But 25 expertise only covers you for 6.25% of that dodge chance. So there's a little over .25% still to be removed, making that last point in expertise much more important. And if the parry chance is double the dodge, then the amount of expertise to remove parry would be 52, but as it's such a high number that no one will get to it, I'm less worried about the specifics for it.

6.25% expertise is the cap to never get dodged on a boss, so 205 rating is correct. Vuljin has a Rogue post where he tested that. Likely the dodge level on a boss is around 6.1%, however expertise only works in .25% steps.


I have been told the parry cap is 13.75%, I don't know if it is true. It would be 415 expertise rating if true, but whatever the value is you are right in that you don't want to actively cap expertise to that value, since other stats are more important.

I'm not seeing anywhere that a 6.25% reduction was sufficient. I did a forum search for everything Vulajin has posted involving the words dodge and expertise and nothing came up. Also, in both the Rogue TTT and the simple question/answers, the cap is listed at 6.5%, which has been the established number for all of BC raiding that I know of. Could you post a link to the post where Vul shows otherwise?

The Protection warrior guide and the old Working Theories Thread seem to put the dodge cap for expertise at 23 throughout BC. I see no data to claim otherwise for WOTLK.

Hm... They seem to be working with a 5.6% dodge chance which would make it equivalent to a bosses crit chance and makes sense in that way. But it looks like both shaman and rogues have been assuming a 6.5% and the Arms warrior TTT has it at 6.25%.

I think it's worth noting that every point of expertise you get from racials/talents will reduce the amount of rating you need by 9 (or 8.197 rounded up).

Also, wasn't resilience changed to provide 2.2% crit damage reduction per point? I distinctly remember reading this in the 3.0.0 patch notes.

EDIT: As well, the cap for the crit damage reduction was increased to 33% (up from 25%). Crit chance reduction remains uncapped (although is obviously worth much less once the damage reduction is capped).

Capping the crit damage reduction to 33% would require 1230 resilience rating (or 1229.625 rounded up). This would also provide 15% crit chance reduction.

Does anyone have a measurement of boss AP yet? Warrior and druid tanking threads are full of questions about how many points to put in improved AP debuffing, but I haven't seen any test results.

So far, I have not seen a consistent boss AP figure tossed around, but I have not been specifically looking for that yet. If anyone runs across any, it would indeed be much appreciated. Because quite frankly, that's an interesting topic.

As for ArPen, that's a whole different discussion, because it's extremely class specific. Certain classes like ret paladins and death knight value it very little, because of part of their abilities not being affected by it. Of course, other classes value it in different degrees, depending on their available arsenal. Although I will do a brief paragraph about it when I get around to it and I plan to expand more on that when I get my hands on any potential changes to boss armor become available, because I think a detailed discussion is worthless without this little piece of information.

EDIT: I know there is a bit of math on this from this post onwards, but it's not exactly brief and to the point, as I'd like to keep the info in here.

I've been out of hte loop for a while, but in reading this, unlike any other stat we have, expertise doesnt scale with level? AKA, at 70, 23-25 expertise was more than enough, and yet again, its more than enough. EXCEPT, they decided to almost double the expertise on items?

I'm trying to get back into raiding, but in just the sunwell gear I had, plus the blues from rep/heorics, I'm at 34 expertise. That means I'm at least 9 (More with talents) over cap, with only more expertise to come on some of the gear. Are we wasting so much of this item budget?

Expertise and Expertise Rating are different things. The amount of Expertise remains static in the same way that the amount of Hit (as a percent) you need remains static, since the ratings will scale. Talents will still give a constant amount of expertise, as they're supposed to, but the amount you need from gear to cover the gap will scale with item budget.

If you are over cap, and seeing peices to come with an excess of expertise, wouldnt the prudent action be to 'devalue' the stat and continue stacking whatever your most weighted stat is? This doesnt seem like so much of a problem to me as a benefit.