[Priest, Paladin, Shaman] Haste! Healing Throughput Spreadsheet

Ward · 08/29/08, 3:50 PM

I got tired of arguments about whether haste or healing was better for throughput. I put together an initial spreadsheet for priests and I'll probably have a build out for shaman and paladins late next week or the early the following week depending on how productive I am. I'm also going to make a mod to auto-record healing decomposition matrices for fights with the ability to aggregate over fights selected by the user.

Since there are so many ways to regen mana currently and it's not much of an issue most of the time I did not look at HPM changes in healing and haste, but rather just straight HPS. Essentially the spreadsheet looks at the discrete derivative of HPS with respect to haste and healing and then uses the chain rule to find the derivative of haste with respect to healing. This allows for appropriate gemming to maximize throughput.

Priest SS: Priest Haste! 0.3 Beta

Paladin SS: Coming Wednesday

Shaman SS: Coming Friday

WotLK Priest SS: Coming Soon

WotLK Paladain SS: Coming Soon

WotLK Shaman SS: Coming Soon

I'd like to keep this thread constructive and in response to the spreadsheet. Thanks in advance!

Note: The HDM is important for use, if it is filled out incorrectly it will drastically alter your haste v. healing values.

Please feel free to add suggestions on how to improve the spreadsheet. I am very open to adding features and I hope to do so rather soon, but I'd like to get the Paladin and Shaman spreadsheets out first.

ilkori · 08/29/08, 7:18 PM

Your Priest 0.2 Beta sheet is missing coefficient modifiers for down-ranked spells. Just a little more formatting on the input page could clear things up and how to weight the HDM. (Or more appropriately, simply have the spreadsheet normalize the input automatically so someone could input # casts per fight/run/etc.)

One easy way to do this would be to have an additional sheet that breaks down the weighted HPS/HPM and then use a sumproduct() formula with the two columns/rows that are in the additional sheet. At this stage the casting values could be normalized for the weighting formula.

Ward · 08/29/08, 9:29 PM

Originally Posted by ilkori

Your Priest 0.2 Beta sheet is missing coefficient modifiers for down-ranked spells. Just a little more formatting on the input page could clear things up and how to weight the HDM. (Or more appropriately, simply have the spreadsheet normalize the input automatically so someone could input # casts per fight/run/etc.) At this stage the casting values could be normalized for the weighting formula.

Right you are, I'll get right on it.

I can definitely include this. I thought about doing it already, but didn't know if there would be a demand for it. I made this in like 4 hours or so and figured I'd get it live so people could help me debug. I'm intending this to eventually be tied with a mod that will record the data for you and parse it into trash and boss fights that you can include or not in the aggregate weighting, another reason I didn't include it on this early build.

I'll likely include a separate row in the individual spell sheets just so it stays tidy and all coefficients are applied in a neat and orderly way.

Propel · 08/29/08, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by ilkori

Your Priest 0.2 Beta sheet is missing coefficient modifiers for down-ranked spells.

With the upcoming downrank penalty, I'm not sure if this is worth including.

Ward · 08/30/08, 8:22 PM

Updated. Still might be an error for max rank - 1 spells but that will hopefully be modified shortly.

ilkori · 08/31/08, 12:08 AM

Thanks. I do appreciate the down rank work for what is left of BC.

Ward · 09/01/08, 4:14 PM

Good deal.

My goal is to have the first iteration of the shaman spreadsheet out by Wednesday evening and the paladin spreadsheet out by Friday evening. After that I'm going to start working on WotLK spreadsheets that do the same thing as the current ones (I won't include downranking however). I'm afraid I won't have the mod ready before 3.0 so I'm scrapping it and starting work on the 3.0 compatible mod after I finish the spreadsheets. The logic for the mod is pretty easy, but I'm still fairly new to Lua and the built in functions provided by Blizzard.

Let me know what other metrics you'd like to see me add to the spreadsheet!

Shinwei · 09/03/08, 12:55 PM

Hey Ward,

I'm not at home right now and haven't had a chance to check out your spreadsheet yet. However I'd like to ask if there's any way your spreadsheet could take on a different outlook and calculations based on whether you are tank-healing vs raid-healing? I've always maintained that the two activities are vastly different from one another, and my personal outlook on the subject are as follows:

Tank-Healing

You're always spamming some select mana-efficient rank of one of your heals.
You only have one target to worry about.
Both +healing and +haste increase HPS, but only +heal increases HPM via downranking.
You continue to cast regardless of how much current HP the tank has.
Whether or not haste is helpful when tank-healing depends on the speed/frequency of incoming damage from the boss.

Raid-Healing

You do not consistently spam one person, rather your job is to heal each person in the raid just enough so that they don't die from the next source of incoming damage.
People in the raid generally have around 10-11k hit points.
Sources of raid damage are often inconsistent and random.
Healing is mostly reactive, rarely pro-active.
+Heal stats help up to a point, which is (in general) the point where each heal you land is enough to make each person survive their incoming next source of damage.
+Haste is the only stat that allows you to heal more people in a shorter amount of time.

Sheshonk · 09/03/08, 3:11 PM

I did something similar awhile back, but instead of going with a set amount of +Heal, I wanted to know what point of +heal I needed for haste to generate more heal throughput.

Our coefficients are slightly different. I'm also ignoring spell crit and downranking...

Things to note is that the HPS gains of spell haste are linear. The more +heal you have determines the amount of gain you get from spell haste, so the more +heal you have, the better spell haste is. For those of you just interested in the results...

* = Assuming to hit 3 targets

A negative number means spell haste is better with 0 +Heal!

I'm sure your wondering how I arrived at these numbers. To have 1% Spell Haste requires 15.76 rating. The equivalent amount of +Heal is 15.76*2.2 = 34.67.

Upon taking into account the HPS formula, +Heal coefficient, and spell haste you get this handy dandy formula, which I will plug in for triple stack lifebloom...

HPS of +Heal = (+Heal * Heal Coefficient) / Cast Time
HPS of +Heal = (34.67 * 2.025) / 1.5
HPS of +Heal = 46.8

+Heal Needed = ( (HPS of +Heal * Cast Time) - (.01 * Base Heal) ) / (.01 * coefficient)
+Heal Needed = ( (46.8 * 1.5) - (.01 * 900.9) ) / (.01 * 2.025)
+Heal Needed = 3,022.11

Here is the spreadsheet I used to work out these values. Our numbers seem to agree for the most part, remember that I am weighing in iLvl, so every point of spell haste is worth 2.2 points of healing.

Ward · 09/04/08, 12:52 AM

Sorry for no update. I'm probably gonna push back the releases a week or so. I got contacted today about a job offer that has a week long design test for me. I'll probably be working on that. Combine that with a guild push to down M'uru this week probably has me MIA on these spreadsheets for a little while.

@Eniwei: It looks at straight HPS and basically takes the derivative of hps wrt haste and healing and then uses those to find the derivative of haste wrt healing. It's not a perfect measure, but it's really designed for people that aren't too worried about mana anymore and can just maximize their HPS. If you want to collaborate and add something for shaman (or priests and palis too) I'd be more than happy to include it. You know where to find me. Whisper me in-game if you want vent info. I definitely don't think that this spreadsheet format is "done" in any real sense. I'd like to incorporate a customizable metric that will allow people to maximize their stats based on their own metric.

@Sheshonk: Sure. Those are definitely interesting numbers. My spreadsheet, in the long run, is meant to take prior performances healing and use the person's healing style to help them maximize throughput. I do have some interest in perhaps extending this to all stats come WotLK. We'll see.