Those graphs look right. Not sure how to interpret them either, other than the obvious conclusion that it's better to balance out your stats than focus on one. But who needed a graph for that?

As for ratios...do you mean you'd like the slope plotted as well?

The abilites were HS+BT+whirlwind+execute, talents, regular 34/17 PRE-TBC, it was set to a DW profile, unless there's a specific option for that.

I raid with 2h fury and with imp slam now. I'm not sure how you'll model this but there are times when slam will conflict with the global cooldown, so you're better off using HS as the next rage dump.

Anytime you use your instants, BT or WW, and the 1.5s global cooldown will carry on over on the way to the next swing so that your slam cast time + human reaction + lag will make Slam hit at the same time as the flurried weapon swing will finish, it's better to just queue up HS for the on next attack. So, I wouldn't exactly leave out HS's +157 damage.

I suppose it wouldn't be a problem without flurry, but 3.6s weapons(most common) with 2% haste will give about 2.7s flurried attack speeds.


Yes, it resets the weapon swing timer and yes, it does have a global cooldown attached so you can't chain it back to back. But it's still better than HS as a rage dump most of the time. I'm alliance without windfury so it's still better than hamstring. The faster it casts, the sooner you can get back to your white melee swings and the easier you can fit it within flurried attack speeds after a swing.

I've tried the HS + hamstring spam timing the global cooldowns to not conflict with BT/WW and I just don't build enough rage to sustain that in addition to BT/WW, so I have no idea how well that would work instead.

You forgot to turn on hamstring spam, this helps abuse fast offhands proccing overpowers for slow mainhands. Even without that, Gressil/HC just comes out ahead on the spreadsheet. The reason THC does so well in MH is because of weapon speed during execute range. Turn on execute switch, you'll see that gap widen considerably.

hm tried to put my current lvl60 Fury Warrior in your spreadsheet, im currently wielding MH CrulShoruk with Dragonfang Blade Offhand.
according to your spreadsheet calculations, the setup i was going for: CTS in MH with Crul in Off, is worse than my current setup! (by 1 dps or something)

correct me if im wrong, but i always thought it was the other way arround.

oh btw, kickass work on the spreadsheet :)

Well I never use hamstring while I dps, but you saying Gressil/HC is definitly the best DW sword combo?

What about Slayer's Crest vs Kiss of the Spider?

I'm curious about some results I'm getting.

I have been using claw of the blake drake mainhand with a deathbringer off-hand for a while now, while using sacrificial gauntlets (str). I just got a second deathbringer last night so I could take advantage of edgemasters again (haste) and also the extra flurry charge with equal weapon speeds.

However when I change out deathbringer mainhand and edgemasters, I get almost identical dps to using the claw/sacrificial. Is the crit/ap on the claw really making up that much difference. That'd also mean that the claw/db/sacrifical combo is best on mobs of the same level.

Yes, according the to the spreadsheet Gressil/THC is the best combo (it certainly is the best for Rogues).

Slayer's vs KotS depends on your gear. For some Slayer's is stronger, for others Kiss is better. There are few certainies when comparing items when you have different levels of gear.

Yes stats do make a fairly large differenece and having 2 statless weapons hurts, also deathbringer offhand is quite innefficient, for example i have Brutality Blade in my offhand, upgrading that to CTS yields just a 1 dps increase, and Crul there is just an increase of 2 dps. Stats > all in offhand.

I also switch between flameguards + claw and edgemasters + deathbringer, there isn't a huge difference for me at the moment. However as your gear increase Edgemaster's yield more and more dps and when (like im waiting for) you get a stat heavy weapon that works with Edgemaster's like CTS or Crul they are by far the better choice.

Thanks.

Solid is mostly right. I think the one part where speed counts is offhand speed. Faster weapons allow you to trigger more overpowers, which isn't a source of dps to be overlooked.


As for Deathbringer, I don't have any reliable proc information on that weapon, but from my testing with it, I know it doesn't go off a lot. Stat weapons are definitely better than proc weapons unless it's specific cases like Untamed Blade, Halberd of Smiting, and Crusader.

Yeah, just ran through the sheet using my CHT in the offhand and I get a whole different set of results than expected.

looks like on a boss with these as my options:

Gloves:
-edgemasters w/ haste
-sacrificial w/ str

Weapons
-Deathbringer x2 w/ crusader
-Claw of the Black Drake w/ crusader
-CHT w/ strength

The highest dps configuration is actually sacrificial w/ the Claw/CHT setup... this really surprised me honestly as I figured the dps loss from CHT wouldn't make up for the lack of stats. I figured the claw would be a pretty close tossup after the +7 skill increase.

The one great part of having DW DB is the burst damage is very nice in PvP. I ran DW pvp last night for the first time in a long time (normally I use my sulfuras) and did extremely well. It might have been a fluke but it looked like it went better than it used to. Since the swing timer stays the same for them if they both crit, it'll be about what I crit for on sulfuras if not more. I consistantly crit on clothies for about 1600 w/ sulf (high end about 1900-2k) and DB so far I can get about 1500 or so but havne't spent much time. (why did i start talking about pvp again.. oh yeah.. bored at work :P)

In summary, looks like I'll be dusting off my old CHT for boss fights.

It is

A little confused about the optimal use of the execute switch. Are you supposed to stay DW while in execute range or use a single weapon?

I normally use 2x GM Longswords. Should I be swapping in my Widows Remorse for MH and empty OH, or Shield OH for execute? My only other faster weapons are some non-enchanted GM Daggers.

Is it worth picking up something like an Ibilis or other ~1.6 weapons for execute swapping? Swapping my OH GMLS for an Ibilis for straight damage looks like a very small upgrade by itself so I’ve been avoiding it so far.

EDIT: In case it's relevent I run about 1100ap, 30crit 13hit unbuffed.

The way I understand the execute switch is mainly for 2H user/slow MH users. If you are using a big 2H, you will get more executes with a fast 1H (and nothing in the OH due to the DW miss issue).

You may do better using Widow in the MH <20% since it is fast; the spreadsheet that time I looked at it didn't account for using the OH during execute, so I don't know if you will get an accurate result.

If you have the hit gear, I would keep the OH GM sword during execute time.

If you're DWing before, the sheet keeps DWing during execute range even if you use the switch. So if have Kingsfall selected for execute switch, you would use 2x GM LS for 80%, and then Kingsfall/GMLS for 20%.

Optimal use of execute switch would be dual 1.3 speed weapons.. realisticically dual 1.5 speed weapons, followed by dual 1.6 speed weapons, 1.5 mh 1.6 oh, 1.5mh 1.7oh, etc. Both weapons should be 1.5 * 1.3 = 1.95 speed or faster (although if you have 3 1% haste enchants 2.0 speed will work) assuming flurry will be up 95+% of the time. And as Ive said before, the faster the better (although the spreadsheet wont tell you that). As a rule of thumb, you want the highest dps/stat combination you can get with both weapons 1.9 speed or faster. Sure dual julies daggers with enough epic dps armor would work just fine for execute spam (and probably better than dual gm longswords honestly) but higher dps is better so long as you can execute every 1.5s.

Assuming you are still GM, dual swiftblades would be best, or just take your GM daggers, enchant them with +4/5 weapon damage if you cant afford crusader, and put 3% haste or 2%haste and 15agi on your dps gear. Swap them in for execute spam.

Getting an iblis for your offhand during normal range and swap to mh during execute range would also work quite well.

Is this standard deviation again? Just checking, because if there's a problem with my spreadsheet, I want to fix it. Having trouble figuring out the standard deviation thing. A chance that one of your executes won't have enough rage to fire goes against the whole design of the spreadsheet(averaging out dps over long period of time).

Switch them around next time! I think I'm going to add a OH weapon field for execute switch, becuase a lot people like to use Slow MH/Fast OH when DWing, which makes it really convenient to just switch them around at execute time.

Since I don't really want to start a new thread and I can't get this spreadsheet to cooperate, I'll just throw it out for general opinions:

I'm a human fury warrior, currently I'm main handing Vis'Kag (lol) and offhanding Maladath. I've got enough dkp to get whatever weapon I want and in terms of progress we should have thaddius down either this week or next. I obviously want to stick to swords and maces for the +skill but would AQR+Maladath give me better results than say Castigator+Iblis? My +hit is a bit sub-par (only 9%) so an additional +2% from Castigator+Iblis would certainly be welcome, but 309 1h swords allows me to pretty much top all damage meters that aren't ranged favored or aggro sensitive even with my current setup.

Also as an aside, assuming castigator+iblis, if i loot iblis first, which 2 of the 3 weapons that i would have (Vis'Kag, Maladath, Iblis) would yield the best results? In which hand?

All help appreciated! ^_^

If your OH is able to generate the 10 rage every 1.5s even including misses/glancing blows there is no reason to switch. Thats impossible with current itemization of course so switching helps.

Your hatchet with flurry up is swinging every 2.6/1.3 = 2s Your Iblis would swing every 1.6/1.3 = 1.23s.
Assuming every glancing blow, hit and crit generates enough rage to execute, and offhands never generate enough rage to execute (not exactly true but close enough) and you have +30% crit, +13 hit and +7skill. Also assume we are generating 20 rage per second with iblis and 21 rage per second with Hatchet (due to higher dps) if you never missed (bout equal to 17/18 rage per second on average) you get:
11.32 miss + 5.32 dodge = 16.64% no hit (2.76% double no hit, 13.88% single no hit) 83.36 hit (we will simplify and say no triple misses)
Hatchet:
Executes use 21 * 2 = 42 rage on average and hit for (600 + (32 * 15)) * (.3 * 2.2 + .7) = 1468.8
Execute every 2s 83.36% of the time
Execute every 4s 13.88% of the time
Execute every 6s 2.76% of the time
Average execute time: 2.388s
Execute dps: 615

Iblis: (Note this is a bit more complicated since Iblis swings faster than every 1.5s )
Exeucte uses 20 * 1.5 = 30 rage on average and hits for (600 + 20 * 15) * (.3 * 2.2 + .7) = 1224
Execute every 1.5s 83.36% of the time
Execute every 1.5s due to a miss + swing in under 1.5s 21.95% * 13.88% = 3.05% of the time
Execute every 1.98s on average 10.83% of the time (2.46 - 1.5)/2 + 1.5
Execute every 3.075s 2.76% of the time (1.23 * 2.5) (most unsure about this number)
Average execute time: 1.596s
Execute dps: 767

Thats a pretty big difference. Of course I didnt take into account AC on execute so reduce by 20% and your rage gen will vary, but the average execute time is pretty accurate assuming that a glance from iblis is generating enough rage to execute. If rage gen is lower than I stated, the numbers start skewing even more towards Iblis since that first 600 damage from execute for 10 rage is so good.

Deathwing: note that the above method can be used to approximate std dev on rage gen and you could probably make it more accurate with offhand info.

Yes.. those dastardly misses strike again..

See my handling of the situation in the above post. Its a bit imperfect but gets a higher than 1.5 speed execute time for any weapon available today.

Id guess Iblis/Maladath would work best just from sheer dps difference and viskag sucking. It also gives you a fast MH for execute spam. If you are going to get 2 weapons Id guess AQR/Iblis or dual lolproc servoarms..