Copernicus

It's also listing some numbers-

Fireball and Frost are +5% damage. Water Elemental is -30 seconds. Improved Scorch is FIVE stacks per a cast.

 

Masaru

From the official beta forums, here is a list with numbers:

* Glyph of Fireball: Increases the initial damage dealt by Fireball by 5%, but removes the damage over time effect.
* Glyph of Fireblast: Increases the critical strike chance of Fireblast by 50% when the target is stunned or incapacitated.
* Glyph of Frost Nova: Your Frost Nova targets can take an additional 20% damage before the Frost Nova effect automatically breaks.
* Glyph of Frostbolt: Increases the damage dealt by Frostbolt by 5%, but removes the slowing effect.
* Glyph of Ice Armor: Your Ice Armor and Frost Armor spells grant an additional 20% armor and resistance.
* Glyph of Ice Block: Your Frost Nova cooldown is now reset every time you use Ice Block.
* Glyph of Ice Lance: Increases the range of your Ice Lance by 5 yards.
* Glyph of Icy Veins: Your Icy Veins ability also removes all movement slowing and cast time slowing effects.
* Glyph of Improved Scorch: The Improved Scorch talent now generates 5 applications of the Improved Scorch effect each time Scorch is cast.
* Glyph of Invisibility: Increases the duration of the Invisibility effect by 5 sec.
* Glyph of Mage Armor: Your Mage Armor spell grants an additional 20% mana regeneration while casting.
* Glyph of Mana Gem: Increases the mana recieved from using a mana gem by 10%.
* Glyph of Molten Armor: Your Molten Armor spell grants an additional 2% critical strike chance.
* Glyph of Polymorph: Your Polymorph spell also removes all damage over time effects from the target.
* Glyph of Remove Curse: Your Remove Curse spell also makes the target immune to all Curses for 6 sec.
* Glyph of Water Elemental: Reduces the cooldown of your Summon Water Elemental spell by 30 sec.
* Glyph of Blink: Increases the distance you travel with the Blink spell by 5 yards.
* Glyph of Evocation: Your Evocation ability also causes you to regain 15% of your health over its duration.
* Glyph of Arcane Explosion: Reduces mana cost of Arcane Explosion by 10%.
* Glyph of Arcane Missiles: Increases the range of Arcane Missiles by 5 yards.
* Glyph of Arcane Power: Increases the duration of Arcane Power by 3 sec.

 

radikal

An extra nova after Ice Block is just not very appealing as very frequently this is basically just at best ~10 seconds off the cooldown. The scorch thing could be amazing in pvp if it actually is 5 stacks no doubt. Evo is interesting. Ice Lance I can see the use no doubt (mostly gaying charge), but it's a little weird, too specific. I say no doubt a lot, don't you give me another stupid warning, it's cuz I'm a thug.

I wrote up this long whine about fire pvp and where the problems lie to post on the beta forums but I'll hold off until later in Beta. I figure I've earned some cred to discuss the topic as how many mages have played to 2300 in 2s and 2400+ in 3s and 5s multiple seasons as various horrible fire specs.

On the Fireball/Frostbolt glyphs -- Losing frostbite and the chill is pretty rough even exclusively on the PvE side of things. The real question is perhaps -- will fbolt still stack WC? Because if not, THAT is a steep price to pay. Especially, when all you lose with fireball is 1 30 dmg dot tick.

Glyph of Frost Nova - at 20%, worthless, trash.
Glyph of Fireblast - Solid
Glyph of Ice Armor - trashity trash
Glyph of Mana Gem - 10%?
Glyph of Remove Curse - 6 seconds is borderline. 8 would be solid. This is really only relevant to lock who CoT spam; it's nice to have in the game just for the butterfly effect where locks might stop spamming CoT because the occasional mage takes this glyph. (So please at least one decent mage per BG take it)

Most of the other glyphs are generally obviously bad or situational. Not to be overly negative, but I think these glyphs are pretty fail. The scorch glyph is hugely exploitable in pvp in conjunction with arcane sub and poly. I'm at a loss on that one. (2/18/51 emerges nicely as a trendy arena spec)

radikalnoise.com :: Dicks, Strats, Drama, eFame, and More Dicks

 

Jarlyn

The Fireball/Frostbolt ones are sort of weak, I was hoping for something like 10-20%. Better than nothing, for sure, but hardly class-changing like some of the other glyphs.

The Scorch one is nice, though.

 

JonIrenicus

The negative you must suffer with from the frostbolt glyph is FAR greater than that for fireball. I suppose the point is to get more mages to use frostfire bolt in pvp and farming as it will still gain several frost buffs, but still, this is not a trade I would be happy with as a frost mage. I like my main nuke having a slowing component.

Though I suppose you could just open with a frostfire bolt and then wail on people with frostbolt so its not game breaking, but still...


I agree with the poster below me, arcane needs a glyph increasing the arcane blast debuff by 50%, that would truly be a game altering glyph in what it would allow you to work in.

 

Pasture

Eh.

Generally unhappy with the glyphs, particularly as an arcane mage. There are pretty much no modifications to any of our main nukes. Nothing for arcane blast and nothing for arcane barrage. Arcane missles gets additional range. Eh. Don't need it.

Extra 20% regen on mage armour is obviously nice. 80% regen while casting will be awesome.

The mana gem increase of 10% is meaningless. What's that? 500 mana every two minutes. Waste of a glyph.

Arcane power duration increase is nice but I'd prefer 5 seconds to 3.

And none of the other glyphs are of much relevance for arcane. Rubbish, to be blunt.

 

Lhivera

Yeah, but you lose the chance at frostbite procs and shatter crits then. Do we really need them when out farming? No, but it sure makes things a lot more fun.

Water Elemental glyph reduces fully-talented cooldown to 1 minute, 54 secconds. I estimate uptime at:

3-minute fight: 50% untalented, 66.67% talented, 70% talented with glyph
6-minute fight: 37.5% untalented, 53.33% talented, 66.67% talented with glyph
10-minute fight: 32.5% untalented, 58% talented, 64% talented with glyph

Minimum uptime: 25% untalented, 41.67% talented, 52.63% talented with glyph

Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror. -Ming the Merciless

 

Shadout

The Curse glyph seems like something which could be 'needed' for future gimmick raid bosses.

A shame the invis glyph doesnt last longer. It would add something to the spell and not matter that much in most cases. Not like you would want to stay invisible forever in the middle of an arena match :S

The frostbolt glyph is silly, you cant just remove the main aspect of the spell like that. At least they would have to make it so you had both versions available.

The scorch one seems ok, especially in a raid environment where you might never have more than one scorch bitch (beside the pvp and solo usage, it pretty much does what have been asked for a long time: make it easier to apply our dmg debuff. I just hope it doesnt take up a major glyph slot, as it should really be nearly free upgrade of scorch imo (hell, it should probably have been: Scorch debuff can be kept up by any fire spell (but not applied by)...).

 

Cwealm

IF the spell lockout on frostfire is both the fire and frost school, which I read somewhere, that is kind of a rsiky spell. Getting locked out of frost when you are frost is one thing, you can switch to scorch. But both schools will be rough.

 

Xentropy

One thing not mentioned yet is this functionally allows you to use 1/3 improved scorch instead of 3/3, freeing TWO talent points. The chances of five attempts to proc failing even at 33% per chance is only 13.5%. The exact chances per cast of adding each amount of the debuff would be as follows:

1/3 Imp Scorch + Glyph of Scorch - Debuffs per cast:
Add 0 - 13.50%
Add 1 - 33.25%
Add 2 - 32.75%
Add 3 - 16.13%
Add 4 - 3.97%
Add 5 - 0.39%
Average per cast - 1.6497

By removing two talent points and adding this glyph, you wouldn't stack much faster than 3/3 without glyph at the start of the fight, but you would lose minimal ability to keep the stack up mid-fight.

The question would become whether there is a better place to put those two points. For the current "only bring one mage for utility" spec of 0/18/53 it'd allow for a possible 0/16/55 instead, but I'd have to play with specs to see if it'd make up for having to scorch twice from time to time.

Edit: With 2/3 imp scorch you'd only have a 0.39% chance of not refreshing the debuff on a single cast. So freeing up one talent point is nearly risk-free.

2/3 Imp Scorch + Glyph of Scorch - Debuffs per cast:
Add 0 - 0.39%
Add 1 - 3.97%
Add 2 - 16.13%
Add 3 - 32.75%
Add 4 - 33.25%
Add 5 - 13.50%
Average per cast - 3.3498

@Nuruu: I'd take 2 talent points that increase rdps on bosses over 2 talent points that increase rdps on trash.

 

• Nurru

Or, instead, you could continue speccing 3/3 and actually be able to have scorch stacked on every trash mob with an insignificant time investment and decent rdps increase.

19:31 <@Zyla> I fuck like a gorilla
19:31 <@Zyla> wait
19:31 <@Zyla> wrong chat room

 

Lgs

Yes, this will basically be a required glyph for at least one mage in every raid, so long as stacking remains as it does.

Spirit is a seriously good stat now.

 

Lhivera

I think as things stand, the glyphs of choice for a Frost Mage would be +2% crit on Molten Armor and -30 sec cooldown on Water Elemental. The penalty on the Frostbolt glyph is just too extreme. That's assuming the Molten Armor glyph really is major rather than lesser or minor.

If it turned out that Molten Armor's glyph didn't take a Major slot, I could actually see a Frost Mage taking the Fireball glyph as his second Major, for use on Brain Freeze procs...

Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror. -Ming the Merciless

 

Xentropy

Lhivera: Currently you get three major glyph slots (not two) and three minor glyph slots.

If it were up to me I wouldn't use the frostbolt glyph as currently implemented, but I could definitely see guild recruiters/leaders requiring anyone frost spec to be using it. 5% damage is 5% damage, a min/maxer doesn't care what it does to soloing or PvP.

 

Lhivera

Ah, so they have eliminated the Lesser category? That's probably sensible, it was going to be a pretty confusing distinction.

Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror. -Ming the Merciless

 

PsyBomb

Unless my math is off, the Fireball glyph is a net decrease of total damage of a Fireball that would have managed to tick out. Brain Freeze shots will normally tick for long enough to make it a bad idea to equip the glyph.

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

 

Lhivera

With 2000 damage and 30% crit (fairly reasonable with Winter's Chill on the target):
Base Damage: 1010
Gear Damage: 2000
Crit Multiplier: 1 + 0.3 * 0.5 = 1.15

Without Glyph
(1010 + 2000) * 1.15 + 116 = 3577.5

With Glyph
(1010 + 2000) * 1.15 * 1.05 = 3634.575

So, it's a win, but not by much; you're right, not really worth a glyph slot. (Although it does have the advantage of preventing your Fireball-tossing Frost-specced mage from using up a debuff slot for his Fireball DOT.)

Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror. -Ming the Merciless

 

• Nurru

Take a look at the Fire tree again, you're mistaken. There are no talent points that you can take to improve your single target dps with Fireball, Frostbolt or Frostfire bolt within the first four tiers of of Fire that you can't already get with 3/3 Improved Scorch. Basically, gaining 2 points by not going 3/3 Improved Scorch is not going to gain anything beyond another point in Master of Elements for boss dps. This applies to whether you're going deep into fire for a Fireball spec, a Frostfire spec, or a hybrid trying to do both.

19:31 <@Zyla> I fuck like a gorilla
19:31 <@Zyla> wait
19:31 <@Zyla> wrong chat room

 

Xentropy

My concern is mostly with the 1-mage utility spec (for 10-mans, or 25-mans if mages are again only worth bringing one of), where you only go deep enough into fire for imp scorch and the rest goes into frost. 54 or 55 instead of 53 in frost can actually make a very large difference.

 

Zeldyrr

Wow, I really hope they are open to modifying glyphs. The fireball and frostbolt glyphs are not usable or well-designed. The fireball glyph is pointless, taking away almost as much damage as it gives. The frostbolt one...where to begin:

-- prevents using a frost mage in fights like Vashj
-- makes grinding/farming much harder...you rely on the snare to kill the mob before it reaches you
-- removing snare from frostbolt is like removing stealth from rogues--seems to ruin the flavor

The frostbolt one is enough of a penalty that I would have to replace it every raid/non-raid situation. Unless glyphs are super cheap, that might not be feasible. And if I skip it, no doubt frost raiding will be "balanced" around having it. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Not good.

 

Finkum

The first crop of Priest glyphs were similarly facepalm-worthy, but the devs did a second pass and cleaned up the worst offenders (some are still a bit useless, but c'est la vie). There is a very good chance that the mage glyphs will be tweaked.

 

Prinsesa

Assuming you use Fireball, when would you NOT want to use its Glyph?

At 0 spell power, the level 70 Fireball does 815 average damage, with its DOT ticking for 23 damage every 2 seconds for 8 seconds, or 92 damage total.

Assuming the Glyph numbers are correct and FB damage is increased by 5%, you'd lose 92 damage from the DOT, but gain 40 damage from the Glyph. The break-even would be at 1050 spell power: 1865 average damage per Fireball, and 5% of that is 93 damage.

Ok, perhaps I answered my own question, but 1050 doesn't seem all that hard to reach, and assuming you actually get there, why would you ever drop the Glyph?

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63815BffMm.png