Combat Ratings at level 80

Whitetooth · 07/30/08, 8:30 PM

Hello, I'm the author of RatingBuster and TankPoints, I've been able to derive most level 80 conversion rates and formulas in my beta testing, which should be useful for WotLK theorycrafting.

Avoidance stats now have diminishing returns
This includes:
1. Dodge from Dodge Rating, Defense Rating, Agility.
2. Parry from Parry Rating, Defense Rating.
3. Chance to be missed from Defense Rating.
(Blue post)

The following is the result of hours of work gathering data from beta servers and then spending even more time running multiple regression analysis on the data.

1. DR for Dodge, Parry, Missed are calculated separately.
2. Base avoidances are not affected by DR. (e.g. Dodge from base Agility, 5% base Parry, 5% base Missed)
3. Death Knight's Parry Rating from base Strength is affected by DR.
4. Direct percentage gains from talents and spells are not affected by DR. (e.g. 5% Dodge from talents, 4% Parry to weapon, 25 Defense to weapon)
5. $c$ and $k$ values depend on class but does not change with level.

6. The DR formula:

$\frac{1}{x'} = \frac{1}{c}+\frac{k}{x}}$

$x'$ is the diminished stat before converting to IEEE754.
$x$ is the stat before diminishing returns.
$c$ is the cap of the stat, and changes with class.
$k$ is is a value that changes with class.

	$k$	$C_p$	$1/C_p$	$C_d$	$1/C_d$	$C_m$	Lv80 Dodge/Agi(3.2.0)	Lv80 Agi/1%Dodge(3.2.0)	Base Dodge(3.2.0)
Warrior	0.9560	47.003525	0.021275	88.129021	0.011347	16	0.01180	84.74576271	3.66400
Paladin	0.9560	47.003525	0.021275	88.129021	0.011347	16	0.01670	59.88023952	3.49430
Hunter	0.9880	145.560408	0.006870	145.560408	0.006870		0.01160	86.20689655	-4.08730
Rogue	0.9880	145.560408	0.006870	145.560408	0.006870		0.02090	47.84688995	2.09570
Priest	0.9830	0	0	150.375940	0.006650		0.01670	59.88023952	3.41780
Deathknight	0.9560	47.003525	0.021275	88.129021	0.011347	16	0.01180	84.74576271	3.66400
Shaman	0.9880	145.560408	0.006870	145.560408	0.006870		0.01670	59.88023952	2.10800
Mage	0.9830	0	0	150.375940	0.006650		0.01700	58.82352941	3.65870
Warlock	0.9830	0	0	150.375940	0.006650		0.01670	59.88023952	2.42110
Druid	0.9720	0	0	116.890707	0.008555		0.02090	47.84688995	5.60970

If you're interested in all the work thats been done to arrive at these results, everything is well documented in the following posts in this thread:
DR effect of avoidance stat observed, research begins
Defense data from build 8970
Cross testing with Defense, Dodge Rating and Parry Rating
Parry from Parry Rating and Defense
The DR formula, and Parry calculations
Dodge calculations
Druid dodge cap calculation
Level does not affect the cap
GetAgiPerDodge() algorithm
The miss cap

Lets do a quick example:

Level 60 warrior
Defense without any gear: 300
Dodge% without any gear: 7.0076994895935
Parry% without any gear: 5
Dodge rating: 0
Parry rating: 0
Agility without any gear: 83

Put on some gear which gives
+8 Defense
+24 Dodge Rating
+20 Parry Rating
+21 Agility

How much Dodge% and Parry% do I have now?

Solution:
For a level 60 Warrior
1 Defense = 0.04% Dodge + 0.04% Parry (the rest are not important for this problem)
12 Dodge Rating = 1% Dodge
15 Parry Rating = 1% Parry
1 Agility = 0.0427% Dodge

$Dodge=8*0.04+\frac{24}{12}+21*0.0427=3.2167$
$Parry=8*0.04+\frac{20}{15}=1.653333333$

$Dodge_{DR}=\frac{1}{\frac{1}{c_d}+\frac{0.956}{Dodge}}=3.241011307$
$Parry_{DR}=\frac{1}{\frac{1}{c_p}+\frac{0.956}{Parry}}=1.668054461$

Add the base values and we have:
Dodge = 10.2487108
Parry = 6.668054461

Answer: (These are the values taken in game)
Dodge = 10.248710632324
Parry = 6.6680541038513

Level 80 Combat Ratings and Stats

The following data are verified correct for build 3.2.0.10147 (7/29/2009).

Rating	Level 60	Level 70	Level 80
Expertise(-1% Dodge/Parry)	10	15.76923275	32.78998947
Defense Skill	1.5	2.365385056	4.918498039
Resilience	28.75	45.33654404	94.27122498
Dodge	13.8	21.76153945	45.25018692
Parry	13.8	21.76153945	45.25018692
Block	5	7.884614944	16.39499474
Hit	10	15.76923275	32.78998947
Spell Hit	8	12.61538506	26.23199272
Critical Strike	14	22.07692337	45.90598679
Spell Critical Strike	14	22.07692337	45.90598679
Haste	10	15.76923275	32.78998947
Spell Haste	10	15.76923275	32.78998947
Armor Penetration(3.2.0)	3.756097412	5.92307663	12.31623993
Armor Penetration(3.2.2)	4.268292514	6.730768897	13.99572719

3.2.0 changes
- Dodge Rating: The amount of dodge rating required per percentage of dodge has been increased by 15%.
- Parry Rating: The amount of parry rating required per percentage of parry has been reduced by 8%.
- Resilience: The amount of resilience needed to reduce critical strike chance, critical strike damage and overall damage has been increased by 15%.

To derive the formula, I used haste data from level 70 to 100:

Level	Rating
70	15.76923275
71	16.96694183
72	18.25562477
73	19.6421833
74	21.13405418
75	22.73923683
76	24.46633911
77	26.32461739
78	28.32403564
79	30.47531509
80	32.78998947
81	35.2804718
82	37.9601059
83	40.84327316
84	43.9454155
85	47.28318024
86	50.87445068
87	54.73849106
88	58.89601517
89	63.36930847
90	68.18236542
91	73.36097717
92	78.93292236
93	84.92807007
94	91.37856293
95	98.31898499
96	105.7865524
97	113.8212967
98	122.4663086
99	131.7679138
100	141.776001

With the help of curve fitting tools and decimals to fractions algorithm:
Percentage = Rating / RatingBase / H
70 - 80: H = (82/52)*(131/63)^((level-70)/10)

And for reference, the values for level 1 to 70:
60 - 70: H = 82/(262-3*level)
10 - 60: H = (level-8)/52
1 - 10: H = 2/52

(RatingBase is the conversion at level 60)

Crit Per Agi	Level 70	Level 80
Warrior	0.0333	0.016
Paladin	0.0403	0.0192
Hunter	0.025	0.012
Rogue	0.025	0.012
Priest	0.0401	0.0192
Death Knight	0.0333	0.016
Shaman	0.025	0.012
Mage	0.0407	0.0196
Warlock	0.0412	0.0198
Druid	0.025	0.012

Agi required for 1% Crit	Level 70	Level 80
Warrior	30.03003003	62.5
Paladin	24.81389578	52.08333333
Hunter	40	83.33333333
Rogue	40	83.33333333
Priest	24.93765586	52.08333333
Death Knight	30.03003003	62.5
Shaman	40	83.33333333
Mage	24.57002457	51.02040816
Warlock	24.27184466	50.50505051
Druid	40	83.33333333

Full table for Crit Per Agi, precise formula yet to be found

Level	Warrior	Paladin	Hunter	Rogue	Priest	Death Knight	Shaman	Mage	Warlock	Druid
1	0.258700	0.216400	0.284000	0.447600	0.091200	0.258700	0.103900	0.077300	0.118900	0.126200
2	0.226400	0.216400	0.283400	0.429000	0.091200	0.226400	0.103900	0.077300	0.118900	0.126200
3	0.226400	0.216400	0.271100	0.411800	0.091200	0.226400	0.099000	0.077300	0.113200	0.120200
4	0.226400	0.192400	0.253000	0.381300	0.086800	0.226400	0.099000	0.073600	0.113200	0.120200
5	0.226400	0.192400	0.243000	0.367700	0.086800	0.226400	0.094500	0.073600	0.113200	0.114800
6	0.201200	0.192400	0.233700	0.355000	0.086800	0.201200	0.094500	0.073600	0.108100	0.114800
7	0.201200	0.192400	0.225100	0.332100	0.086800	0.201200	0.094500	0.073600	0.108100	0.109800
8	0.201200	0.173200	0.217100	0.321700	0.082900	0.201200	0.090300	0.073600	0.108100	0.109800
9	0.201200	0.173200	0.205100	0.312000	0.082900	0.201200	0.090300	0.073600	0.103400	0.105200
10	0.201200	0.173200	0.198400	0.294100	0.082900	0.201200	0.086600	0.070300	0.103400	0.097100
11	0.181100	0.173200	0.184800	0.264000	0.082900	0.181100	0.086600	0.070300	0.099100	0.093500
12	0.181100	0.173200	0.167000	0.239400	0.079300	0.181100	0.083100	0.070300	0.099100	0.093500
13	0.164600	0.157400	0.154700	0.214500	0.079300	0.164600	0.083100	0.070300	0.099100	0.090200
14	0.164600	0.157400	0.144100	0.198000	0.079300	0.164600	0.079900	0.070300	0.095900	0.090200
15	0.150900	0.144300	0.133000	0.177500	0.079300	0.150900	0.077000	0.067200	0.094400	0.084200
16	0.150900	0.144300	0.126700	0.166000	0.076000	0.150900	0.074200	0.067200	0.092800	0.084200
17	0.150900	0.144300	0.119400	0.156000	0.076000	0.150900	0.074200	0.067200	0.091400	0.081400
18	0.139300	0.133200	0.111700	0.145000	0.076000	0.139300	0.071700	0.067200	0.089900	0.078900
19	0.139300	0.133200	0.106000	0.135500	0.072900	0.139300	0.071700	0.067200	0.088500	0.078900
20	0.129300	0.123700	0.099800	0.127100	0.072900	0.129300	0.067000	0.064400	0.087100	0.070100
21	0.129300	0.123700	0.096200	0.119700	0.072900	0.129300	0.067000	0.064400	0.085700	0.070100
22	0.129300	0.123700	0.091000	0.114400	0.072900	0.129300	0.064900	0.064400	0.084400	0.068200
23	0.120700	0.115400	0.087200	0.108400	0.070100	0.120700	0.064900	0.064400	0.083100	0.066400
24	0.113200	0.108200	0.082900	0.104000	0.070100	0.113200	0.063000	0.061800	0.081800	0.066400
25	0.113200	0.108200	0.079700	0.098000	0.070100	0.113200	0.061100	0.061800	0.080500	0.063100
26	0.106500	0.108200	0.076700	0.093600	0.067500	0.106500	0.059400	0.061800	0.079200	0.063100
27	0.106500	0.101900	0.073400	0.090300	0.067500	0.106500	0.059400	0.061800	0.078000	0.061600
28	0.100600	0.101900	0.070900	0.086500	0.067500	0.100600	0.057700	0.061800	0.076800	0.060100
29	0.100600	0.096200	0.068000	0.083000	0.065100	0.100600	0.057700	0.059500	0.075600	0.060100
30	0.095300	0.096200	0.065400	0.079200	0.065100	0.095300	0.054700	0.059500	0.074500	0.054900
31	0.095300	0.091100	0.063700	0.076800	0.065100	0.095300	0.054700	0.059500	0.073300	0.053700
32	0.090500	0.091100	0.061400	0.074100	0.062900	0.090500	0.053300	0.059500	0.072200	0.053700
33	0.090500	0.086600	0.059200	0.071500	0.062900	0.090500	0.052000	0.057300	0.071100	0.052600
34	0.086200	0.086600	0.057500	0.069100	0.062900	0.086200	0.052000	0.057300	0.070000	0.051500
35	0.086200	0.082500	0.055600	0.066400	0.060800	0.086200	0.049500	0.057300	0.069000	0.050500
36	0.082300	0.082500	0.054100	0.064300	0.060800	0.082300	0.048300	0.055200	0.067900	0.049500
37	0.082300	0.082500	0.052400	0.062800	0.060800	0.082300	0.048300	0.055200	0.066900	0.048500
38	0.078700	0.078700	0.050800	0.060900	0.058800	0.078700	0.047200	0.055200	0.065900	0.048500
39	0.078700	0.078700	0.049300	0.059200	0.058800	0.078700	0.047200	0.055200	0.064900	0.047600
40	0.075500	0.075300	0.048100	0.057200	0.058800	0.075500	0.045200	0.053300	0.063900	0.044300
41	0.072400	0.075300	0.047000	0.055600	0.057000	0.072400	0.044200	0.053300	0.063000	0.043500
42	0.072400	0.075300	0.045700	0.054200	0.057000	0.072400	0.044200	0.053300	0.062000	0.043500
43	0.069600	0.072100	0.044400	0.052800	0.055300	0.069600	0.043300	0.053300	0.061100	0.042800
44	0.069600	0.069300	0.043300	0.051200	0.055300	0.069600	0.042400	0.051500	0.060200	0.042100
45	0.067100	0.069300	0.042100	0.049700	0.055300	0.067100	0.041600	0.051500	0.059300	0.040700
46	0.067100	0.066600	0.041300	0.048600	0.053600	0.067100	0.040700	0.051500	0.058400	0.040100
47	0.064700	0.066600	0.040200	0.047400	0.053600	0.064700	0.040000	0.049900	0.057600	0.040100
48	0.062400	0.064100	0.039100	0.046400	0.052100	0.062400	0.039200	0.049900	0.056700	0.039400
49	0.062400	0.064100	0.038200	0.045400	0.052100	0.062400	0.039200	0.049900	0.055900	0.038800
50	0.060400	0.061800	0.037300	0.044000	0.052100	0.060400	0.037800	0.048300	0.055100	0.036600
51	0.060400	0.059700	0.036600	0.043100	0.050700	0.060400	0.037100	0.048300	0.054300	0.036100
52	0.058400	0.059700	0.035800	0.042200	0.050700	0.058400	0.036500	0.048300	0.053500	0.035600
53	0.056600	0.057700	0.035000	0.041200	0.049300	0.056600	0.036500	0.046800	0.052700	0.035100
54	0.056600	0.057700	0.034100	0.040400	0.049300	0.056600	0.035800	0.046800	0.051900	0.035100
55	0.054900	0.055900	0.033400	0.039400	0.048000	0.054900	0.034600	0.046800	0.051200	0.034100
56	0.054900	0.055900	0.032800	0.038600	0.048000	0.054900	0.034100	0.045500	0.050400	0.033700
57	0.053300	0.054100	0.032100	0.037800	0.046800	0.053300	0.033500	0.045500	0.049700	0.033200
58	0.051700	0.052500	0.031400	0.037000	0.046800	0.051700	0.033500	0.045500	0.049000	0.032800
59	0.051700	0.052500	0.030700	0.036400	0.045600	0.051700	0.033000	0.044200	0.048300	0.032400
60	0.050300	0.050900	0.030100	0.035500	0.045600	0.050300	0.032000	0.044200	0.047600	0.030800
61	0.047700	0.049500	0.029700	0.033400	0.044500	0.047700	0.031000	0.044200	0.046900	0.029900
62	0.045300	0.048100	0.029000	0.032200	0.044600	0.045300	0.030400	0.044200	0.046200	0.029500
63	0.043100	0.046800	0.028400	0.030700	0.044300	0.043100	0.029400	0.042900	0.045500	0.028500
64	0.042100	0.045600	0.027900	0.029600	0.043400	0.042100	0.028500	0.042900	0.044900	0.027900
65	0.040200	0.044400	0.027300	0.028600	0.042700	0.040200	0.028100	0.042900	0.044200	0.027400
66	0.038500	0.044400	0.027000	0.027600	0.042100	0.038500	0.027300	0.041800	0.043600	0.026900
67	0.037000	0.042200	0.026400	0.026800	0.041500	0.037000	0.026700	0.041800	0.043000	0.026500
68	0.035500	0.042200	0.025900	0.026200	0.041300	0.035500	0.026100	0.041800	0.042400	0.025800
69	0.034200	0.041200	0.025400	0.025600	0.041200	0.034200	0.025500	0.040700	0.041800	0.025400
70	0.033500	0.040300	0.025000	0.025000	0.040100	0.033500	0.025000	0.040700	0.041200	0.025000
71	0.031200	0.036800	0.023200	0.023200	0.037200	0.031200	0.023200	0.037700	0.038400	0.023200
72	0.028700	0.034600	0.021600	0.021600	0.034400	0.028700	0.021600	0.035100	0.035500	0.021600
73	0.026600	0.032100	0.020100	0.020100	0.032000	0.026600	0.020100	0.032900	0.033000	0.020100
74	0.024800	0.029900	0.018700	0.018700	0.029900	0.024800	0.018700	0.030300	0.030900	0.018700
75	0.023200	0.027500	0.017300	0.017300	0.027600	0.023200	0.017300	0.028100	0.028700	0.017300
76	0.021600	0.025800	0.016100	0.016100	0.025700	0.021600	0.016100	0.026200	0.026400	0.016100
77	0.019900	0.024000	0.015000	0.015000	0.024000	0.019900	0.015000	0.024200	0.024500	0.015000
78	0.018500	0.022200	0.013900	0.013900	0.022200	0.018500	0.013900	0.022700	0.022900	0.013900
79	0.017200	0.020600	0.012900	0.012900	0.020700	0.017200	0.012900	0.020900	0.021200	0.012900
80	0.016000	0.019200	0.012000	0.012000	0.019200	0.016000	0.012000	0.019600	0.019800	0.012000

Spell Crit Per Int is the same for all classes over level 70 (even for warlocks)

Level	Spell Crit Per Int	Int required for 1% Spell Crit
70	0.0125	80
71	0.0116	86.2068944
72	0.0108	92.59259244
73	0.0101	99.00990313
74	0.0093	107.526879
75	0.0087	114.9425283
76	0.0081	123.4567927
77	0.0075	133.333327
78	0.007	142.857139
79	0.0065	153.8461534
80	0.006	166.6666709

ManaRegen(SPI, INT, LEVEL) = (0.001+SPI*BASE_REGEN[LEVEL]*(INT^0.5))*5

	Level 70	Level 80
BASE_REGEN	0.009327	0.005575

Level	BASE_REGEN	Level	BASE_REGEN	Level	BASE_REGEN	Level	BASE_REGEN
1	0.034965001	21	0.019733001	41	0.013724	61	0.010701
2	0.034191001	22	0.019156	42	0.013522	62	0.010523
3	0.033465002	23	0.018819001	43	0.013363	63	0.010291
4	0.032527	24	0.018316999	44	0.013176	64	0.01012
5	0.031661	25	0.017936001	45	0.012996	65	0.009969
6	0.031076999	26	0.017577	46	0.012854	66	0.009808
7	0.030523	27	0.017201001	47	0.012687	67	0.009652
8	0.029995	28	0.016919	48	0.01254	68	0.009553
9	0.029307	29	0.016581999	49	0.012384	69	0.009446
10	0.028662	30	0.016233999	50	0.012233	70	0.009327
11	0.027585	31	0.015995	51	0.012114	71	0.008859
12	0.026215	32	0.015707999	52	0.011973	72	0.008415
13	0.025381001	33	0.015464	53	0.01186	73	0.007993
14	0.024301	34	0.015204	54	0.011715	74	0.007592
15	0.023345999	35	0.014957	55	0.011576	75	0.007211
16	0.022748999	36	0.014745	56	0.011473	76	0.006849
17	0.021958999	37	0.014496	57	0.011342	77	0.006506
18	0.021387	38	0.014302	58	0.011245	78	0.006179
19	0.020791	39	0.014095	59	0.011111	79	0.005869
20	0.020121001	40	0.013896	60	0.011	80	0.005575

3.1.0.9614

Level	BASE_REGEN	Level	BASE_REGEN	Level	BASE_REGEN	Level	BASE_REGEN
1	0.020979	21	0.011840	41	0.008235	61	0.006421
2	0.020515	22	0.011494	42	0.008113	62	0.006314
3	0.020079	23	0.011292	43	0.008018	63	0.006175
4	0.019516	24	0.010990	44	0.007906	64	0.006072
5	0.018997	25	0.010761	45	0.007798	65	0.005981
6	0.018646	26	0.010546	46	0.007713	66	0.005885
7	0.018314	27	0.010321	47	0.007612	67	0.005791
8	0.017997	28	0.010151	48	0.007524	68	0.005732
9	0.017584	29	0.009949	49	0.007430	69	0.005668
10	0.017197	30	0.009740	50	0.007340	70	0.005596
11	0.016551	31	0.009597	51	0.007268	71	0.005316
12	0.015729	32	0.009425	52	0.007184	72	0.005049
13	0.015229	33	0.009278	53	0.007116	73	0.004796
14	0.014580	34	0.009123	54	0.007029	74	0.004555
15	0.014008	35	0.008974	55	0.006945	75	0.004327
16	0.013650	36	0.008847	56	0.006884	76	0.004110
17	0.013175	37	0.008698	57	0.006805	77	0.003903
18	0.012832	38	0.008581	58	0.006747	78	0.003708
19	0.012475	39	0.008457	59	0.006667	79	0.003522
20	0.012073	40	0.008338	60	0.006600	80	0.003345

Roywyn · 07/30/08, 8:54 PM

Thanks a lot!

Seems they made the rating curve even steeper, it used to be an exponential with base 101/52 instead of 131/36 from 70 to 80 in Vulajin's alpha test.

Not sure how you extract data from the client, but is it possible to extract data for agi(int) => (spell)crit and the spirit regeneration ( = levelfactor * sqrt(int) * spi) from it as well?

Whitetooth · 07/30/08, 9:02 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Thanks a lot!

Seems they made the rating curve even steeper, it used to be an exponential with base 101/52 instead of 131/36 from 70 to 80 in Vulajin's alpha test.

Not sure how you extract data from the client, but is it possible to extract data for agi(int) => (spell)crit and the spirit regeneration ( = levelfactor * sqrt(int) * spi) from it as well?

Yes, its possible to extract those data as well.
In fact, RatingBuster's stat breakdown feature was made possible by coding the data in it.

Roywyn · 07/31/08, 4:34 AM

Originally Posted by Whitetooth

Yes, its possible to extract those data as well.
In fact, RatingBuster's stat breakdown feature was made possible by coding the data in it.

Well, could you give us those numbers too? Or don't you simply have the data yet?

The level 80 values for int=>crit (this was the same for all classes at 70), the spirit-regen multiplier (unified), and the agi=>dodge/crit multipliers for War/Pal/DK/Hun/Sha/Rog/Dru is what people are interested in I thnk.

[Edit]: Thanks a ton! So it's a flat 131/63 multiplier of level 70 values on everything but mana regen, makes things easier to project

Whitetooth · 07/31/08, 5:20 AM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Well, could you give us those numbers too? Or don't you simply have the data yet?

The level 80 values for int=>crit (this was the same for all classes at 70), the spirit-regen multiplier (unified), and the agi=>dodge/crit multipliers for War/Pal/DK/Hun/Sha/Rog/Dru is what people are interested in I thnk.

Sure, first post is updated with the data.

Zurgat · 07/31/08, 5:20 AM

Originally Posted by Whitetooth

Hello, I'm the author of RatingBuster. Although I'm still waiting for my beta key, I've been able to derive the level 80 conversion rates and the formula from the client.

Note that the following data are only verified correct for build 3.0.1.8681 (7/27/08), and may change during beta testing.

Excellent work, I was scouting around for this data, but feared we'd have to wait for the beta to unlock lvl 80.
I've just added a linkback to this post for now.
Is there an official site for Rating Buster, other than the addon download sites?

As Roywyn stated, the agility > crit conversions would be a great help.
For example to expand the http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t19926-r...s_spreadsheet/
Edit: Seems you managed to hit reply a few seconds before me.

This also means we can update the article at Combat rating system - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft soon.
Unless somebody beats me to it, I'll have a look at inserting those values later this week.

Whitetooth · 07/31/08, 5:35 AM

Originally Posted by Zurgat

Is there an official site for Rating Buster, other than the addon download sites?

Nope, I haven't bothered to set one up yet :p

Densor · 07/31/08, 5:42 AM

Those numbers look awful. Everything took such a huge hit in effectiveness, compared to the change from 60 to 70.

Also Whitetooth, your value for Spell Crit per Int at level 80 in your first post is off by a factor of 100, I believe. 0.00006 crit per int doesn't coincide with 166.66 int per crit.

BFG · 07/31/08, 5:43 AM

Hmm... so ratings roughly double? Don't you think that raw stats will have to keep up with ratings (say, agi and crit rating) and will double too? And with lvl 80 epics we'll see tanks with 3000 stamina? Melee with 6-8k AP?

Whitetooth · 07/31/08, 5:50 AM

Originally Posted by Densor

Also Whitetooth, your value for Spell Crit per Int at level 80 in your first post is off by a factor of 100, I believe. 0.00006 crit per int doesn't coincide with 166.66 int per crit.

Fixed, thank you

Akka · 07/31/08, 6:01 AM

God, Blizzard sure entered in full Monty Haul mode.
It's bordering ridiculous how much stats hit a brick wall in efficiency, number inflation will be huge.

Oh, and grats for your add-on, pal, this is one of the rare real "must-have" in the game

Prinsesa · 07/31/08, 6:05 AM

Originally Posted by BFG

Hmm... so ratings roughly double? Don't you think that raw stats will have to keep up with ratings (say, agi and crit rating) and will double too? And with lvl 80 epics we'll see tanks with 3000 stamina? Melee with 6-8k AP?

I'm not sure of the sources (only read about it on the Warlock WOTLK thread), but apparently the spell hit cap has been reduced to 9%, from 16%, and the 1% unremovable miss rate has been abolished as well.

I don't know about melee/ranged hit, but then we're going to see more hit affecting abilities (Winter's Grasp, Elemental Oath, Improved Faerie Fire, etc.)

It did concern me though that 660 Defense Rating was still not enough to hit 5.6% crit reduction for tanks. That was with the highest defense items Wowhead has datamined, double def trinkets and all def enchants everywhere, including Vindicator's Armor Kits.

Akka · 07/31/08, 6:10 AM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

I'm not sure of the sources (only read about it on the Warlock WOTLK thread), but apparently the spell hit cap has been reduced to 9%, from 16%, and the 1% unremovable miss rate has been abolished as well.

I don't know about melee/ranged hit, but then we're going to see more hit affecting abilities (Winter's Grasp, Elemental Oath, Improved Faerie Fire, etc.)

It probably simply is the effect of the uniformization trend, bringing together most of the stats.
With hit and crit rating being applicable to both magic and mélée, it's somehow logical that magic and mélée now share the same hit cap.

I hope this simplification will not make the game blander, but I see the logic behind in any case, and I think nobody will miss the unremovable 1 % resist.

Zurgat · 07/31/08, 6:34 AM

Originally Posted by Akka

Oh, and grats for your add-on, pal, this is one of the rare real "must-have" in the game

Which sort of makes me wonder when blizzard will implement his addon as a default interface, as they have done in the past with many other "must haves". Even a threat meter is in the works.

◊ Lactose · 07/31/08, 6:42 AM

In your Agi required for 1% crit table, you've got Hunter listed 4 times.
You're missing the following:
Rogue - 40 - 83.33333333
Shaman - 40 - 83.33333333
Druid - 83.33333333

Numbers derived from your Crit Pet Agi table.
Looks like you just need to rename 3 of the Hunter labels.

Akka · 07/31/08, 7:21 AM

One thing that worry me, though : with such a steep decrease in stat effectiveness for each level gained, the levelling phase is about to see a crushing reduction in efficiency for the character.
I'm afraid that, then, this whole phase, with all the regions and dungeons created for it, will be seen only as an irritating farming moment where your character only lose power, and that it will be largely despised and neglected, people only having fun anew at level 80, where their character will finally be able to progress again.
Also, it will make BC items obsolete even faster than it made pre-BC items obsolete in BC.

All in all, isn't this "wiping the state clean" far too harsh, making the same mistake as BC again ?
Especially as blue seemed to say that WotLK wouldn't be as severe as BC in this area, while these coefficients imply it will, actually, be WORSE.

Ellyh · 07/31/08, 7:33 AM

Well it makes specs that are less reliant on ratings for power scaling such as shadow priests, afflocks and holy priests more powerful relative to their comrades and their gear lasts longer.

Valerian · 07/31/08, 9:22 AM

Originally Posted by Akka

One thing that worry me, though : with such a steep decrease in stat effectiveness for each level gained, the levelling phase is about to see a crushing reduction in efficiency for the character.
I'm afraid that, then, this whole phase, with all the regions and dungeons created for it, will be seen only as an irritating farming moment where your character only lose power, and that it will be largely despised and neglected, people only having fun anew at level 80, where their character will finally be able to progress again.
Also, it will make BC items obsolete even faster than it made pre-BC items obsolete in BC.

All in all, isn't this "wiping the state clean" far too harsh, making the same mistake as BC again ?
Especially as blue seemed to say that WotLK wouldn't be as severe as BC in this area, while these coefficients imply it will, actually, be WORSE.

From the items we've seen Sunwell/late BT gear doesn't appear to get replaced all that soon (mainly due to lack of sockets). Thus is the rating change is that large, it will simply be a drop in effective power rather than an obsoleting of all the old gear super fast.

• Vulajin · 07/31/08, 9:27 AM

Erm. So, I derived this information a while ago, actually, and my formula doesn't quite agree with yours. Here's my thread on the beta forums (reposted from the alpha forums):

WoW Forums -> Combat Ratings from 70 to 80

The formula as I have it is H = (82/52)*(101/52)^((Level-70)/10). I've found this formula to be accurate for every data point I've seen so far.

Additionally I'm curious as to where you found the information on agility-to-crit conversions.

(edit) I just logged in to beta and it looks like they've reduced the rating scaling curve. So 101/52 is most certainly not accurate any longer. (edit 2) Your new value of 131/63 seems to check out for this build.

Shai · 07/31/08, 9:35 AM

Perhaps I misunderstand something, but at lvl 74 227 haste rating converts to exactly 10% haste on my character sheet. Using your table, that would match the expected value at lvl 75. What am I missing?

edit: Roywyn's right. My bad for not checking the actual effect on spells.

Roywyn · 07/31/08, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Shai

Perhaps I misunderstand something, but at lvl 74 227 haste rating converts to exactly 10% haste on my character sheet. Using your table, that would match the expected value at lvl 75. What am I missing?

Your character sheet rounds down haste and doesn't display fractional haste. (Which is kind of stupid.)
You do however get the full haste, even though the sheet rounds down.

At 74 with 227 haste, the table says you'd have 227/21.134... = 10.74098... % haste.
Is your Drain Soul 15s/1.1074098 = 13.545s cast time (spell book should round up to 13.55s)?
If it is, then you have the full 10.74098% haste and the table is correct.

If you hit 75 with the same gear, you should have 227/22.739... = 9.9828% haste.
The character sheet should then display 9% and Drain Soul should be 15/1.09828 = 13.5677s cast time (spell book should round to 13.57s).
If that's true as well it confirms the table.

Also, what's up with people complaining about the increase of stats/rating needed?

Let's take a simple model:
* At 70 in some blues you have 1k AP and a 70 DPS weapon. About 140 character pane DPS.
To increase that by 1%, you'd need 19 AP or 1% hit.
* At 80 in some blues you have perhaps 2k AP and a 120 DPS weapon, around 260 character pane DPS.
To increase that by 1%, you'd need 37 AP or 1% hit.

37 AP at 80 costs about twice as much as 19 AP at 70. That's why 1% hit at 80 has to cost about twice as much as 1% hit at 70.
The model is simple, but it shows the basic thing about scaling. Doubling the ratings/stats needed looks pretty natural.

Erdluf · 07/31/08, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Also, what's up with people complaining about the increase of stats/rating needed?

The gear reset is bigger than it was for TBC. For TBC, going from 60 to 70, we needed 58% more crit rating to keep the same crit%. At 80, we'll need 108% more crit rating than we did at 70. The same thing holds for most of these stats.

Now it may be that the gear reset is more gradual at first (outland greens at 61 were a huge jump over Azeroth greens at 60).

I'm not complaining about this. I'd find it pretty sad to go 5 levels before getting a gear upgrade.

• constantius · 07/31/08, 12:06 PM

Not sure if you care, but the current model is predicting a level 80 regen formula coefficient of 0.007029 (as compared to Live level 70 of 0.0093271). I don't believe RatingBuster currently has Spirit->Regen formula setup, but if you happen to want to add it, those are the numbers.

Full formula taking Intellect & Spirit to OO5SR regen at level 80:

5 * 0.007029 * sqrt {Int} * Spi

Borodin · 07/31/08, 12:19 PM

Good work but as I understand it the following pairs of stats will be merged into single Ratings:

Hit / Spell Hit = Hit
Crit / Spell Crit = Crit
Haste / Spell Haste = Haste

Can someone from beta confirm how these got merged? Are they simply the average of the previous 2 stats or what?

Sydane · 07/31/08, 12:25 PM

It is rather amusing (and somewhat annoying) to think that hitting level 80, still wearing Sunwell gear, characters will actually be a lot weaker, except for the increase in base damage from spells.

The massive increase also means trinkets like [The Skull of Gul'dan] won't remain useful for nearly as long as some of the items like [Neltharion's Tear] did, which is probably a good thing.

Originally Posted by Borodin

Good work but as I understand it the following pairs of stats will be merged into single Ratings:

Hit / Spell Hit = Hit
Crit / Spell Crit = Crit
Haste / Spell Haste = Haste

Can someone from beta confirm how these got merged? Are they simply the average of the previous 2 stats or what?

The ratings on gear were merged, nothing else. The ratings for individual character stats remain the same as now. A piece of gear with +Hit on it will give you both spell hit and melee hit, but in different percentage amounts.