Xizorz

If you don't have the rage to keep both going you are probably doing something wrong or have terrible gear. But use WW first with a 2her or BT if you DW.

Cleave is a miserable dmg/rage. Either heroic strike, or hamstring spam. I've actually given up imp OP with my latest talent spec, so I dont switch to battle stance at all.

There are ways to manage your threat, and use heroic strike effectively. SS aggrowipe anyone?

http://ctprofiles.net/298322

 

Yojimboo

Hadn't thought of an SS aggrowipe =)

Should be almost as fun as eating wing buffets and dodging shadow flame =D

http://ctprofiles.net/482734

 

◊ Kalman

If you're alliance, I can do you one better.

SS a paladin. When the paladin is OOM or after they burn LOH, have them DI you and SS themself back up. DI is an aggro wipe. You reset your aggro, and Mr. Paladin gets 2800 mana.

http://mmorchive.net

The WoW forums, explained:

 

Xizorz

Wow, I never thought of this.

(Insert random sentence about EZmode here).

I just wish tranquil air was usuable with WF, would go a long way towards my aggro issues.

http://ctprofiles.net/298322

 

• Napstitch

I think I'm having some OpenOffice lookup issues, but one thing I did notice about the sheet is your addition of crit to the 'White Hit Mod' formula. Currently, crit is added as just 'B35/100' (straight crit%) but doesn't include the crit chance modification of weapon skill vs mob defense. Not a huge difference, admittedly, but if you're making that adjustment for dodge chance, might as well for your crit chance.

I hadn't progressed any further on wading through your calculations, but this might be an issue with the 2H White Hit Mod and Yellow Hit Mod as well.

Otherwise, looks like a really nice spreadsheet. Thanks for the work on this.

 

dfinberg

Because most raiding pallies really need 2800 mana :)

The problem is most guilds are short on locks, and can't ankh on alliance, so most SS are actually saved for a priest/pally to rez on wipes if there is any kind of a runback. But that is a clever idea.

1 year old twins means no WoW for me. But you just wait, as soon as they get a little older it will be my own stable of gold farmers.

 

Yojimboo

I have no idea what DI does...does it kill the pally to give you a bubble or something?

http://ctprofiles.net/482734

 

◊ Kalman

Immediately after a LOH, most pallies really do want that 2800 mana. :)

As to rez on wipes - it isn't an issue in BWL, since the only fight he needs it on is Nef, and we have 15 minutes to run back anyway. We usually have 4-5 locks, too, making it even less of an issue.

And yeah, Yojimboo, DI is the paladin equivalent wipe-prevention to ankh - the paladin sacrifices themself to provide the target with a 3 minute bubble. While the bubble is up, the target cannot move, cast, attack, or be attacked, and is out of combat.

http://mmorchive.net

The WoW forums, explained:

 

Deathwing

It's added in the "Net Crit" field. Thanks for going through the calculation, second set of eyes is appreciated.

 

◊ Fellwraith

With 3 talent points in improved cleave, it does more damage per rage than hamstring. If you're 2h fury you may be looking for places to put points and cleave isn't a bad place. It's not instant like hamstring and it has innate hate which are the primary drawbacks to me.

 

• Napstitch

Ah, I see that now, thanks. However, the "Net Crit" field lacks a term for the expected mob's defense. My crit% should go down if I change the mob level from 61 to 63, instead it currently stays constant. You've added 0.04% crit for each weapon skill the player gains, but you don't subtract 0.04% for each point of mob defense above "equal level" 300 skill. Something akin to subtracting 0.2*(mob_lvl - player_lvl) should fix it. Thanks again for the work.

 

Xizorz

Hmm, I was under the impression that pallies were the low cost steady healing type that rarely went OOM (unless you LoH anyway). Can you click off the 3 minute bubble?

http://ctprofiles.net/298322

 

◊ Kalman

They are, in fact, the low cost steady healing type. But LoH is a valuable tool, and our paladins don't ignore it. And once you're burnt down to zero from the LoH, the question becomes - why not? All you're losing is a reagent, and some buffs.

(You can click off the 3 minute bubble.)

http://mmorchive.net

The WoW forums, explained:

 

Celandro

Minor Haste enchant (and all other haste enchants) are not working. It should work out to 1% increase in white damage, 1% increase in cleave/heroic strike and some bonus damage from 1% more rage and is arguably as good as 15agi.

+15agi enchant should be added (to show what happens when dpsing with your tank weapon

Esk right claw should try to model the proc. Its 1ppm and is up 5/60 = 8.33% of the time (actually closer to 13% due to instants and flurry but this is minimum). When it is up, esk right claw is 30% faster so average speed is 0.08333 * (1.5/1.3) + 0.91667 * 1.5 = 1.47 48 * 1.5 /1.47 = 49.0 dps weapon at 1.47 speed. I see that kiss of the spider is modeled, so perhaps it just needs a bit more generic code. In general, a lot of the formulas seem rather long. Perhaps seperating them into multiple sub calcs on a hidden sheet would be helpful and reduce errors.

I didn't have enough time to analyze the heroic strike damage but it needs to take into account that there are no glancing blows and only 5.6% miss rate.

Mod Flurry Chance is too high. It should not be possible to get a 1.

The biggest issue I have with the spreadsheet is that it doesn't model what happens in real fights. Boss gets to 22% or so and I pop Diamond Flask + Death Wish + Recklessness and spam executes. Assuming I don't pull agro and die, stacking cooldowns amplifies dps dramtically. I fully realize this is difficult to model and sadly have no good answers for this.

Very good work in general though.

 

Deathwing

I'll add the haste enchants and agi enchants in the next release. I'll probably model eskhandar's, it's still not a great weapon.

I believe HS does take into account no glancing blows and lowered miss rate.

Why is Mod Fluffy Chance too high? I agree it is impossible to get a flurry chance just from white crits(unless your crit chance is 100). But why can't you from the white crits and yellow crits?

It's near impossible to model a real fight accurately. I tried to get a close as possible so that people could use this to decide which gear to use. If my spreadsheet says conqueror's is better than legguards of the fallen crusader, I would hope that translates to real WoW as well. Of course, that's an easy example where every stat is better on the conqueror's leggings, but you get the point.

Would someone actually use Diamond Flask on a boss fight? I thought it was terrible sustained DPS because you have to keep it on the whole fight.

 

Celandro

Diamond Flask is 12.5str on average but on a 3min fight its 25str avg and best of all it stacks with death wish and execute so its effect is amplified. 75str for 1 min is pretty nice for a level 50 blue trinket. The same reasoning makes all other activated trinkets better on bosses than straight averages would suggest.

As far as mod flurry chance, my understanding is that it represents the % of time that flurry is up. This can not be 100% by definition. I dont have the formula on me but basically you have to figure out how many bonus swings per minute you are getting which help keep flurry up more. I'm sure someone else has the correct formula

As far as modeling eskhandar, it is an excellent agro weapon and is approximately equal to hakkar loot for dps. I actually do use it for level 60-62 trash mobs due to very high speed giving me a higher chance of getting 2 or 3 executes off before the mob is dead instead of 1 or 2. Faster weapons have lower std dev for rage gen. Similar arguements help explain why +hit is better than mathematically expected. Warriors need very consistant rage generation to maximize dps. Any rage spikes or troughs can really screw up your sustained dps. Fast mhs also let you burn off rage faster if you happen to get stunned and hit 100 rage (brood power green). There are 2 haste procs, 1 haste trinket and 1 juju haste that I can think of currently, Blizzard may very well add more as its an interesting mechanic. Modeling it may be more important if a haste proc weapon drops in Naxx that we don't know about.

You may want to add std dev calcs to figure out how often abilities can really be used. You can't just assume consistant rage.

I don't know if you are interested in modelling threat per second for dps spec warriors. Knowing how to maximize our agro when needed for tanking is useful.

Either way, i highly enjoy this kind of thing, can be contacted at myname @gmail.com if you are interested in getting help or perhaps turning this particular spreadsheet into an addon (that could link into real time damage meters to avoid messy stddev calcs + other unmodelable things such as out of range). If I had more time I'd have already written it but I'm certainly interested in testing/debugging such a thing.

 

Deathwing

I was under the impression that non-passive trinkets were bad on long fights because then you had to eat the cooldown as well. I thought they were better for short fights because you can pop them and then put your DFT back in for the next fight.

STR has no effect on execute btw.

I'm not going to go into standard deviation calcs. That's way too much work, and excel really isn't built for that.

As for threat, I think Kenco's mod does that already.

Yes, flurry chance represents the chance that your swing will be flurried. Could you present some math that proves you can't have 100% flurry? If you have enough instant swings(spamming WW, BT, and Hamstring), should fill in the gaps that white doesn't. This doesn't account for overlap on the yello crits though. Having trouble with that.

 

◊ Shalas

You can't have 100% flurry unless you have 100% crit, as otherwise there's a chance that all of the last three swings didn't crit.

 

Deathwing

Flurry can proc of instant hits...

 

Moleva

That may be so, but in your model, all you're doing is increasing the size of your exponent ie, how many swings are you are taking in your 3 swing cycle.

It will help you approach the 1 mark faster, but you still have a chance that none of your abilities crit to keep flurry rolling if your crit rate is below %100.

 

◊ Shalas

And they can fail to crit if you don't have a 100% crit rate.

 

Deathwing

hmmm, ok, what's a better way to model this then?

 

• frmorrison

Other hastes are the counter weight (3 to haste), and the haste on gloves enchant (1 to haste).

 

Thorb