[FAQ]Working theories of raiding at level 80 - Page 4

Enova · 12/10/08, 10:59 PM

Much to my shame, I thought I had already fixed it. No matter, it's done now; also added a 'General stuff' paragraph and glancing blows.

Espera · 12/11/08, 10:51 AM

You fixed the amount of needed hit for specials to 8 %, but in the part for dual-wielders it is still 9 % for specials. Little bit confusing to me, maybe it should be 8 % there too.

• Vulajin · 12/12/08, 12:01 AM

Glancing blows information is a little bit inaccurate. The rate of glancing against a boss mob is roughly 24%. The exact amount for which you glance varies, but the average reduction comes out to about 75%. Both of these quantities vary against lower-level mobs, the extent to which I haven't seen investigated, so I couldn't given any specific numbers.

Jone · 12/12/08, 2:13 AM

Looks like some good data on demo shout at last: WotLK Level 80 boss AP - TankSpot

Maexxna's total AP appears to be around 573, meaning a full 5 points should be invested in demo shout in order to remove all of it. I suppose it makes sense to game designers -- now that there are alternatives to the bonus AP of CoR, fully talented shouts would be worthless unless a typical boss had at least that much AP.

Based on those numbers it seems like a 5 point shout is reducing her melee damage by about 5% more than an untalented one. Do her special attacks gain more from AP, or will those be reduced by about 5% too?

Prinsesa · 12/12/08, 4:55 AM

I believe that mob special abilities use hard-coded ranges for damage and aren't affected by AP. This is evident in Patchwerk, where Hateful Strikes hit just as hard with or without Demo Shout.

dukes · 12/12/08, 7:36 AM

Hateful Strike is a "melee spell", not a melee ability as such. It uses a fixed damage range modified solely by armour. A number of other strikes such as Unbalancing Strike (Razuvious) however are based upon weapon damage or boss damage, so will (likely) be affected by AP.

edit: In regards to Maexxna, the AP won't be affecting the damaging abilities as they're spells that cause nature damage (poison shock / web spray).

PSGarak · 12/12/08, 2:35 PM

Well, it's techinically possible for a magic-damage ability to have AP scaling. Paladins and Death Knights already work that way. However, all things considered, it is unlikely for a boss ability to do so unless it is a magic-flavored melee ability of some sort. Spells generally scale separately from melee unless there is good reason, and boss spells probably also have a hard-coded damage range.

It might be useful to have a list of "hard-coded" vs "weapon-damage" boss melee abilities. This may take too much testing to be worthwhile.

Prinsesa · 12/13/08, 9:06 PM

There's also the related issue of disarming - Skadi's (Utgarde Pinnacle 3rd boss) Whirlwind tooltip indicates a hardcoded damage range of 4713 to 5287, while Commander Stoutbeard's (Nexus 1st/bonus boss) Whirlwind indicates 200% weapon damage.

True to form, disarming Skadi does absolutely nothing to reduce his WW damage, while most of the sting of Stoutbeard's WW can be taken out.

Latito · 12/13/08, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Enova

Glancing Blows

- Glancing Blows only occur on players’ and pets' white MELEE attacks, and only against mobs of higher level. The damage on a Glancing Blow is reduced by the difference between the attacker’s weapon skill (player level*5) and the target’s defense skill. Against a boss mob, Glancing Blows do 70% of normal damage. Damage loss scales with level at a rate of -10% per level difference.
- Glancing Blow rate against boss mobs is estimated to be around 25%.

While I fail to bring a reference (the thread was deleted in the class mechanic cleanup).. Glancing blows occur at a 24% rate against boss level mobs. Also, while they didn't pre-wrath, they do occur now against equal level mobs at a rate of 6% (not completely verified, but with reasonable certainty). Also, glancing blows (against boss level mobs) deal between 70 and 80% of normal damage at an even distribution and can be, for calculation purposes, just assumed to be a 75% reduction. A 24% change to incur a 75% reduction in damage (on average) results in a 6% loss in damage (assuming you have an otherwise 100% hit chance on your attack table).

Brasou · 12/14/08, 3:35 PM

Hey, I was wondering if anybody knows how much armor bosses have now, before any kind of debuffs. I can't seem to find it anywhere even though I thought I saw it once.

Enova · 12/14/08, 8:59 PM

Originally Posted by Latito

While I fail to bring a reference (the thread was deleted in the class mechanic cleanup).. Glancing blows occur at a 24% rate against boss level mobs. Also, while they didn't pre-wrath, they do occur now against equal level mobs at a rate of 6% (not completely verified, but with reasonable certainty). Also, glancing blows (against boss level mobs) deal between 70 and 80% of normal damage at an even distribution and can be, for calculation purposes, just assumed to be a 75% reduction. A 24% change to incur a 75% reduction in damage (on average) results in a 6% loss in damage (assuming you have an otherwise 100% hit chance on your attack table).

Vulajin brought this up already, but I will update right now. I did mention it was an estimate value, though.

Originally Posted by Brasou

Hey, I was wondering if anybody knows how much armor bosses have now, before any kind of debuffs. I can't seem to find it anywhere even though I thought I saw it once.

General stuff paragraph, last line. 13083 armor all across the board.

Njald · 12/20/08, 1:01 AM

In response to this post
Is melee hit cap really 9%?
perhaps the first post in this "working theorycraft" thread should open up for the posibility that melee hit for dual wield is also subject the newly found "1% hit bonus".
The old asumption was 9 / 28 % for single / dual.
It is not farfecthed to asume that now when we tested the 9 so much that we are ready to reduce it to 8 then do we need more than the linked post to adjust our value for dualwield to 27% va bosslevel mobs?

Enova · 12/20/08, 2:19 AM

Originally Posted by Njald

In response to this post
Is melee hit cap really 9%?
perhaps the first post in this "working theorycraft" thread should open up for the posibility that melee hit for dual wield is also subject the newly found "1% hit bonus".
The old asumption was 9 / 28 % for single / dual.
It is not farfecthed to asume that now when we tested the 9 so much that we are ready to reduce it to 8 then do we need more than the linked post to adjust our value for dualwield to 27% va bosslevel mobs?

It is possible that this is indeed the case, but seeing as it is still very unreasonable to assume anyone will ever successfully reach the dual wield hit cap, I don't see how 1% will ever matter. I will however update the post to reflect the new working theory.

Shraal · 01/06/09, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Enova

[...]

Hit rating: reduces your chance to miss your target. The current chances to miss a raid boss (and as such the hit rating gaps to be filled) are as follows:

- 8% (264 hit rating for melee classes) for ranged, all special melee (yellow) attacks, as well as all attacks performed with a single weapon equipped; all + hit talents lower this gap by 32 hit rating for every 1%.
- 27% for melee auto attacks while dual wielding; this hit deficit is unreasonable to assume will be capped. You still want the 8% hit cap on the specials, and there is nothing wrong with going over that as a dual wielder.
- 14% (460 hit rating) for special melee (yellow) attacks performed while specced for Titan's Grip. This can be lowered to only 361 hit rating by picking up Precision.
- 17% (446 hit rating) for spell casting classes. All + hit talents lower this cap by 26 hit rating for every 1% chance.

Pets now share the owner's hit ratings. Also, talents increasing hit chance also affect the pets.

[...]

I wonder, is the 14% miss chance for special melee attacks performed while specced for Titan's Grip correct? If the base miss chance is 8% and TG adds 5% to the miss chance mustn't it be 13%?

PSGarak · 01/06/09, 2:42 AM

There's more information on the thread on melee hit chance. The current theory, which has partial data backing it, says that TG resets, rather than adjusts, your hit chance. IE, rather than misschance += 5%, it's misschance = 14%. Whenever they changed the melee hit chance, they seem to have forgetten to tell TG. The question will shortly be academic anyways, as the penalty is slated to be removed.