Raid Buff Versatility Among Classes - Page 2

Blutelf · 09/25/08, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Glyphed Wisdom adds health per second equal to mana per second (unique).

That glyph has been replaced with the Spiritual Attunement glyph. There is only the "+20 min for single BoW" glyph left now.

Thegoodman · 09/25/08, 11:11 AM

Focus Magic no longer works as some of the above posts mentioned. It is a single target buff that can only be applied to 1 raid member for an additional 3% chance to spell crit and at this time stacks with all other raid buffs. This may or may not fall into the threads criteria but should be moved or removed.

Kyth · 09/27/08, 7:36 PM

I made a mod to answer this question in-game. The wowinterface page has more information on how to use it, etc.

InTheBuff : WoWInterface Downloads : WotLK Beta

There's some stuff still missing there (a handful of paladin blessings, the new ranged AP buff changes, improved water elemental) but I'm adding those shortly. I'm also adding support for hunter pets soon (since some can cover for a missing class.)

You can mouse over each of the buffs/debuffs and see who is providing them (if anyone) and what classes/specs can also provide it. It'll tell you the classes of the people who couldn't be scanned because they were OOR (since it has to inspect talents, you need everyone within 30'.)

It can just scan the first 10/25/40, or scan by groups (in case you're building multiple 10-man raids in the same raid window.)

I'm trying to keep abreast of the patch changes as they add new buffs/debuffs but drop me a line if you see something missing or incorrect (or if you want more features.)

Example screenshot from an AV game on live:

Screenshot from my testing that shows what the mouseover on a buff looks like:

Iluminati · 09/29/08, 7:40 AM

Vampiric Embrace is a rather unique ability, doing 15(25 w/ talents)% of the shadow priest's dps as healing to the party only. I'm not sure if you wanted to mention that as it is:

a) party only
b) not dps or mitigation related

But it is a very useful ability on healing sensitive encounters.

very helpful list so far though.

Horky · 10/08/08, 8:06 PM

Originally Posted by Moriantum

Not long ago I was very happy to see mmo-champion.com post a consolidated list of all the buffs in WotLK.

Mmo-champion.com just added a raid buff tool. MMO-Champion RaidComp

ranma · 10/09/08, 9:48 PM

Totem of Wrath is likely the most powerful +spell power buff, surpass competitors (imp. divine spirit, and maybe demonic pact when the raid average spell power is not high enough) by large margin.

Isin · 10/16/08, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Iluminati

Vampiric Embrace is a rather unique ability, doing 15(25 w/ talents)% of the shadow priest's dps as healing to the party only. I'm not sure if you wanted to mention that as it is:

a) party only
b) not dps or mitigation related

But it is a very useful ability on healing sensitive encounters.

very helpful list so far though.

Is there a list of all of the abilities that are going to remain party-only? As these are the exception now rather than the rule, and the only factor to consider now in forming parties in raids now, it would be useful to get a list of all these in one place to consult when forming raids. Yesterday when we were forming a raid, we took the following into account as effects that are only party wide.

Vampiric Embrace
Prayer of Healing
Spellsurge
Holy Nova

The following have tooltips that say they are only party-wide, but we have yet to confirm either way:
Drums of Battle, Restoration, War*
Grounding Totem*
Tremor Totem*
Mana Spring Totem*

These were also identified as party-wide only, but it seems unlikely that they will be a factor in raid composition
Hymn of Hope
Paladin Holy T5 2-piece set bonus*
Battlemaster
Several new Hunter Pet Talents, such as Call of the Wild*
Jewelcrafting limited use items, such as Pendant of the Null Rune*

The following were identified to have misleading tooltips that sounded like they were party wide, but have been confirmed to be intended to be raidwide:
Ferocious Inspiration
Leader of the Pack
Tranquility

What other classes/specs provide party-only buffs still? Please let me know if these tooltips are incorrect, and the effects are actually raid wide for any of these.

Unconfirmed effect scopes are marked with a "*".

Derrek · 10/17/08, 10:09 AM

Moonkins get the opportunity to further talent into GotW deeper into the Balance Tree. This gives up to +3% hit rating. Their improved Moonkin aura add 2% haste as well.

Moginheden · 10/20/08, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by Derrek

Moonkins get the opportunity to further talent into GotW deeper into the Balance Tree. This gives up to +3% hit rating. Their improved Moonkin aura add 2% haste as well.

Moonkin's hit rating bonus comes from improved Faerie Fire, not GotW.

Also worth noting is the costs each class has to maintain these buffs. For example:
-a moonkin's Improved Faerie Fire costs the moonkin 1.5 seconds every 40 seconds out of their casting rotation to maintain, and iFF can't proc their mana-regen-on-crit so they lose a tiny bit of mana too.
-A feral wastes nothing maintaining Feral Faerie Fire since they are waiting on rage/energy anyway and it has no cost.
-A shadow priest wastes nothing maintaining Misery since it's a 100% uptime proc.

So for the same effect you can use 2 players each wasting nothing, or 1 wasting about 3-5% of their dps rotation depending on if they apply early or not. A similar effect is seen with a moonkin maintaining Earth and Moon vs an affliction lock maintaining Curse of Elements, the moonkin should cover it, the lock should not.

Grital · 11/10/08, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Isin

Is there a list of all of the abilities that are going to remain party-only? As these are the exception now rather than the rule, and the only factor to consider now in forming parties in raids now, it would be useful to get a list of all these in one place to consult when forming raids. Yesterday when we were forming a raid, we took the following into account as effects that are only party wide.

Vampiric Embrace
Prayer of Healing
Spellsurge
Holy Nova

The following have tooltips that say they are only party-wide, but we have yet to confirm either way:
Drums of Battle, Restoration, War*
Grounding Totem*
Tremor Totem*
Mana Spring Totem*

These were also identified as party-wide only, but it seems unlikely that they will be a factor in raid composition
Hymn of Hope
Paladin Holy T5 2-piece set bonus*
Battlemaster
Several new Hunter Pet Talents, such as Call of the Wild*
Jewelcrafting limited use items, such as Pendant of the Null Rune*

The following were identified to have misleading tooltips that sounded like they were party wide, but have been confirmed to be intended to be raidwide:
Ferocious Inspiration
Leader of the Pack
Tranquility

What other classes/specs provide party-only buffs still? Please let me know if these tooltips are incorrect, and the effects are actually raid wide for any of these.

Unconfirmed effect scopes are marked with a "*".

Mana Tide and Healing Stream Totem are group only still, and their tooltips correctly indicate this.

SageoftheTimes · 11/19/08, 11:24 PM

Warlock:
Affliction Locks put up Shadow Embrace, which gives +10% additional DoT damage on the target (unique buff).

Fairie Fire does what Curse of Recklessness does, without any negatives. Even a Hunter's Wasp can do it, with Sting. And yes, while it can be talented, it'd only be taken if climbing to Ruin for an Affliction Lock isn't worth it.

Finally, until testing is done on Boss AP, we don't know weither a Demo Shout talented with 2/5 Imp. Demoralizing Shout will be be enough to remove all of a boss's AP, or weither we'll need Curse of Weakness (who knows if the lost Curse of Agony will be worth the lost rage to a Warrior for putting up Demo Shout, if Demo is enough).

Rogue:
Hemo seems to be unique as a buff.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Derrek

Moonkins get the opportunity to further talent into GotW deeper into the Balance Tree. This gives up to +3% hit rating. Their improved Moonkin aura add 2% haste as well.

I think they removed the subtraction to the target's hit rate.

Ardath Fey · 11/20/08, 11:07 AM

Hi, I noticed that another buff missing is the Death Knight's Horn of Winter buff which may be replaced by the Shaman's Strength of Earth and Grace of Air totems. Obviously, since it costs the shammy two totems, it's probably better for the Death Knight to be on top of refreshing the Horn of Winter Buff every 2 min. With the minor Glyph, the Horn of Winter Buff may be reduced from 20 runic power to 10 runic power, making maintenance easier.

Moriantum · 11/20/08, 11:27 AM

With the development of new mods and mmo-champion tools mentioned above, I figured this thread was kind of obsolete. I most likely won't be updating it, moderators can feel free to remove it if they want.

LockApologist · 11/20/08, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Ardath Fey

Hi, I noticed that another buff missing is the Death Knight's Horn of Winter buff which may be replaced by the Shaman's Strength of Earth and Grace of Air totems. Obviously, since it costs the shammy two totems, it's probably better for the Death Knight to be on top of refreshing the Horn of Winter Buff every 2 min. With the minor Glyph, the Horn of Winter Buff may be reduced from 20 runic power to 10 runic power, making maintenance easier.

Strength of Earth now provides both Strength and Agility. DK provide HoW when no Shaman are around, or you really, really need Stoneskin totem instead.

PSGarak · 11/20/08, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by SageoftheTimes

Warlock:
Affliction Locks put up Shadow Embrace, which gives +10% additional DoT damage on the target (unique buff).

That is not a raid buff. Shadow Embrace only affects the casting warlock. There was a bug where still only one copy of SE could be on the target at a time, meaning only one warlock got the benefit. I've heard mixed reports about that bug being fixed. But it doesn't have any impact to raid debuffs since it's a personal debuff anways.
Technically it also gives a 30% MS effect to HoTs only, which could be considered a raid debuff. I do not know it that stacks with MS or not.

unknownk · 12/07/08, 10:41 AM

I just had a question concerning the curse of elements v earth and moon and ebon plaguebringer.
I raid with an unholy DK and soon a boomkin and I am still asked to use my curse of elements. This lowers and my dps by quite a bit. I was wondering what would be the bigger raid dps increase. Allowing me to use CoA and letting the unholy DK to use ebon plaguebringer or me using CoE(which is not improved)?

Starfox · 12/07/08, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by unknownk

I just had a question concerning the curse of elements v earth and moon and ebon plaguebringer.
I raid with an unholy DK and soon a boomkin and I am still asked to use my curse of elements. This lowers and my dps by quite a bit. I was wondering what would be the bigger raid dps increase. Allowing me to use CoA and letting the unholy DK to use ebon plaguebringer or me using CoE(which is not improved)?

EP from an unholy DK will always be up, no matter if put CoE up (specced or not), as long as he can put up his diseases

unknownk · 12/07/08, 1:27 PM

EP from an unholy DK will always be up, no matter if put CoE up (specced or not), as long as he can put up his diseases

I was also not 100% if CoE stack with earth and moon or EP.
Would my CoE be canceled out by EP or will it provide 165 decreased resistence?

PSGarak · 12/07/08, 5:04 PM

E&M, EP, and CoE's magic damage increase are the same buff. Their effects do not stack. That's the entire point of the debuff overhaul. EP's DoT and disease increase effect, and CoE's spell penetration, are separate effects. However, spell penetration is useless because your targets have 0 resists so while that effect technically still occurs, it's still accurate to say it does not provide 165 decreased resistance. Use CoA. Slap the next person that tells you otherwise.

SpottedCowz · 12/28/08, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ardath Fey

Hi, I noticed that another buff missing is the Death Knight's Horn of Winter buff which may be replaced by the Shaman's Strength of Earth and Grace of Air totems. Obviously, since it costs the shammy two totems, it's probably better for the Death Knight to be on top of refreshing the Horn of Winter Buff every 2 min. With the minor Glyph, the Horn of Winter Buff may be reduced from 20 runic power to 10 runic power, making maintenance easier.

As mentioned SoE provides both since Echoes, but more importantly, SoE has a 3 point talent on the first tier of enhancement that buffs it beyond what HoW provides. This means that if you have an enhancement shaman, he should generally have imp SoE (there is some discussion on the shammy forums about range/totem uptime) down since it is a superior buff to Horn. Notable exceptions would be fights with a wide spread like Grobbulus, Malygos P2, and multi-drake Sartharion. I think it's best to let your DKs and Enh shammy work out who's covering what and when.

Edit: My point, in case I didn't spell it out plainly enough, is that imp SoE will always overwrite HoW, being a better buff, so for a DK to buff HoW on a fight where imp SoE is coming down is a waste of time; it will fall off as soon as SoE is dropped and cannot be applied again while the recipient is in range of SoE.

Binkenstein · 12/30/08, 2:31 AM

Note: HotC affects ALL attacks, while ToW only affects spells

This is incorrect, ToW affects everything, as well as being an AoE debuff. It should also be noted that ToW gives more spellpower than other buff options, unless you have a demonology warlock with over 2800 spellpower.