Terp

"If your at range and can't use Lacerate, so what? You're at range."

 

WarTotem

SUM DURIDS R 4 REIGNE, DEM DURIDS NO LASSERAET!!

Seriously though, your comparison is actually correct; ST is less a DPS boost then melee range buffs, just like Lacerate was not worth giving up range for (way way back pre-patch 1.7, which is now 12 major patches and almost 3 years ago)

I've already proven that getting melee buffs > ST as long as there is either a Abomination's Might or Windfury totem to be gained, so I don't see what point you could possible try to make here.


[E] Just to state the obvious; my first 'sentence' here was a sarcastic reference to Lacerate now being a Druid skill. <3 Alamo

 

Steelfleece

Now, I can't claim to know this for a fact, but I'm pretty certain that if Bloodbath says it deals more damage to "enraged" targets, then it's only going to affect buffs that specifically have the "Enrage" spell type, not just any buff that happens to say "enraged" somewhere in the text.

As for Sniper Training, all I can say is that I hope they consider extending the range of most of the currently short-range buff effects to 45 yards. They have done this in the past, right?

 

TrevvyTrev

Well, we should probably keep in mind that the tooltip for Bloodbath was written before they started changing frenzies to enrages and enrages to frenzies and clarifying berserks. Maybe it will be updated to apply to "frenzied" targets, and the frenzy references will be removed from Tranq Shot, for example. It actually makes more sense for Bloodbath to work on the things that hunters can't dispel, anyway. It seems odd for warriors to have an abilty that increases their damage against targets with a buff that hunters are going to dispel as soon as they see it (because of the CD on tranq, hunters will tend to save it for use against an enrage, since no one else can dispel those, and the healers are going to want enrages dispelled because it makes their job easier).

 

Jawbone

That is probably one of the most logical comments I have read about Bloodbath vs. (T)BW.

These changes leave me to believe they will be adding more Enrages to random targets in 5-mans and raids. I'm not sure how that is going to pan out. We'll have to wait and see.

Need a god damned beta key.

 

TrevvyTrev

It really sucks when you are *guaranteed* a key because of a Blizzard-sponsored promotion and they still haven't given you one.

But, I digress. Keys don't matter if they listen to feedback and other people are paying attention, which seems to be the case.

 

Jawbone

"Thank you for purchasing our expensive product/ticket/service, guaranteeing you a beta key. Now we're going to distribute multiple waves of them to random people that can click a button. <3's, Blizzard."

Does anyone have any insight on the new itemization? Will it be worthwhile to use all mail with 100% Int -> AP, or are we stuck competing with rogues/druids for leather again?

 

Stommp

Hello all, has there been any discussion on doing away with the stable mechanism? I know that we have 2 new stable slots, but is it still a possiblity (now that we have a pets tab in our spellbook), that we won't have to travel all the way to a stable in order to get a pet?

Being able to switch from a tanking, to a dps, to a pvp pet on the fly without having to trudge to a stable seems like it would be a worthwhile ability.

 

mako

Compare [Vicious Hawkstrider Hauberk] with [Bladed Chaos Tunic].

BCT
42 agi
45 stam
0 int
38 crit
120 ap
210 arpen

VHH
47 agi
64 stam
30 int
104 ap
182 arpen

Both have the same 3 colored sockets and an 8 ap bonus, so that portion will be ignored.

If the basic idea of itemization stays the same, I'm going to say that "rogue leather" will still end up better, but the margin will be smaller than it is right now.

With the 100% int -> ap talent, the difference between these two chests would only be 5 agi, 19 stam, -38 crit, -28 arpen, +14 ap going from the leather to mail one. 30 ap doesn't quite outweigh the crit/arpen.

I have not seen level 80 epic gear yet, so perhaps the items will be more in-line with being equal (or better).

 

KraxisSingular

One can hope they add more Tranqables in 5-mans. That would make it more fun to be Hunter. And of course easier to differentiate the good from the bad. I would love it. I just hope it doesn't degenerate into "OMG needz huntar for TRANQ".... Again.

But it does sound logical for it to be that way. I still don't know what the heck we can tranq and what not because they aren't yet finished explaining what is what, and Tranq is still labled as removing a Frenzy, and Enrage and one Magic. Which can't be true. Until they fix that I'm not certain what to believe.

Bloodbath, would also be logical in that context, yet what is the point of the 4X damage is a Hunter removes it, or even worse is required to remove it. And it wouldn't be the first time that Blizz would missmanage a skill, in this case it can be in several different ways.

 

TrevvyTrev

I seem to remember someone suggesting this and there was a blue response saying they were considering it but wanted to see how the other changes played out more first. If I can get around to finding the post I'll edit this to include it.

 

Jawbone

My hope, and I believe Trev's comment, were along the lines that Tranq would remove an enrage and that Bloodbath would actually work on Frenzied targets, keeping it in line with the spirit of what Enrage was. That's just what I think, though.

Also, thanks for the refresher Mako. I don't have access to either item and am now crying.

 

TrevvyTrev

The big x-factor of course is mana. No one includes the extra mana from int in these calculations now, but things will get complicated depending on how fast we can deplete mana. If, for example, we could only fire 10 shots before needing to switch to Viper, then the value of having a mana pool that gives us an extra shot before having to switch is pretty high. If the time is much longer, or worse still, if we don't really need to switch usually, then having a larger mana pool and extra regen from Viper is less useful. The designers hinted at further chanes to Viper so that's another variable.

The problem with INT is that it does a lot more for everyone else that gets it than it does for us. Spell crit, base mana regen from spirit, mana pool, and quite often, spell power (through talents) are all benefits from INT. Hunters only really get the benefit of mana pool and AP (only if talented) -- the contributions to base mana regen are very low due to hunters' lack of spirit and spam-based mechanics that nullify the 6-second rule, and spell crit only helps a hunter using healthstones, health pots and similar spell effects that use the hunter's spell crit chance. So on hunter gear, it's itemized as though it does a lot (which it does, just not for hunters).

It's thorny. On the one hand, INT is required. We'd be useless without it. But aside from basic functionality, it doesn't do much, and it only gets slightly better if you talent for it. Having to spend talent points to make INT more useful, on top of not benefitting from much of what it offers, makes it a very "expensive" stat. It's one thing to make shamans "pay" to convert INT into attack power -- they get a lot more benefit out of INT by "default" (they have spells), and the talent is to reflect the different itemization choices that enhancement shamans will need to make. Put simply, it's not like resto or elemental shamans need to convert INT to AP, because they don't rely on AP very much anyway. And again, enhancement shamans still benefit from the spell crit granted by INT. (note: I'm not saying that enh shamans get enough out of INT as is. They just get more out of it than hunters, at least).

By contrast, every spec of hunter is forced to use INT by design, and they all use RAP. So why do we have to "pay" to make a stat that we are *forced* to use, benefit us? And after paying for it, why is it still inefficient compared to other stats?

A more sensible hunter design would be: 1 str = 1 MAP, 1 AGI = 1 AP, 1 INT = 1 RAP by default. Talents would do things like, increase MAP by x% of INT (SV), increase AP from TSA by x% of INT (MM) or increase the AP granted by Aspect of the Hawk by x% of INT (BM), just to list some ideas.

 

Mikari

Looks like next week should be interesting for Hunter beta changes

WoW Forums -> Too Little Too Late?

[edit]

Holy shit

 

Jawbone

I have just soiled myself. With glee.

 

Mikari

In regards to animal handler

 

Spiry

Am I the only on hoping that they don't make Aspect Mastery better so that it doesn't muck up BM builds (thinking 49/17/5 and 51/15/5).

If AM becomes too good then we have the Blizzard favoured "not bloat but options", whereby we'd have to make decisions like "is longevity worth it?" and where we're going to trim other talents from...

 

mako

Those changes sound quite pleasant. Got a link to the original thread/post?

 

Disargeria

I feel the same way. I'm hoping Aspect Mastery can just be a "PvP thing" and that we'll be able to make a favorable raid build that includes 5 points in Survival and the important talents in Marks.

Here's a great tool for keeping track and staying on top of blue posts:

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Hunter

 

Mikari

The info is spread over multiple threads.

WoW Forums -> Hunter Discussion

 

• Playered

Int is only required at the point your regeneration cannot sustain you over its cycle (in TBC the 2 min mana potion cycle). Your deficit is only extendable by having more mana.
The closer you get to the break even point the less important Int becomes as you need a consistantly smaller amount to sustain you for the required amount of time.
This is something which will crop up in the end tiers of raiding unless something happens which increases your mana consumption as you progress and which is too easy to mask on the earlier stages of the game.

Haste worked well in this regard for casters but due to the nature of SS never being able to go below the GCD and everything else of importance GCD limited there is unlikely the chance of the situation arising where you will be able to do this.
Honestly if any spell or ability costs mana it should scale its respective GCD via haste in order to allow mana stats to not become invalidated or there should be multiple mana costing shots worth doing providing you can allow for it (ie being able to sustain a 1:1 at starting levels and with the increased mana stats as you progress you can bump it up to a 2:1 sustained rotation).

If you were able to progress beyond a basic shot rotation as your other abilities scaled better with gear then you might be able to induce the Int being useful unless the progressive nature of regeneration scaled at a faster rate to compensate.


Casters have hardly scaled from the spell crit Int provides either way - you might get 1-2% crit extra from going T4-T6?

 

Ravenfire