage will be the same?

That does suck.

KergeKacsa · 07/18/08, 3:55 PM

As I see pet talents are the same on all trees in Tier1 and half of Tier2.
What if i want to reach Tier2 in all trees? I need to spend 3*3 pet talents points to the 8 possible place, or it will be semi-intellect, as I place 3 points in Tier1, and than I reach Tier2 in every tree?
Neither would be too logical.

Cheeky · 07/18/08, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

I don't exactly know how to test the GCD or I'd go and do it right now.

Steady Shot is now a 2s cast time, btw, and haste does not lower it at all in the tooltip.

Ah, that makes a big difference then. It still lines up nicely with Arcane/Multi Cooldowns, and continues to make Improved Arcane Shot a PvP-only talent.

Ok, with a 2 second cast time my DPS in the new mechanics is between 15-20 higher. Talk about well balanced!

Zurai · 07/18/08, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by KergeKacsa

As I see pet talents are the same on all trees in Tier1 and half of Tier2.
What if i want to reach Tier2 in all trees? I need to spend 3*3 pet talents points to the 8 possible place, or it will be semi-intellect, as I place 3 points in Tier1, and than I reach Tier2 in every tree?
Neither would be too logical.

Pets only have access to a single talent tree, based on their species. Wind Serpents get Cunning, for example.

Sean · 07/18/08, 3:59 PM

Originally Posted by Zurai

Pets only have access to a single talent tree, based on their species. Wind Serpents get Cunning, for example.

Correct.

Each family belongs to only one tree. Cats/Raptors for example go to the Ferocity tree, Wind Serpents the Cunning tree, and Boars the Tenacity tree.

Sean · 07/18/08, 4:03 PM

Okay, strike my previous comments - I loaded up Quartz to see the cast bar and timer (can use addons in beta now, forgot). Haste still effects Steady Shot. It just doesn't show up on the tooltip - I assumed it would.

Sorry about that, I don't have the best of ability to judge tenths of seconds this early. ><

Zurai · 07/18/08, 4:05 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Okay, strike my previous comments - I loaded up Quartz to see the cast bar and timer (can use addons in beta now, forgot). Haste still effects Steady Shot. It just doesn't show up on the tooltip - I assumed it would.

I wondered if that might be the case (they broke the tooltips in the TBC beta, too). The increased cast time sucks, but it's more than balanced out by noclip.

Sean · 07/18/08, 4:16 PM

Originally Posted by Zurai

I wondered if that might be the case (they broke the tooltips in the TBC beta, too). The increased cast time sucks, but it's more than balanced out by noclip.

Yeah. I have a 1.4s steady shot according to Quartz right now with Serpent's Swiftness and 111 haste rating.

I wish Quartz showed the GCD in a numeric value rather than just a little spark traveling in a line and I could confirm that too.

Negative · 07/18/08, 4:16 PM

IMO Imp Aspects will be a waste given you can get a greater effect (and one that scales with gear) out of Careful Aim for less points. Also, I find that pets being forced into a talent tree a bit...disappointing. Can't wait to see if Exotic Pets are worth the extra point in BM, too.

Lucid · 07/18/08, 4:26 PM

Originally Posted by Negative

IMO Imp Aspects will be a waste given you can get a greater effect (and one that scales with gear) out of Careful Aim for less points. Also, I find that pets being forced into a talent tree a bit...disappointing. Can't wait to see if Exotic Pets are worth the extra point in BM, too.

It might be a waste in pve, but it might prove to be useful in arenas where you would be switching aspects (supposedly they don't cost mana anymore). Hawk for bursting, Monkey for when you are being focused and Viper the rest of the time.

BTW: has anyone confirmed the autoshot on the run that was suggested early in this thread?

Zurai · 07/18/08, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by Negative

IMO Imp Aspects will be a waste given you can get a greater effect (and one that scales with gear) out of Careful Aim for less points.

They aren't mutually exclusive. You can get Improved Aspects, Careful Aim, AND Improved Tracking and still be able to get Mortal Shots, Go For The Throat, and pretty much everything useful in the BM tree (depending on how useful certain talents end up being).

No, it's not worth taking INSTEAD OF Careful Aim or Improved Tracking - but you don't have to, so it's cool. It's also got the additional utility of -10% damage taken, for ranged tanking utility and for healer-intensive fights.

Sean · 07/18/08, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Lucid

It might be a waste in pve, but it might prove to be useful in arenas where you would be switching aspects (supposedly they don't cost mana anymore). Hawk for bursting, Monkey for when you are being focused and Viper the rest of the time.

BTW: has anyone confirmed the autoshot on the run that was suggested early in this thread?

I just tried "autoshot on the run" - No, you cannot. However, it does basically fire the instant you stop.

Negative · 07/18/08, 4:32 PM

I'll have to play around with the talents some more when I get home from work. Just trying to toss everything around this morning I wasn't able to fit all three of those in the same build. Will edit with results later.