Combat Ratings at level 80 - Page 12

Mijae · 09/26/08, 5:33 PM

Just to verify, does the Base Dodge listed in your first table include dodge from racial agility? If so, are stat gains on base agility from modifiers like Blessing of Kings affected by DR.

So the pre-DR formula would be:

defense * 0.04 + (totalAgility - raceAgility) * dodgePerAgi + dodgeRating * dodgePerRating

Whitetooth · 09/26/08, 5:45 PM

Now I have everything I need, its time to implement the DR formula into RatingBuster.

But things aren't that straight forward though, RatingBuster was built to work for all levels for all classes, not just level 80s. The problem is we don't have the Dodge/Agi (before DR) value for all levels, so the only way is to calculate it in game.

What RatingBuster can get from the WoW API is very limited, these are the values we know or can be calculated easily:
$D'$ =Total Dodge% after DR
$D_r$ =Dodge from Defense and Dodge Rating before DR
$D_b$ =Base dodge (This is what you have with 0 Agility, independent of level, can be looked up in my first post)
$A$ =Total Agility
$A_b$ =Base Agility (This is what you have with no gear on)
$A_g$ =Total Agility - Base Agility

Let $d$ be the Dodge/Agi (before DR) value we are going to calculate(this value is constant for a given level and class).

$\frac{1}{x'} = \frac{1}{C_d}+\frac{k}{x}}$

$x'=D'-D_b-A_b*d$
$x=A_g*d+D_r$

$\Rightarrow \frac{1}{D'-D_b-A_b*d}=\frac{1}{C_d}+\frac{k}{A_g*d+D_r}=\frac{A_g*d+D_r+C_d*k}{C_d*A_g*d+C_d*D_r}$

$\Rightarrow C_d*A_g*d+C_d*D_r=[(D'-D_b)-A_b*d]*[Ag*d+(D_r+C_d*k)]$

After rearranging the terms, we get an equation of type $a*d^2+b*d+c$ where
$a=-A_g*A_b$
$b=A_g(D'-D_b)-A_b(D_r+C_d*k)-C_dA_g$
$c=(D'-D_b)(D_r+C_d*k)-C_d*D_r$

$Dodge/Agi=\frac{-b-\sqrt{b^2-4ac}}{2a}$

Whitetooth · 09/26/08, 5:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mijae

Just to verify, does the Base Dodge listed in your first table include dodge from racial agility?

No, BaseDodge is the amount of dodge you have with 0 agility, this value is needed by RatingBuster to calculate the dodge/agi for you, no matter what level you are.

Originally Posted by Mijae

If so, are stat gains on base agility from modifiers like Blessing of Kings affected by DR.

I haven't tested this so I don't know.

Edit: I just tested Kings and its affected by DR.

Originally Posted by Mijae

So the pre-DR formula would be:
defense * 0.04 + (totalAgility - raceAgility) * dodgePerAgi + dodgeRating * dodgePerRating

This seems correct to me.

• frmorrison · 09/26/08, 5:50 PM

Interesting, that Dodge/Agi formula you have there the general formula to solve the quadratic equation, except the first part is - b then + or - the square root.

drumbum · 09/27/08, 5:47 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Interesting, that Dodge/Agi formula you have there the general formula to solve the quadratic equation, except the first part is - b then + or - the square root.

That's because he was solving a quadratic equation that he derived (because the diminishing returns that Blizzard implemented has been found to follow a 2nd order polynomial). And the 2nd solution is thrown out because it is extraneous (gives a negative value).

Whitetooth · 09/27/08, 9:43 AM

The DK values for parry didn't seem right, so I did more testing and found that my original assumption that parry rating from base str are not affect by DR is wrong, it turns out they do.
So when I got this right and redid the calculations, k and c values for parry turned out to be exactly the same was warriors and paladins.
First post updated again.

• landsoul · 09/28/08, 12:47 AM

so what is little "d" stand for?

koaschten · 09/28/08, 6:06 AM

Originally Posted by landsoul

so what is little "d" stand for?

Let $d$ be the Dodge/Agi value we are going to calculate.

Should read a bit more thoroughly.

• landsoul · 09/28/08, 4:19 PM

Sorry I missed it, so basically dodge%(from agility) = agility * f(x)

where f(x) = [-b-sqrt(b^2-4ac)]/2a and is a representation of how much other dodge you have.

f(x) gets smaller at some rate f'(x) ???

This concept can also be applied to other stats such as dodge rating, which has a different formula probably? I would hope that dodge talents and base dodge aren't affected by the recalculation? Do they increase the cap that diminished dodge approaches? How hard would it be to find total dodge% given from a for example 30 agility at x, y, z dodge levels?

Basically what people would like to see are plug and chug conversion formulas. Something that people can use without having to be an upper level math major to understand. Write a program what inputs for what you want to calculate an increase of (30 agility to dodge, 20 parry rating to parry, etc), the player's class, and avoidance levels, and outputs the total gain for the prompted stat.

Whitetooth · 09/28/08, 5:02 PM

I've implemented the final results into StatLogicLib r82109, this is RatingBuster's core, where all major math calculations are done.

* baseDodge = StatLogic:GetBaseDodge([class]) added new values for wotlk

* dodgePerAgi = StatLogic:GetDodgePerAgi() now implements the formula derived in post #277 for wotlk

* modDodgeBeforeDR, drFreeDodge = StatLogic:GetDodgeChanceBeforeDR()
Calculates your current Dodge%(modDodgeBeforeDR + drFreeDodge) before diminishing returns.

* modParryBeforeDR, drFreeParry = StatLogic:GetParryChanceBeforeDR()
Calculates your current Parry%(modParryBeforeDR + drFreeParry) before diminishing returns.

* avoidanceAfterDR = StatLogic:GetAvoidanceAfterDR(avoidanceType, avoidanceBeforeDR[, class])
Calculates the avoidance you get after diminishing returns.

* gainAfterDR = StatLogic:GetAvoidanceGainAfterDR(gainBeforeDR)
Calculates the avoidance gain after diminishing returns for gainBeforeDR with player's current stats.

As for RatingBuster itself, r82110 has DR support for Dodge% and Parry% differance values in StatSummary, and an option to turn DR calculations off, only works in wow 3.0.1 or above.

Whitetooth · 09/28/08, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by landsoul

Sorry I missed it, so basically dodge%(from agility) = agility * f(x)

where f(x) = [-b-sqrt(b^2-4ac)]/2a and is a representation of how much other dodge you have.

f(x) gets smaller at some rate f'(x) ???

Not really, Dodge/Agi (before DR) is constant for given level and class

Originally Posted by landsoul

This concept can also be applied to other stats such as dodge rating, which has a different formula probably? I would hope that dodge talents and base dodge aren't affected by the recalculation? Do they increase the cap that diminished dodge approaches? How hard would it be to find total dodge% given from a for example 30 agility at x, y, z dodge levels?

Basically what people would like to see are plug and chug conversion formulas. Something that people can use without having to be an upper level math major to understand. Write a program what inputs for what you want to calculate an increase of (30 agility to dodge, 20 parry rating to parry, etc), the player's class, and avoidance levels, and outputs the total gain for the prompted stat.

With RatingBuster r82110 installed you can type
/print StatLogic:GetAvoidanceGainAfterDR("DODGE", 30*StatLogic:GetDodgePerAgi())
/print StatLogic:GetAvoidanceGainAfterDR("PARRY", StatLogic:GetEffectFromRating(20, CR_PARRY))
to do just that.

• landsoul · 09/28/08, 10:25 PM

So you are saying that dodge/agi is always constant? What I am trying to ask, is that is agility to dodge not affected by diminishing returns? Could someone stack agility (if it were infinitely available) to reach an unhittable status?

I would assume that a new rating buster coming out would be user friendly and understandable for users to use?

• Astrylian · 09/28/08, 10:55 PM

3. Chance to be missed from Defense.

Do we know the value of C for misses?

Kaniption · 09/28/08, 11:31 PM

~15 armor Ignore at level 80 is 1 armor Penetration rating. Am I reading that table correctly? Do
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...lysabatons.jpg
really have ~ 1260 ignore armor?

Prinsesa · 09/29/08, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Kaniption

~15 armor Ignore at level 80 is 1 armor Penetration rating. Am I reading that table correctly? Do
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...lysabatons.jpg
really have ~ 1260 ignore armor?

You're only half right.

Armor Penetration Rating now ignores a percentage of armor. 84 ArPen Rating is equivalent to 5.45% Armor Penetration at level 80.

To ignore 1260 armor from 5.45%, your target would have to have 23,092 base armor

Whitetooth · 09/29/08, 2:30 AM

Originally Posted by landsoul

So you are saying that dodge/agi is always constant? What I am trying to ask, is that is agility to dodge not affected by diminishing returns? Could someone stack agility (if it were infinitely available) to reach an unhittable status?

dodge/agi before DR is constant.

Originally Posted by landsoul

I would assume that a new rating buster coming out would be user friendly and understandable for users to use?

Normal users won't even notice a thing when the switch to wotlk comes out despite all the changes made underneath, it would just work, like always.

WotLK code is already in the newest version of RatingBuster with version checking on wowace.

If you have updated recently, RatingBuster will automatically use the WotLK formulas and talents the moment you log in wow 3.0.1.

Kaniption · 09/29/08, 9:08 AM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

You're only half right.

Armor Penetration Rating now ignores a percentage of armor. 84 ArPen Rating is equivalent to 5.45% Armor Penetration at level 80.

To ignore 1260 armor from 5.45%, your target would have to have 23,092 base armor

I understand now. ~ 15 rating is = to 1% ignore. Thanks for clearing that up.

windcape · 09/29/08, 9:57 AM

So are we ever getting a source on those 9% spellhit?

• Adoriele · 09/29/08, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by windcape

So are we ever getting a source on those 9% spellhit?

9% seems to have been a transition phase. It's back to 17% against a level 83, but you can finally remove the final 1%.

dr_AllCOM3 · 09/29/08, 8:30 PM

Originally Posted by Whitetooth

I've implemented the final results into StatLogicLib r82109, this is RatingBuster's core, where all major math calculations are done.

Is StatLogicLib only Ace2?

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

You're only half right.

Armor Penetration Rating now ignores a percentage of armor. 84 ArPen Rating is equivalent to 5.45% Armor Penetration at level 80.

To ignore 1260 armor from 5.45%, your target would have to have 23,092 base armor

Is the ignore armor value applied before or after debuffs?
While I'm at it, what is the common armor value for bosses now and do glancings work the same like in BC?

Prinsesa · 09/29/08, 9:14 PM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

Is StatLogicLib only Ace2?

Is the ignore armor value applied before or after debuffs?
While I'm at it, what is the common armor value for bosses now and do glancings work the same like in BC?

Armor Penetration Rating is applied AFTER debuffs, which still reduces armor by a set amount.

Consider a boss with 7,600 armor and a level 70 player with 700 Armor Penetration in 2.3

After level 67 Sunder Armor (5 stacks of -520 armor each, for a total of -2600), the boss now has 5000 armor.

With 700 Armor Penetration, the boss would now only have 4300 armor.

Once 3.0 hits, 700 ArPen will be converted into 100 ArPen Rating.

100 ArPen Rating is worth 13.5% armor penetration at level 70, so from 5000 armor, the boss would now only have 4324 armor.